Love the English Language

[PHYLAL]

You think American English is easy???

Generations, locations, and ethnic differences and we are supposed to understand each other?  Hey, we do not speak the same way; we cannot even get our language right!
Read to the end . . . a new twist 

  1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
  2) The farm was used to produce produce.
  3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
  4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
  5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
  6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
  7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
  A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
  9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
19) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
20) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

Let us face it - English is a crazy language.
English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all.  That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible.

[Esther]

Two (To) confuse things, I think their(there) are to(too) many words that they're(their) pronounciation is the same but spelling and meaning are different. There(they're) hard too(to) tell apart.

[tugo]

Let me try to tell you how it works for me, being some one who practices English as his foreign language.

50 years ago, when I start a boarding school at 11 years old, the first prep class with 8 hours of English ( and only English) per day  given by American and English teachers ( yes we really had Mr. and Mrs. Brown) , we were over and over told;

A- Not to think  in our language before we start building a sentences.
B- Free to make as much as mistakes.
C- To use the words without thinking  their secondary  meanings. That reason, they didn't teach us the “words” but the sentences.

Now when I read Phylal's post, I understand how correct it was with “C”. Otherwise we should be floating in the sea of conflicts and could not progress.

Till today, I never looked the case from this point. But now I have to “decide a decision”.


The worst experience of mine with English language was, when 16-17 years old boy with much eager to use my English and had to make a bus trip from Istanbul to Athens for 16 hours long, with a guy sitting next to me from “Texas” ( with his cowboy hat )
The engine sound of the old bus plus Texas dialect was a torture for me. I begged him many times “Pls pls speak a normal English” and I believe he tried but he couldn't. When I left the bus I was drunk without alcohol.

Also you have to consider the English spoken between the foreigners. I myself though been to more than 25 different countries never been to USA or UK.  I had to speak German English with Germans and Arabic English with Arabs and with Italians, don't ask me.

Hope no offence, I love all the people from Texas and all others, was just a sweat memory of mine.

[Kittyzee]

No offense taken Tugo, and very true with the dialects all over the US.  I have a hard time understanding some southern dialects too  (just kidding!!)    I am from the Midwest and don't think there's much of a dialect until I talk to someone from a northern state or the northeast, and then they think that I have a southern dialect! 

It's funny when I was reading PHYLAL's post, my brain took over and I read all of the sentences with the pronunciations to the words the way they were supposed to be for the intended meaning.  It's like taking letters out of a word and the brain knows what it's reading--even though it's misspelled.

I wish the schools around here would teach foreign languages in grade school.  Kids are so open to new things and they could learn it along with their english.   

[Sunbeam56]

In Texas, a foreign language is a requirement in high school. But most  kids take French  because most kids speak a little Spanish and don't think its exotic enough. 

The romance languages are more contextual than English/Germanic languages. In English, if we say "the apple is red" - we mean color. In Spanish, if you say "la manzana es rojo" - you may mean that the apple is ripe, because it reddens as it ripens.

Spelling is easier in Spanish too. If you can pronounce it, you can spell it.

The fondest example of odd English phrases come from George Carlin routines. He was a master at pointing out odd English terms. "If crime fighters fight crime, and fire fighters fight fires, what do freedom fighters fight?"  "If we go out the exit door, why don't we exit the out door?" 

[Jonna]

Whenever I start having a pity party over my attempts to learn Spanish, I think of how regular it is compared to English.  Sometimes, I know that my Spanish is better than someone's English but I get lazy and let them struggle in English.  It sounds weird, but there is a kind of dance between languages when talking with strangers and I sometimes don't dance.  Then, I get frustrated and switch to Spanish and they are surprised.  On one hand, people want to practice their English but on the other hand maybe they just want to get the transaction over with.  I just read that and I'm not at all sure it made sense.  I also think that I'm becoming illiterate in two languages instead of adding one. 

What Savannah said is right, if you can pronounce something in Spanish you can mostly spell it.  There are exceptions, you can't tell a B from a V in spoken Spanish, but that easy connection between spelling and pronouncing is a wonderful thing.  I shudder when I think how difficult English would be to learn as a second language. 

Tugo, my Spanish teacher says the same things you wrote above.  I get too analytical sometimes and try and figure out a connection between the meanings.  She won't speak any English to us and if we don't understand a phrase or a word we have to work out the meaning from descriptions.  It is a good way to learn and I think my Spanish is improving with these classes.  I've always learned phrases not so much words, then I can plug other verbs/nouns into that construction and it usually works.  I also am at the point where there are things I say that make perfect sense to me in Spanish but that I would have a hard time translating into English, it would take me a couple sentences to translate a phrase because I don't know that the same thing is said in English. 

I agree that the US is missing an incredible opportunity to be a bilingual country, something that has enormous advantages in world trade and personal development.   Our kids should be learning another language at least a few hours a day from their first day in school.  Oh well, instead we are busy shuttering ourselves away from the world.   

[HOWELL]

What Savannah said is right, if you can pronounce something in Spanish you can mostly spell it.  There are exceptions, you can't tell a B from a V in spoken Spanish, but that easy connection between spelling and pronouncing is a wonderful thing.  I shudder when I think how difficult English would be to learn as a second language. 

  

There is a difference between V and B in spanish..the thing is not a lot of people know...
Most mexican never know there is but yes there is..
It is different when you say Vaca as when you say Beca...Vaca means Cow and Beca means scholaship...
A lot of people don't pronounce words right...
I would love to know more languages...I wanna learn french, italian, portugese, chinese, japanese and some others like hebrew and stuff...it would be awesome I will feel like I can understand most of the world..

[Jonna]

You know, I've had other well educated (like you  ) Spanish speakers tell me there is a difference in the sounds of B and V but I can't hear it.  I don't think the common folk use a different sound normally because they misspell a lot between those letters and people without much education (like my maid) tell me there is no difference in the sound.  Hell, I'd be happy to get either of the sounds right consistently     I usually go for more of a B sound for both letters. 

One of my favorite fantasies is that I become able to speak and understand all languages, what a blast that would be. 

[Esther]

If a language doesn't have certain sounds, does that then mean they cannot pronounce a word from another language that contains those sounds. I've always wondered about the "R" sound that Asians don't seem to be able to do.

[HOWELL]

Jonna just try to say Vaca or any word that has V in it as in english V and that will somehow do it..
Esther I love the way asian pronounce the R in spanish...it just sounds like L and it makes it fun...

[HOWELL]

My english teacher says he loves my souther accent...don't y'all hate that?...

[Jonna]

OMG!! You have a southern accent???? Howell, I'm shocked.  I have to rethink how I think you sound.        Wait till I tell Robie, he's coming over tomorrow to pick up half the seeds that I got from Scott.  I hope to double the chance of success with them.   Let's see, I can equate a southern accent to one from Veracruz maybe?

[Sunbeam56]

I love the context in Spanish. Really-really.
Another example: Que tal. In the first lesson in Spanish you learn that it means "How are you".
Nope...
It means different things based on the history between the speakers. It can mean... pleased to meet you (to a stranger) or.... did you get beat up too badly (to a friend going through something tough).

Sorta like directions in the South. 

[HOWELL]

Some of the words sound like it..but I think I now have more of a mexican accent since I have lived now long enough in mexico and never talk english anymore..
I know I hate that sunbeam I sometimes ask people what they mean with that and they mean something completely different...
Whenever they say are you coming down here...and they are up north..

So jonna did you think I sounded so homie like?

[Jonna]

No, I thought you had that kind of precise accent that many bilingual people have.  They pronounce everything correctly without slurring.  I think of southern accents as one big slurring sound. 

[Julles]

Esther, that is true.  I heard that, by age 3, your tongue changes so it is no longer able to form new shapes / sounds.  So, if you learned language(s) at an early age, you will be able to pronounce all the words and sounds correctly.  But if you attempt to learn a new language after age 3, your mind can learn the words, but your tongue will never be able to absolutely correctly form the shapes needed to make the correct pronunciations. 

Oh, and when a British or Australian show comes on, I switch channels.  I canNOT understand my own language when spoken in those dialects!

Tugo, I admire your skills at deciphering the various Englishes.  I'm fairly good at French, but can only understand it if it's a native speaker from France.  Can't get through the Canadian accent at all, and if it's an American speaking French, forget it.  I have an American friend who taught French in a high school, and this friend is "very gay."  He spoke to me once in French, and I didn't even recognize the language!! 

A French friend of mine learned English over in Europe.  He speaks BRITISH English, so he's difficult to understand, too.  And when he visited the states, he had a devil of a time when he met up with a very kindly man from Montana, because the accent was so different.  Or, as he put it, MontanaMountainsGarbled.

[Jonna]

I also think that is somewhat true Esther, although I think the age when you can learn these sounds is older than 3.  I've known Mexican Americans who did not speak much Spanish at all but had heard it at home as a child and while they have to learn vocabulary and structure like any other language student, their pronunciation is much, much better.  Also, I have a German friend who has lived in Mexico since he was 12 and his Spanish is fluent with an accent from where he was raised in Puebla - but, native speakers tell me that his phrasing and his tone are different that he says things "flatter" or with less emphasis than a native speaker.   There are an enormous number of native Mayan speakers here in Yucatan, for much of the population Spanish is their second language.  They tell me that learning English is easier for them than learning Spanish because there are similar sounds in English to Maya and these sounds don't exist in Spanish.  It's the way the tongue is held and the tension in the mouth.  It's a fascinating study, language.   

[tugo]

Thanks for comments and points.
One more funny and interesting thing about dialect and accent is; that I have learned German in Austria during my more than 10 years long stay and only by hearing and practice. Germans and Austrians speak the same language but with quite many differences. I can understand who is German or Austrian only from his language. On the other hand, it happened many times that when I have spoken some German people face to face or by phone, I was told many times that I was speaking like a German and not like an Austrian.) Don't know how it happens.
Also to mention, over my English, when trying to catch some German, this language at the beginning was coming to me as nonsense. But after 3-4 years of German practice, German started coming to me much more a reasonable and logical language:)) I found myself many times in the position of judging as "why in English, it is not so logical".
That means, the new comer kicks the previous visitor.
By the way, I still cannot write in German, just speak:))

[Sunbeam56]

I have an English accent when I've had too many glasses of wine. 

[HOWELL]

at sunbeam...

[PondmaninAL]

Julles, after living with a Brit woman for over ten years (lived with her for a year before marrying her), I can pretty much say that I'm bi-lingual in English. Did you know that a Southerner cannot speak in a British accent as easily as a Brit can speak in a Southern one? My wife does a good,"Y'all come back now, ya hear?" Gee, I love that woman.

[HOWELL]

God bless hillbillies...
I have notice the same about southerners trying to speak with a british accent and that they can't never do it..