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Messages - casinokoi

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Pond Chat / Great report found on pond liners / polyurea
« on: January 03, 2017, 05:02:35 PM »
Leaks Leaks Leaks with liners gun bad lead me to research pond coatings. Many make false claims. My daughter is a marine biologist student at Oxford Univ. Aqtual lining used in public aquariums is called polyurea. This is Spray-on Lining & Coatings. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B81ZhL42Eo8Wdm8tM1BhNm1BXzA/view?usp=sharing
I read and followed this study's advise. No more leaks... My finished job photo attached! YAAAAAY!

Tried attaching photos & the procedure but file was too big. But if enough of you want this I'll break it into sections:
1- Drain & prep
2- Applying polyurea in black & white & silver colors
3- Details - A, B, C, etc

2
THE SOLUTION PREVENT WATER BUGS OR ANY INSECT FROM CHEWING THRU EPDM OR ANY RUBBERIZED LINER: If you think bugs eat thru liners you should see what piranhas do! My son is in this business & used teflon impregnated anodized coating fro SLC. most of his jobs landed around Dallas Fort Worth area: I admit I'm somewhat biased on Spray-Lining & Coatings Pond solutions because he contracts with SLC. But if you're near Dallas World Aquarium, Children's Aquarium at Fair Park, or member in Austin Pond Society, teflon impregnated anodized coating is throughout some exhibits.  I used Spray-Lining & Coatings polyurea Koi Pond Kits for basic Seal Tite but some ponds have piranhas for example displayed publicly. That spray-lining or Seal Tite coating called polyurea wasn't expensive for public facilities with that teflon material in it. I uploaded a photos. Forgive my bias towards my little (big) son's jobs but Spray-Lining & Coatings DOES make a Seal Tite with that teflon stuff in it. It works! 

3
My koi and pond maniacs GROUP and I proved this. Simplest easiest method to build a Koi Pond:    You dig your hole, shaped as you’d wish. Pack the soil with tamping post or heavy roller, then apply a Lining or Coating. With hard clay a DIY polyurea penetrates only at 4-12% of its thickness. Using 8% average, at 100 mils (under 1/8 inch) gets 8 mils penetration or adhesion. 8 mils or 8/1000 of an inch is like a thin coat of paint, ergo your retaining wall is a thin, semi-flexible shell. Remaining 92 mils remains more flexible. For small ponds under 1600 gallons or low walls under 12 inches that will suffice.  More water, bigger, deeper ponds require thicker lining. This creates a thicker shell, necessary to remain without shifting over time. Heavier items like boulders or statues will, “settle into” polyurea verses resting, “on top” of this lining. Since it’s polyurea is semi elastic, slight elongation occurs with more weight (PSI). Our group has 23 members now. 15 of us did this, most needed help of others but a few of us like my wife & kid (19) and I bugged nobody. Our main one done this way is 6300 gallons average 1 to 3 feet depth.
                                             
Is Geotextile necessary?  For low clay %, sandy soils or very wet, rainy climates, woven or EPDM geotextile may be included with packages.  Excess coating thickness (we all use Seal Tite), while more rigid allows more soil shifting but woven geotextile costs less.  Geotextile’s elasticity and elongation is much lower than polyurea. Therefore harder shell is with woven geotextile, more flexible shell is with pure polyurea.  If geotextile is EPDM, this is more rigid than polyurea alone but is more flexible than woven.     
      WOVEN   GEOTEXTILE  vs   EPDM AS GEOTEXTILE is a choice.
                                                             
Woven  thickness is approximately 10 to 20 mils. It’s a hard plastic-like poly with very minimal elasticity.  Geotextile costs more and adds complexity to the job but it adds strength to the structure. EPDM  is 30 to 50 mils. Vendors we used are below. All those had at least one person who knew what we needed.

* While this advice presumes plumbing, filtration, drainage details are known or to be decided, it’s also assumed that use of simplified, top entries serve best as lowest cost startup systems.
 
How to apply: Depends what brand but Rhino Linings sells a spray-on cartridge system, I doubt it can be rolled on. They have applicators but you need one that doesn't do just truck beds, like a body shop. You want an actual coatings applicator (jobs@rhinolinings.com). Spray-Lining & Coatings' Seal Tite is advised to be sprayed, with loaned or included spray-rigs; bigger area requires larger guns or pumped spray systems. Rolling is possible with heavy-made, aluminum, yoke/bracket framed, and low profile bearing rollers.  Mixing and details are simplified in directions (Service@Spray-Lining.com). Specialty Products, Inc has big spray rigs for bigger jobs with professional applicators (info@specialty-products.com). Arma Coatings was used and came out nice on a smaller 600 gallon pond (info@armacoatings.com)... out of the 15 of us, 8 used Seal Tite DIY deals & 1 used an SLC dealer. Pros are about $14 to $20/ sq ft and DIY ran (me) about $3/ sq ft.

Job time after pond shape was created and compacted: Mixing, general preparation, Spraying (rolling) requires approximately 20 minutes per 120 square feet. Geotextile laying range is similar, if used. Cure time range is 8 hours to 96 hours. Depends on temperature, humidity, thickness and whether or not geotextile is included.
   
In photos you'll see the my diagram of how (my) polyurea works with ground shifting.
UUUUUGGGHH This was work to do, I hope a few of you may use our success!!!

4
Pond Chat / Re: POND LEAKING ISSUE
« on: August 04, 2016, 05:10:40 PM »
Has anyone here coated gunite with polyurea. If so, can you clarify why? Thanking!

5
Pond Chat / Re: POND LEAKING ISSUE
« on: July 14, 2016, 02:31:57 PM »
Not sure if my reply to you, Mr. Pery, was posted. So to iterate: That may be true, i.e. some advertiser of a Doctor or investor, not sure but the advise was excellant!  {nono} took photo of mine today- done with that polyurea. It wouldn't save- I'll try later on, maybe. 

6
Pond Chat / POND LEAKING ISSUE
« on: July 13, 2016, 02:27:48 PM »
This article was by Dr. David Pitkethly in Seattle, Washington, USA.
  http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-david-pitkethly-222vx

Researching leak causes well, I learned: Patching leaks in any cement or lining, regardless if its plastic, polypropylene, EPDM, rubber, cement, gunite, epoxy, wood, etc cannot work! That's because with just one leak it would work. A pond that's noticeably leaky won't be a small leak. "Pond Leaking" is rarely one big hole or crack either; if it was other cracks wouldn't form. Almost impossible; leaks are always from several locations. Leaks are usually caused from more than one reason. A leak always means "leaks", that is plural. This is learned from many hours at IPPCA show & Irrigation Show Long Beach Convention Center, Long Beach, California & 8 varios pond configurations I visited.

my family & friends love our cascade leading into the koi pond. The cascade is very tall so current is very strong as water hits the rocks. This was noisy and sounds with motion from rocks broke through the plastic lining.

Our complaints about the new plastic lining were not fixed by the installer. Did research on plastic vs rubber vs EPDM vs spray-lined polyurea. The polyurea spray-lining coatings reviews better than any other pond liner alternatives. Spray-Lining Coating professionals who spray pond liners are few & far between & reeeeeeal expensive. Still soft, flexible, spray-on lining of polyurea was coating required to seal the koi pond area (over 850 sq ft) and attempt stopping that noise.
Regardless, professional polyurea installers are about $20 per square foot so I located the only true polyurea DIY spray-on lining, coating for ponds & waterscapes at Spray-Lining and Coatings http://www.spray-lining.com/pond/ ....

Apparently "professionals" include Line-X bedliner dealers or dealers of Rhino Linings. Most are automobile repair shops with line-X or car/truck dealers using Rhino-Lining, with basically truck bed spray-Lining training. Not one bedliner shop made any logical quote to Seal my pond Tight, correctly. Other applicators were a little less expensive, pond coating experienced but all had to travel, that brought up cost & we couldn't get a fair quote. The alternative was an SLC, DIY spray-lining koi pond kit I custom ordered by the sq ft. SLC loaned me the spray equipment & were really available for support. The support guy knew my issues exactly The polyuea is actually called Seal Tite by Spray-Lining & Coatings www.spray-lining.com.

Seal Tite corrected all leaks. Its permanent for all practical purposes, good for at least 20 years now. The preparation – cleaning the pond and washing rocks, SLC directions were simple & logical. Rocks were coated with SLC-114-AS, this flexible, clear spray-lining; we fully coated each (of 22 rocks). The bottom of the pond is now lined in black and the sides are silver/ gray. the sides and bottom now have soft, flexible texture and are one eighth inch minimum thickness.
SLC recommended 1/8 inch thick online. Kevin Root at an SLC distributer, Vancouver Lining and Coating said thicker will slow cascade's noise from that vibration. Teenage sons prepped- that was that hardest part, wife & me sprayed the Seal Tite. The noise insulation issue aside, if you’re careful with SLC’s tech support, listen to details, sealing various shapes of ponds with this DIY system, your pond should not leak regardless of currents, flow or friction.

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