Author Topic: Flamingos, well a few anyway  (Read 2744 times)

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Offline Jonna

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Flamingos, well a few anyway
« on: October 31, 2009, 03:41:43 PM »
We went out to see the flamingos 2 days ago with my son and his girlfriend.  Just our luck, it had just rained and from what the boat driver told me when it rains the red mangrove turns the water murky and red and the flamingos fly off to clearer water because they can't watch for crocs in murky water.  He said the crocs are the main predators of flamingos.  So, there were only about a dozen around when there had been hundreds of thousands last week.  I doubt they had gone all that far but farther than a $20 boat ride would get us.  It was a fun day anyway, we went to the Gulf beach after the boat and ate shrimp and drank beer and went swimming.  I put some pics up on my blog if you are interested.   


Offline miguynmkoi

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 03:50:40 PM »
What a beautiful beach sunset!  Very nice nic-nacs too.  We only see flamingos at zoos or fancy hotels here.  Great photos. I agree with S&P's comment.  Thank you National Jonna Geographic Traveler.   O0

I love seeing so many wonderful places you have visited in Mexico.

Offline Esther

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 04:03:00 PM »
Are flamingos related to herons? I saw a closeup picture of a heron yesterday and noticed their knees bend backwards like the flamingos.

Offline Jerry

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 04:06:56 PM »
Nice photo for sure.  Tell me, what are the orange things I see in the trees?
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Offline mascot

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 05:08:10 PM »
Are flamingos related to herons? I saw a closeup picture of a heron yesterday and noticed their knees bend backwards like the flamingos.

What looks like their knees is actually their ankles.  Many birds have what appears to be knees that bend backwards, but that is their ankle that you see.  Flamingos have very short femurs but long ankles.  Birds typically are designed this way because they need to lean forward to feed on things, and therefore their ankles are long.

Flamingo Legs
• The legs of adult flamingos are longer than the flamingo's body, measuring between 80 to 125 cm (31.5-49 in.), depending on the species.
• The ankle is located about halfway up the leg.
• The knee is located close to the body and is not externally visible.

This page shows a typical bird skeleton, and many birds have a knee way up on their body under their feathers, as does the Flamingo.
 
http://fsc.fernbank.edu/Birding/skeleton.htm
I'm broke and can't afford to pay attention, so you might have to lend me an ear.

Offline Jonna

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 07:00:13 PM »
Blind, that was good info.  Now I know that they have really weird ANKLES not knees.  Well, who knows, maybe their knees are weird too but they are demure and don't show them.   lol

Jerry, the yellow/orange on the trees are dead leaves.  I think the fallen leaves getting washed out by the rain is what turns the water that dark red.

I really took a lot of bad pictures that day, I only really like about 2 of the hundred or so I took.  Most were blown out because the sun was bright and usually facing us when I tried to take a picture.  The guides have gotten a lot more responsible, he didn't go very close to the group of flamingos.  I've been on this boat ride in years past when they would run the boat at them so you could see them take off.  Interesting but not good for the birds.  I only saw one piece of trash the whole day and it was a plastic coke bottle that the boat driver stopped to pick up on the way back.  This is a sanctuary now and they are clearly really taking care of it. 

Here are some of the other pics I took but didn't put on the blog.

A couple of snowy egrets.  There are a LOT of birds out there in addition to the flamingos. 




Some more pics of the mangroves, they take the boat back through them for a bit and stop so you can see the birds and so the mosquitoes can find you.   {nono}





There are several fresh water springs in the mangroves, usually they are crystal clear water welling up in the midst of tannic water but this day they were not as clear.  At one of them they have built a boardwalk back into the mangrove and the spring, it's usually a great place to swim in the cool clear water.  This time we passed on swimming as it was murky and I was still thinking about those crocs.  You can sort of see in this pic the fresh water welling up in the middle of the swamp. 



A couple more flamingo pics





I did like these last two sunset shots.  One with a pelican flying across the sunset and the other with a little girl and her dog playing at the edge of the water. 





Hope you enjoyed the pics, I wish they were half as good as Nat'l Geo.  I've a lot to learn about taking shots in bad light and when on a moving boat. 

Offline Mikey

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 07:42:55 PM »
That's great seeing those flamingos in their natural setting as opposed to in the zoo.....or as some tacky lawn ornament....
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Offline Brian

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 08:06:56 PM »
Nice pix, Jonna!  That snowy egret is BEAUTIFUL!!!
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 08:32:00 PM »
I bet there are some fine fish there, maybe even a few gators?
I thought those leaves were parrots
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Offline Julles

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 06:16:06 AM »
You went swimming in water that was too murkey to see the alligators ??!?   :o   

Offline Jonna

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 08:36:27 AM »
No  lol  I've gone swimming at that fresh water spring before but then the water was crystal clear, at least in the area of the spring.   I didn't want to get in this time because of the red tannin color of the water and because of the crocodiles.   {nono}

I'm sure there are fish, I saw several boats that were shrimping and one that had a net in the water.    Eating out there on the beach is wonderful for sea food.  The shrimp are huge and excellent, the fish is very fresh and it is lobster and octopus season as well.  I don't eat either of those but I know it is the highlight for many.  I stick to the shrimp and the fish and you can get either made a dozen different ways but all very simple and very, very fresh.  The cold beer is not bad either on a hot day with your feet in the sand and the water sparkling.   :)

Offline Jerry

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 08:47:36 AM »
Have you seen Crocs?  What abour Gators?  They are more likely.  There are, I have read Crocs in Florida.  Not the kind we wear on our feet!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 03:01:21 PM by Jerry »
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Offline Jonna

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 12:52:30 PM »
I don't honestly know the difference between crocodiles and alligators so this is not 'take it to the bank' info.  What the ones here are called in Spanish is Crocodrillo and I thought that meant they were crocodiles.  They are very common in the mangroves, there is a fairly large one that lives across the street from my condo on the beach over in Akumal.  Some friends nearby had to put in a fence to keep it from sunning in their yard, they have small poodles.  It eats some of the raccoons and probably cats as well, my guess is that it is about 5'.    Out on the Gulf where the we went the other day, there are miles and miles of mangrove swamps and inland waterways and I'm sure lots and lots of crocodillos.   There was a 5' stuffed one over the bar at the restaurant we ate at, for sale too.   The boat driver told me that they are the only real predator of full grown flamingos, there are other predators for their chicks and eggs. 

So, that's all I know.  There are a whole lot of them on this peninsula but whether they are crocs or gators, I have no clue. 

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Offline Jonna

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 02:43:01 PM »
From the picture on your link, I think they are crocodiles.  Pointy mouths, I'm not getting close enough to look at their teeth, sorry.

Offline Jerry

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 02:59:46 PM »
here is mine no, not real.
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Offline Julles

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 05:40:01 PM »
Only alligators live in the Americas.  Crocodiles are native to Africa, India, places like that. 

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 07:39:32 PM »
So I thought Julles, but I keep reading references to Florids Crocs.  Let us Google it.

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Download PDF Publication #WEC 38

Topics: Wildlife Ecology and Conservation  | Alligators and Crocodiles  |  Mazzotti, Frank 
American Crocodiles (Crocodylus acutus) in Florida1
Frank J. Mazzotti 2
Introduction
Alligators and crocodiles belong to a group of reptiles called crocodilians. Crocodilians are the largest of the living reptiles and have the most complex behavior. About two dozen species of crocodilians in several groups are found in wetland habitats throughout the world in tropical and subtropical areas. Two species of crocodilians are native to the United States. The American alligator (Alligator mississippiensis) occurs in the southeastern United States, and the American crocodile (Crocodylus acutus), a tropical species, includes in its northern-most range, the coastal mangrove areas of extreme South Florida including most of Florida Bay (Figure 1). Crocodiles have always inspired fear and fascination not only because of their large size and fearsome teeth, but because of the aggressive reputations earned by their distant cousins in Australia and Africa. In reality, the American crocodile is so rare and shy of man that conflict with people rarely occurs. The American crocodile is listed as an endangered species by the United States and the State of Florida, but despite protection efforts, the population of the crocodile in South Florida has remained small.


 Figure 1.  Map of the Southern Portion of Florida


Appearance
The American crocodile is a lizard-shaped reptile with a long, muscular tail and four short legs with five toes on the front feet and four on the rear. The back is covered with bony plates called osteoderms that form a dorsal armor. Adults are grayish-green on the back and tail and have white or yellowish undersides, and the young have dark crossbands on the back and tail. Crocodiles have narrow triangular shaped snouts and the fourth tooth on both sides of the lower jaw is exposed when the mouth is closed. The ear drums, protected by moveable flaps of skin are located at the top of the head behind the eyes, and the nostrils are set at the end of an elongated snout. Because of the location of the eyes, ears, and nostrils, a crocodile can be submerged with only the top of its head exposed and still be able to see, hear, and breathe. Male crocodiles are larger than females. In South America, a 23-foot (7 m) American crocodile was reported. In Florida, males can reach about 15 feet (4.6 m) but rarely exceed 14 feet. Breeding females are about 8.2 to 12.8 feet (2.5-3.9 m).

Is It a Crocodile Or an Alligator?
Alligators are more common in Florida. They are darkly colored, have broad snouts, and are usually found in fresh water habitats (Figure 1). Crocodiles are very rare and secretive creatures. They prefer coastal, brackish, and salt water habitats and are grayish-green in color. Crocodiles have more tapered, triangular-shaped snouts, and the fourth tooth on either side of the lower jaw is exposed when the mouth is shut (Figure 2). Also, the back and tail of a young crocodile is marked with dark crossbands, while bright yellow stripes and blotches mark a young alligator.


 Figure 2.  American Alligator




 Figure 3.  American Crocodile






Distribution and Habitat
The American crocodile reaches the northern end of its range in extreme South Florida and can be found on the islands of Cuba, Jamaica, and Hispaniola. They also occur along both coasts of southern Mexico and Central America, south to Ecuador on the Pacific coast, and Venezuela on the Atlantic coast of South America. The number of crocodiles in Florida has never been large; researchers estimate a population of perhaps only 400 to 500 individuals.

Crocodiles are found in large, shallow lakes, marshes, ponds, swamps, rivers, and creeks. Although crocodiles occur in estuarine areas (where salt and fresh water mix), they prefer lower salinities except for nesting activities.

Food and Growth
Crocodiles eat almost anything that moves and some things that do not, and the bigger the crocodiles, the bigger their prey. Hatchlings and young crocodiles eat small fish, snails, crustaceans, and insects. Adult crocodiles feed at night on schooling fish, crabs, turtles, snakes, and small mammals. Large crocodilians can crush turtles and prey upon deer and other unwary large mammals near the edge of water. Even stones and plant parts (especially red mangrove seedlings) are found in crocodiles' stomachs. It is not known if these items are consumed deliberately or incidentally to the capture of other prey. It is argued, but not demonstrated, that stones may benefit crocodiles by aiding in digestion.

The growth rate of crocodiles varies with food availability and temperature. Digestion is efficient only within a certain range of body temperatures. Generally, crocodiles grow more slowly near the limits of their ranges, but two factors may provide an explanation. First, it may be that the tropical American crocodile is better adapted for the warm South Florida environment. Second, food availability may be greater in their mangrove estuarine habitats.

Reproduction
Reproduction among crocodilians is the most advanced among reptiles. Courtship and nesting are protracted and complex. Sexual maturity depends on both the size and age of the animal. Unlike birds and mammals, the sex of embryos is not determined at fertilization, but by the temperature at which the eggs are incubated. It is likely that courtship occurs in late January and February and peaks 6 to 8 weeks before nesting. During this period, crocodiles remain in their inland habitats of mangrove swamps.

Crocodile courtship consists of a complex and varied sequence of behaviors that can last for minutes or hours and is performed repeatedly over the course of the courtship period which may last for several days. After courtship, the male and female part company and may seek other partners.

Crocodile courtship can be divided into three phases. The first phase is attracting a mate. Males initiate the courtship by a rapid series of head slaps. If the female is interested, she will lift her snout and arch her tail. The male responds by vibrating his body in a complex display. The next phase is pair formation, which consists of rubbing snouts, riding each other, blowing bubbles, and submerging. The third phase is copulation, which may occur repeatedly. After the courtship period, males go about their business and the fertilized females begin nest preparation.

The principle nesting site of the American Crocodile in Florida is Florida Bay (Figure 1). Nesting is a wet season activity occurring around the end of April and the beginning of May. Females lay between 20 to 60 eggs per clutch and the eggs will incubate for about 85 days, hatching in late July or early August.

American crocodile nests are constructed so that the eggs will be above the high water mark. Crocodilian eggs cannot survive flooding for more than 12 hours. Crocodiles build soil (sand, marl, or peat) nests on elevated, well-drained sites. Most of the habitats meeting the requirement for crocodile nesting are near higher salinity water (greater than 80% sea water, 29 ppt). Crocodile nests may be mounds or holes. After nest construction, female crocodiles in Florida do not remain near the nest. However, toward the end of incubation, females visit the nest with increasing frequency. When hatching begins, the mother digs open the nest and may help some of the hatchlings emerge from their eggs. She also may assist the newly hatched crocodiles to water or nursery sites where they are released. Adult crocodiles leave the nesting areas within a day or two, leaving the hatchling crocodiles on their own. As a result, hatchling crocodiles disperse rapidly from their nest sites and fend for themselves.

Limiting Factors
Predation, hydrological regime, and habitat loss are the most important factors influencing the success of crocodiles in Everglades National Park. While adult crocodiles have no natural predators other than man, hatchlings have a high mortality rate primarily due to predation by raccoons, birds, and crabs. Alteration of salinity and water levels in Florida Bay (located in the southern part of Everglades National Park extending south to include the Florida Keys) and as a result of extensive drainage programs also may be a factor. Crocodile nests that are too wet or too dry (desiccated) result in mortality of eggs. While adequate nesting habitat remains, good year-round habitat has been lost with the development of the upper Florida Keys.

Conclusion
Crocodiles have inspired awe, respect, and fear. The feeling of fear, however, may be misplaced. The American crocodile is so rare and shy of many, few conflicts with people have occurred. The outlook for crocodiles in Florida is optimistic. The nesting population slowly is increasing, both in number and nesting range. Protection of the remaining crocodile habitat in Florida, and the enhancement of Everglades' ecosystems will ensure the survival of this endangered species.

What You Can Do
Support the National Park Service's attempts to restore a healthy Everglades ecosystem.

Never feed, tease, or in any way harass a crocodile. It is illegal and dangerous.

Footnotes
1.
This document is WEC 38, one of a series of the Department of Wildlife Ecology and Conservation, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida. Published: 1999, as SS-WIS-38. Revised: December, 2002 as WEC-QRS-003. Revised: May 2003 as WEC 38. Reviewed May 2009. Please visit the EDIS Web site at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu.


2.
Frank J. Mazzotti, Associate Professor; Wildlife Ecology and Conservation Department, University of Florida, Ft. Lauderdale REC, Ft. Lauderdale, FL, 33314, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville, 32611.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (IFAS) is an Equal Opportunity Institution authorized to provide research, educational information and other services only to individuals and institutions that function with non-discrimination with respect to race, creed, color, religion, age, disability, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, political opinions or affiliations. For more information on obtaining other extension publications, contact your county Cooperative Extension service.

U.S. Department of Agriculture, Cooperative Extension Service, University of Florida, IFAS, Florida A. & M. University Cooperative Extension Program, and Boards of County Commissioners Cooperating. Millie Ferrer-Chancy, Interim Dean.

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« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 07:44:08 PM by Jerry »
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Offline karen J

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 09:34:22 PM »
I remember seeing baby gators at the Ernest T. Ball boardwalk somewhere near Pensacola (if anyone can help me with that memory, please elaborate  :))... but I honestly couldn't tell between a gator and a croc if one bit me in the bleep.

Jonna, your pics are absolutely gorgeous! You are so lucky to live in a place of such beauty.

Here's a strange thing I stumbled upon while surfing the internet awhile back... is it true that pure, expeller pressed coconut oil is a natural mosquito repellent? There was a guy from somewhere in S.A. who claimed this, but of course he was selling it for mucho moulah.

I'd be in heaven climbing all over those mangroves, looking for my perfect picnic spot (wine, chocolate, and brie!), if not for the mosquitos.
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Offline Jonna

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 10:48:40 PM »
I haven't heard the coconut oil repellent story but I have to say that I doubt it.  They also say that Neem oil is a natural repellant and even that if you plant the Neem tree, which grows fast around here, it will keep mosquitoes out of your area.  Friends of mine have them all around and they haven't noticed any repellent activity.  So, I'm guessing that it is like the Avon Skin so Soft thing, pure wishful thinking.

All that i've found to work on the flying bloodsuckers is DEET and another substance that I've forgotten the name of but is in a product called Autan.  Other than that, we burn the repellent coils and they do seem to help but I can't really say that for sure. 

Coconut oil is great for your skin, for a sunburn, for making some traditional dishes but I don't think it helps with mosquitoes. 

Offline Jerry

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 11:23:48 AM »
Karen it's not luck. She had to make a brave decision. Trial runs to, I bet.  Much research.
She is lucky to have the intestinal fortitude to make the move.

Wonder if they watched the series?
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Offline Jonna

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2009, 08:28:38 PM »
What series? 

I've always loved Mexico, I grew up in SoCal and we spent a lot of time all my life in Mexico, mainly the Baja and the Pacific Coast but I did spend a year in Mexico City in my 20's.  I think that I always knew I'd move back to Mexico someday.  We were divers and went all over diving but always returned to the Caribbean and the Mexican coast.  About 15 years ago we bought a condo in a small dive town and we've kept it all these years.  I thought I'd retire there but we had so much fun driving around in the RV on the way that we never stayed there very long.  I always loved the city of Merida so when we decided that Akumal was not a permanent home and we wanted a house because I missed my ponds we bought an old ruin there and here we are.  I love living here, I would not move back to the US ever if I could avoid it.  I love the US, it is my homeland but I'm tired of a lot of the cultural aspects and I believe that it is good for me to keep having to learn new things and experience different ways of seeing the world.  It's my antidote to fogey-dom.  But yes, I did do a lot of research both on the ground and on the internet before we bought. 

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Re: Flamingos, well a few anyway
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2009, 10:16:06 PM »
The World Series.  I was commenting about an earlier post.  It was vague.
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