Author Topic: Going out on a limb. Sorta.  (Read 2480 times)

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Offline PondmaninAL

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Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« on: February 28, 2010, 09:32:58 PM »
Well, I have been thinking about this since the decision to move up here. I'm going to become a pond consultant. I've ordered my business cards and will work on the web page/site until they arrive. I'm just going to use a sub domain under my main domain that I got for the club. I did some research through posting on the local Craig's Lists and FreeCycle Cafe and found no ponders in this county. I have been posting on Craig's List about a ponding class and have had two to respond. I'm hoping for more by April. I'm going to do the class for free to get the interest spreading. I might not have been a pond master in Florida but in this county full of cattle farmers and horse ranches, I can pass as one. One plus, I did start my interest with farm ponds. I'll just need to spend a little time at pond boss to catch up on new technology and discoveries in that part of ponding.

Do y'all think I can do this?

If I have success with the first class on planning and building, I'll do classes on plants and fish/other aquatic life.
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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Offline purplepshn2004

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 09:38:15 PM »
Wtg Scott,

That sounds like a really good plan you have there!  I am rooting for you and hope it all works out!

Offline Jerry

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 10:46:13 PM »
Maybe a local nursery sells pond stuff.  Offer a free seminar.  Just an idea.

Good luck
Anther idea:  Contact an on line dealer and ask for commision to tout their stuff.
Maybe even more than one?  Some are better on some things then others.  Just thinking out loud.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 10:48:41 PM by Jerry »
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Offline Esther

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 05:32:35 AM »
Go for it.

Offline miguynmkoi

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 10:11:08 AM »
Start planning your business goals!

Offline tinkster

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 04:44:30 PM »
I say go for it.. I cnt tell you the people that have offered me money to do them a pond when they see mine. You could also do some planters if ya have any extra plants, lilies, marginals.. people really love them and they sell for big money.

tink

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 05:55:35 PM »
Thanks all.

Jerry, there are two nurseries within 10 miles and I'm almost certain that they don't have any aquatics or pond stuff. Matter-of-fact, once we get a house (buying), I'm going to be growing plants to sell and when I think that I have enough stock, take care of all the legalities to open an aquatic nursery. As business builds, I'll include liners, pumps, filters, etc. Yes, I've really thought this thing through. :)
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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Offline Mikey

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 06:54:07 PM »
Quote
Do y'all think I can do this?
You live in America; of course you can do it! 
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Offline Rad Michelle

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 07:05:00 PM »
great idea! i'm trying for lily grower around here. something thatll really help is if you guys have some kinda garden fest you can vista print some brochures and etc to really get yourself out there

Offline Julles

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 08:30:48 PM »
There is not better way to learn than by jumping in and getting started.  You will get better, too, as time goes by.  You may make a few mistakes in the beginning, but in 5 years, you'll be an expert.

Remember that running a business means other than just building and maintaing ponds.  There's bookkeeping, advertising, public relations, inventory, etc.  You have to be good at ALL aspects of the business - OR hire people who can do what you can't.

Also, why teach the classes?  Do you think you will make money this way?  Or is it to get your name out there?  I think there is more money in installing ponds, rather than teaching people to do their own.  On the other hand, many of your students will end up calling you to install their ponds for them. 




Offline tweetybaby2005

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 06:46:02 AM »
Scott, most businessess start with good ideas.  When you pour your heart, soul, and sweat into it, your business will flourish!!   O0  Good luck on your endeavor.  It sounds like a great idea and you have the heart for it, with lots of good goals to boot.   :)

Kuan

Offline Jerry

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 07:41:34 AM »
Julles said it right, but she left out...,....................TAXES! :'(
Jerry
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Offline turtlemike

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 09:27:13 AM »
 
  So Scott you are an old mud farm ponder like me.  That's where I started and where I'm still at.  No need to go anywhere else.  I figure I have the real version of what you liner ponders are trying to reproduce on a small scale.

  I don't know much about liner ponds but I do know what works in a " farm " pond.  As I travel around and see peoples farm ponds that they obviously made for aesthetic purposes right in front of their house for instance, and I see either a pond full of weeds or a barren pond from copper sulphate with a barren mowed shoreline. 
 These people have managed to take the most beautiful and highly productive wildlife and beauty producing part of their land and turned it into an ugly unnatural ecological desert.  All out of extreme Hydrophytophobia,-  fear of water plants.
  I have learned to conqueror my hydrophytophobia by learning how to fight fire with fire and at the same time make my ponds a thing of beauty with clear water and wildlife galore. At very little cost or work.

  When I see one of these ponds I think " I bet these people would pay me good money to go to their place and plant their pond and cure them of their hydrophytophobia. "  All I would need is a portfolio of pictures of my ponds and knock on their door and show them what's possible.
 
 Of course I don't have time to do that because of my lily breeding.  But you Scott, might be able to do liner AND farm ponds.  My feeling is that a well done farm pond is such a thing of beauty that it would sell it's self and result in many more jobs.  There are a lot of farm ponds out there that are owned by people that have know idea of the incredibly beautiful thing that they could have there if they just did things right.
  just like liner ponds were thought of by many people as algae clogged cesspools before we learned to do things the right way, peoples ideas of farm ponds can also be transformed.  Just by seeing.

  Another example of a business that can be built by supplying people with the thing that they don't even know that they want and need.   Like computers.

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 07:45:41 PM »
Wow, thanks guys and gals.

Tink, I've been thinking of your idea with the planters. I'm thinking of getting two of those big plastic pots from Wal-Mart and maybe some half barrels and do it. I can set them around and on my parent's big front deck and take pics.

Michelle, I ordered my business cards from Vista Print. They had premium cards on sale at 85% off. The design that I chose was a goldfish.

Julles, I have the best business partner that a person could have, my wife. o(:-)

Jerry, that has also been thought out. :)

T-Mike, you have just became my mentor. :) I see so many farm ponds around here and I think to myself, "That would look a whole lot better with water lilies in it." All the time with images of your ponds in my head. I have given a lot of thought to converting farm ponds and hope that any land that we buy has at least one farm pond on it.
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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Offline turtlemike

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 06:29:37 AM »
 
 Thanks Scott.

Water lilies are great for a pond but there's more to it. Shoreline plants are probably just as, or more important to good water quality and habitat. 

  I can supply you with info on which plants to avoid and which are beneficial.

  I have most if not all of the best native plants from my area as well as controllable lilies in my ponds and I recommend that you get to know the native non invasive plants that grow in the ditches and ponds around your place, then ask me what I know about them and I will give you my opinion on them.

  If it's legal to ship them we could do some trading this summer or when you get a pond.  You probably have everything I have here because most of the plants that I have are pretty cosmopolitan in the east.
 I could make a list of Turtlemike approved plants for you to look for in your area if you want.

  You DEFINITLY need to buy land with ponds or good pond building sites or both.  Its good to have one already on the land but I read that ponds are deliberately built on properties before sale to increase the value and salability. 
 I also read that the increased sale price of land with a pond is 3 times the cost of building the pond !

  This means that if you buy a piece of land with good pond building sites on it you can build 3 ponds for the price of one already built.   And you can build them how and where YOU want them to be.  And you can chose your land according to how you want the house to be or other factors like price instead of whether it has the right pond.

Offline Julles

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 04:24:17 PM »
I do hope you'll keep us posted as this develops.  I'm getting excited about the farm pond idea. 

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2010, 07:25:52 PM »
T-Mike, any information that you can provide is always helpful and a list of plants that you know to be great around the edge would also be good. The only plants that I've seen around these parts are cattails which in a farm pond can be a weedy problem. :( Steve Stroupe was suppose to get me some of the Cahaba Lily bulbs/seeds that is talked about in his article on Victoria-Adventures.

Julles, it takes three weeks for delivery of the cards. When I receive them, I will be visiting nurseries in the area. I'm going out to the only pond store that I know on the 14th of this month. It's in one of the surrounding counties.
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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Offline Julles

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2010, 02:00:43 PM »
Pondman, I was at the Livestock Show (part of the HUGE Rodeo going on in Houston right now) all day yesterday, and sat in on some seminars.  I jotted down some ideas that might be useful to your enterprise.

I really like the idea of managing or helping with farm ponds, which seems like a nice, unserved niche for you.

The speaker mentioned reparian area management - the area along creeks and streams, too.
They need to be fenced, he said, to keep livestock out of them, to keep the water clean. 
They need to be managed to prevent erosion.
They need to be managed to control invasive species.
They need to be managed to improve water quality and wildlife habitat.

He said ponds can provide water, food, and cover, or they can be recreation ponds.

You can get all sorts of probably-free help from NPW (National Parks & Wildlife) (and they give some sort of accreditation, too, which will be nice credentials), your local extension service, state biologist, wildlife management associations, US Department of Agriculture, etc.

He also said that farms need more than one pond.  Different kinds, shapes, depths of water, dispersed over the farm.

End of my notes.  :)


Offline turtlemike

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2010, 05:59:03 PM »
He said that, " Ponds can provide water, food and cover for wildlife OR they can be recreation ponds ".

  This seems to indicate to me that he thinks that they can only be one or the other.  I don't know if that's what he meant but if it is I disagree with him.    The main thing thing that limits a ponds recreational potential is shallow depth,small size and gentle shoreline slopes. That, combined with the resulting rampant growth of aggressive early arrivals, like cattails and Leafy Pond weed, etc, etc.

  Irrigation use that often draws the water down more than 3 ft below pool will limit recreational and all other uses. 

  I TOTALY agree with his last statement and I'm doing my best to put ponds ALL over my land, and would add that they should be as big and deep as possible, for many reasons. And should have shallow and deep areas in the same pond.

Offline Roark

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2010, 06:27:20 PM »
Go for it, Pondman!  Nature abhors a vacuum, and it sounds like you found a potentially good one to fill.

One point, and it's worth making because *not* making it early could cost you dearly:  Farm ponds, as in "ponds which are used to support a farm operation", are a completely different creature than what I'll call "decorative/ornamental" ponds.  It's true that both are made by filling a hole with water, but that's where it all stops.  The needs for each are completely different.

A true farm pond is used for irrigation, water retention (ie, water impoundment) and for the watering of livestock or crops. All other uses (the "pretty-factor") are secondary.  Appearance doesn't count. Cost of ownership has to be nil.  It must additionally bring to the table a very, very low investment in the way of time and energy, and it must last for years.  On a farm or ranch, you have a very tight budget, no margin for error, and you are looking at catastrophe if things get screwed-up.  If you have your sights set on farm-pond consulting, you might want to apprentice with one of the "old timers" who does this work and learned it the hard way. The lessons will be priceless.  Because farm communities tend to be very tightly knit, one bad customer experience will poison your name for any future work.  So you've gotta get it right from the git-go. :) 

I'm betting your current experience is with garden ponds. It's good experience, and it has value within that context, but understand it will not translate into farm ponds.  In farm ponds you need to study not only fish, plants and piscine meds... but also how these things will interact with horses, cattle, crops, etc. Example: Put some big lily plants into the pond?  It'll make it pretty, but are they toxic to horses or cattle at certain times of the year?  Will the pond attract birds or frogs, and will these carry parasites that throw an entire chicken production operation off?  How about an algaecide? Or will it kill-off an entire crop of hay and leave the field sterile when the rains come and the outflow hits a field? Maybe use an "eco-safe" blue dye instead... but is it *labeled* for use in water systems servicing food animals? Did you think to wonder if dimilin residue in the runoff from your customers farm pond will whack a neighbors 20 acre mud pond whose cash-crop was crawdads?   

Lots of stuff to consider, and until you've been there, it's hard to know what questions to ask. Ponding is tough enough, but when you add the word "farm" in front of it, you've just hit the big leagues. :)

So definitely go tear 'em up... but mentally draw a line in the sand between what you know... and what you don't yet even suspect.  Find an "old farmer" to listen-to, one who doesn't mind lots of questions, and dismiss nothing he tells you until you've tried it a dozen times.  (FWIW, this was possibly the hardest lesson I had to learn. Sometimes you'll find that most of the books published by "experts" are useless, wrong, and flat-out dangerous. When it comes to farm ponds, book-smarts is worth *nothing* outside of acedamia.  You won't find much of this "high-fallutin" mumbo-jumbo  however from an old farmer. Try it and see!).

Best of luck in your new endeavor! Find a need and fill it!

Roark
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Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2010, 08:38:42 AM »
Roark, thank you for your advice. I know that there are differences in farm ponds. I started out doing my studies as a teen in a farm pond on the property back behind my dad's and took both biology and ecology in high school. If I remeber right, I'm also a member over at the Pond Boss forum. It seems that all the farms around here already have at least one pond but what I'm looking at is those where the land has been sold for development, maybe for ranchettes, and the new owner may want to convert the existing pond to something of beauty.

Thank you Julles, for your notes.

There are either horses or cattle, either beef or dairy, but I've not seen any crops except for hay and that not anything fancy.
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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Offline Julles

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 03:16:12 PM »
Wow, Roark, that is a whole BUNCH of things one would never have thought to consider!

PondMan, another thing... Paul James, in an episode of Gardening by the Yard, had a segment on Japanese gardens, which, of course, always include a pond.  He said that, since Japan is itself and island, they always try to incorporate an island into each pond.  He said they are called "turtle island" and the name has to do with longevity.

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Going out on a limb. Sorta.
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 09:11:16 PM »
Thanks Julles but I don't think there will be anything as fancy as a Japanese garden in this area. ;D Think Redneck. ;D
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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[img width= height= alt=Click for Odenville, Alabama Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150]http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniStates/language/www/US/AL/Odenville.gif[/img]

If you think that your question is dumb, imagine how totally stupid you will look if you don't ask it.

 

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