Messages

1

Pond Chat / Re: Butterfly... get lost

« on: July 02, 2007, 10:19:50 AM »

I really didn't think I was being that impolite.  I only expressed my sadness.  Sorry it came off like it did.

The whole environmental debate can get somewhat distorted.  I know the earth will go on regardless.  It really comes down to human desires (aka politics).   I would personally prefer to live in a world with all of the species I have come to love and appreciate.  Many others live so remote from the natural world that they simply don't care, and if a species goes extinct or a habitat is destroyed they simply don't feel any sadness.  They will be perfectly fine with whatever makes it through this current extinction event.  Of course one person's killing of caterpillars will not matter one bit in the grand scheme of things.   I guess I just wanted to make a point that we (as gardeners) can make a difference in our own worlds.

I'll stop now, as I know we have ventured off-topic.  I just wanted to clarify my intentions. 

P.S. I, too, rejoice over the return of the brown pelican, bald eagle, peregrine falcon, osprey and many others.  Too ofter the environmental community can't enjoy it's successes (and the ones mentioned above were almost entirely due to the banning off DDT and other organophosphate/organochlorine pesticides).  But, daily I see habitat losses in my county, and while we can't stop farmers from desiring to maximize their profit through subdivision and development, we can try to do our own little bit in our own yards.

2

Pond Chat / Re: Butterfly... get lost

« on: July 02, 2007, 06:27:30 AM »

So in one garden forum, you have people planting passion vines for the specific butterflies they attract and another garden forum has people that just want to kill them. 

We  have so SCREWED up this land, so reduced the wildlife and the habitats they depend on, we have replaced woods with grassy deserts, we have destroyed BEAUTIFUL cypress swamps to provide mulch for people's azaleas, we have drained other swamps and filled them in for more houses with sterile backyards.  It is really sad.  Many people are creating wildlife gardens to help give a little back to the nature that sustains us all.  It really saddens me when I hear about people that can't live with a little loss (less passion vine leaves for a few weeks/months) in the interest of helping out our NATIVE wildlife.   

BTW, the leaves will come back.  Caterpillers (typically) will not kill the plant that sustains it. 

3

Pond Chat / "natural pond"

« on: June 06, 2007, 09:57:32 AM »

It was suggested that I repost this here (more traffic).

Hi Folks,

So, yes, I was naive and dug a hole (it grew to 17' x 14') built up shelves and a lip and figured, okay, get a liner and a pump and you are good to go.  HA!  When I went to buy the liner and pump he didn't have the size I needed so it was off to the Internet and the land of confusion.  I guess that's good in that I haven't bought anything yet and am now taking the time to learn learn learn.  My main goals for the pond are bird bath (running water waterfall into a 2" deep rocky beach for bird bathing), a 2-3" edge with rocks/sand for frogs/amphibs/birds to have access, a place to grow plants I haven't grown before, a place to let the frogs and toads eat bugs and breed, and thats about it.  I'm not tied to having fish.  If fish eat frog eggs then I'm totally willing to forgo the fish and use mosquito dunks.  I've talked to a local pond construction guy (he's built over 200 ponds) and he's almost got me convinced I need to add a skimmer and biofilter.  He's got a kit he's willing to sell me for $1800 (throwing in construction help - mostly for the connections and such).  Of course when I heard $1800 I staggered back a little.  Here's what I was prepared to do.

I don't know if we can list companies on this forum, but hoping we can, I'll continue.

I was going to get a 25' x 30' liner from bestnest at $400 (delivered), a Pondmaster Pond-Mag 36 Pump for $174, and and some kind of biological filter falls type unit (why do they very from < $200  to > $400...it seems like a glorified plastic bucket to me ;-).   All told about $700-$900.  I was going to paint a milk crate black and put the pump on top of it so it doesn't suck up gunk from the bottom.  I was even thinking about getting rotorflush $25? for the pump prefilter to keep frog eggs & tadpoles from getting sucked into it.  (p.s. not much internet chat about that product..anyone got any experience?).   I was going to have lots of plants to hide the pump & pumbing.   I was kinda hoping that was all the hardware I needed.  In the last couple days I've been scared that I was going to end up with a LOT of pond maintenance issues.  I do have a river birch tree overhaning the pond which will drop leaves.  I was prepared for skimming them out after work- should only take 5 minutes or less.  Since it's a natural pond (with no fish) do I really need it to be crystal clear?  Won't the plants clean the water and create some like of equilibrium?   I know I am naive in all this so please be gentle.  Do any of you have a pond without fish?  Do I really need to spend $1800 to have a pond I will enjoy and not curse?  Thanks in advance.  - Steve

p.s. From the last few days of web surfing it seems that the natural pond concept is more popular in the UK.  Many of the hits are from UK sites.  I think there are probably less people in the US building a pond for frogs and wildlife here.  Most of the pond forum sites I've seen are pretty koi/goldfish oriented.  That could be why I'm hearing that you need a skimmer, bottom drain, filter, etc....Fish make things more complicated I guess.  Another question i just thought off....bottom gunk...as long as it isn't fish waste, why is it bad for pond wildlife. 

4

Pond Construction & Filtration / "natural pond"

« on: June 06, 2007, 06:09:22 AM »

Hi Folks,

So, yes, I was naive and dug a hole (it grew to 17' x 14') built up shelves and a lip and figured, okay, get a liner and a pump and you are good to go.  HA!  When I went to buy the liner and pump he didn't have the size I needed so it was off to the Internet and the land of confusion.  I guess that's good in that I haven't bought anything yet and am now taking the time to learn learn learn.  My main goals for the pond are bird bath (running water waterfall into a 2" deep rocky beach for bird bathing), a 2-3" edge with rocks/sand for frogs/amphibs/birds to have access, a place to grow plants I haven't grown before, a place to let the frogs and toads eat bugs and breed, and thats about it.  I'm not tied to having fish.  If fish eat frog eggs then I'm totally willing to forgo the fish and use mosquito dunks.  I've talked to a local pond construction guy (he's built over 200 ponds) and he's almost got me convinced I need to add a skimmer and biofilter.  He's got a kit he's willing to sell me for $1800 (throwing in construction help - mostly for the connections and such).  Of course when I heard $1800 I staggered back a little.  Here's what I was prepared to do.

I don't know if we can list companies on this forum, but hoping we can, I'll continue.

I was going to get a 25' x 30' liner from bestnest at $400 (delivered), a Pondmaster Pond-Mag 36 Pump for $174, and and some kind of biological filter falls type unit (why do they very from < $200  to > $400...it seems like a glorified plastic bucket to me ;-).   All told about $700-$900.  I was going to paint a milk crate black and put the pump on top of it so it doesn't suck up gunk from the bottom.  I was even thinking about getting rotorflush $25? for the pump prefilter to keep frog eggs & tadpoles from getting sucked into it.  (p.s. not much internet chat about that product..anyone got any experience?).   I was going to have lots of plants to hide the pump & pumbing.   I was kinda hoping that was all the hardware I needed.  In the last couple days I've been scared that I was going to end up with a LOT of pond maintenance issues.  I do have a river birch tree overhaning the pond which will drop leaves.  I was prepared for skimming them out after work- should only take 5 minutes or less.  Since it's a natural pond (with no fish) do I really need it to be crystal clear?  Won't the plants clean the water and create some like of equilibrium?   I know I am naive in all this so please be gentle.  Do any of you have a pond without fish?  Do I really need to spend $1800 to have a pond I will enjoy and not curse?  Thanks in advance.  - Steve