Too many leaves and roots

[tugo]

A hardy division from last november, Oderata Sulphurea, grows too many leaves and roots but not flowered till now, not even it has a bud eye. On the other side, mother plant and 2 other sister divisions had bloomed several times. All treated in the same way and fertilized 2 times this season.

Today I put it in water bare rooted.

Any idea on this? Do you think extra fertilizing, pruning the leaves/roots or any other way for forcing to flowering?

[greenthumbnails]

I had similar problem with some hardies that I got but I think its because I got them as very small pieces of tuber and they had to grow out a good root system first.  I also had them in pretty shallow water in a kiddie pool and I am thinking they like it deeper.  This year I got a bigger/deeper  water container and the plants are about 2 yrs old and they are starting to bloom for the first time. 

Maybe someone else can offer help?

[tugo]

Thank you greenthumbnails.
There are some gray points for me that reason I am digging up the situation to learn more.
Yes this one I also hosted in a kiddy pond, beginning of spring and after seeing mosaic like countless leaves, I moved it into the deeper main pond. Leaves got a little more larger.
The rhizome it self, seems big enough but as you said the growing points are several but all small. I think same as you but also wonder, how a small young rhizome can grow too many leaves, is it another system than flowering? If I could make it clear.

The one another point that I don't know is; in several places I have read that some rhizomes may not get out of dormancy. Is, putting out many leaves (except the pilot leaves) means that it is out of dormancy? or this is not the measure to show? In other words, is growing too many leaves a sign of getting dormancy or not?
Sorry for making such repeated sentenceses but using a foreign language in an unfamiliar subject is difficult for me.

[greenthumbnails]

Usually dormancy involves less growth. So it would have less leaves instead of more leaves.  If you are having many small leaves crop up maybe it is because you have several crowns growing out of that rhizome?

Maybe it is the proportion of the 3 parts of fertilizer that you are using?  Read the thread on Osmocote started recently. There was a post on there where someone noticed that depending on what fertilizer and the concentration of each part they used they got more green growth vs tuber growth vs flower blooms.

[tugo]

having many small leaves crop up maybe it is because you have several crowns growing out of that rhizome?

Have checked now and it is true. Not such a big rhizome but has 5 small crowns on it. Thanks for your hit.

Regarding fertilizer, well I used the same for all and others are quite good. Actually as I mentioned before I have used NPK 18-46-0, just to try and see. My other pots have large leaves and flowers, they are very fine.

For normal terrestrial plants, if I am not wrong;(pls correct me)

N-Nitrogen is good for green parts
P-Phosphorus is for roots, stem and good flowering
K-Potassium is for tasty and durable fruits

How do we apply this for aquatics ie. w.lilies?
 I would like to see the negative effects of missing "K" , if any, with my fertilizer mixture. All, except this one pot mentioned above, have lots of leaves (most of them with diameter 9-11"), long and many roots and good looking flowers staying open 3-4 days.

What part of w.lilies and lotuses needs K-Potassium, in other words.
Thanks in advance.

[greenthumbnails]

I have never used Osmocote or Multicote but always have multitudes of blooms from my Terrestrial and Aquatic plants for one reason only, any fertilizer is better than none and I give what I can with the simple rule that blooming plants require at least a ratio of 1:5:3 NPK.
Any fertilizer is better than none and if you can not give what they really want an equal ratio is a wonderful fertilizer strategy. So if you can not do the 1:5:3 NPK ratio an even ratio of 10:10:10 or 14:14:14 or 20:20:20 will still be better than nothing at all.
Remember folks, fertilize within the limits of you plants ability to absorb, do not over fertilize or you will burn the roots and kill you plants!

Cheers,
Sean

members were having a discussion on fertilizer in above thread and I just copied Sean's reply regarding the proportions...

Oh, just realized that you posted on that topic too so you know about thread already. 
Well, maybe your particular plant variety does not have as many blooms compared to other varieties is also possible...

[turtlemike]

  Tugo I believe that since most lilies will have growth rhizomes and rhizomes that stay more or less dormant. These dormant rhizomes must have a hormone in them that keeps them dormant during the growing season or the growing crowns are taking all of the growth hormones that are being produced by the roots or both.  When you disassemble your plant during division some of the crowns that you remove from each other are either dominant or dormant.
 The dominant ones will be growing rapidly and will have less new crowns per given length than a crown that has become dormant. These crowns will take off and grow rapidly and flower like normal

  The onset of dormancy initiates slowed growth, less flowering and more new crown production in a dominant crown weather it's because fall is approaching or because it is becoming a dormant crown during the growing season. Many plants will grow a foot or two and make no new crowns all summer then when the plant goes into dormancy in the fall the dominant crown will make several new crowns. Next spring usually the old dominant crown will stay dominant and grow fast. Usually one or a few of the new crowns will become a dominant crown and grow fast and the rest will stay dormant. 

  As you can imagine a sleepy dormant crown cluster might take a while to wake up and stop doing what it's been doing all of it's life, which is being dormant. This is your crown cluster that won't fully wake up.

The first crown to fully wake up will become the dominant crown and the rest are still competing for resources and hormones pretty much equally between each other and they have a good chance of staying dormant for longer than a dominant crown.

  You have a dormant crown cluster that is soaked in dormancy hormones and each growing point is trying to wake up and become the dominant crown.  If one crown can get just a little farther away from the center of mass, the center of hormone concentration and put down roots that bypass the hormone soaked dormant cluster it becomes the dominant crown and begins to suppress the dormant crowns and they stay submissive.

  I would say that if you remove all of the dormant crowns from your cluster and leave the bigger one that is farthest removed from the center of the cluster there will be no doubt who is the boss and it will start to grow normal sooner.

[greenthumbnails]

Hey Turtlemike thanks for your info, was not even aware of plants putting out hormones. Very interesting.  In a way I guess when we divide a huge cluster of crowns and give them seperate pots its really that we are getting them away from the part of the plant that has the suppressive hormones so they all take off and the main part left behind does better too.  Never knew it had to do with hormones, thought it was because of giving it more room to grow and not be cramped.
Thanks. 

[tugo]

Oh dear turtlemike, thanks really a lot. Could not be a better explanation. This was why I was keep digging the subject because when I deal with something I need to have some logical explanations to go further otherwise I stay in the emptiness and do not want just to accept the things as it is.

Hormones and dominancy explanations makes all clear and now on when I divide, I will know what I am potting and what to expect, less or more.

One more open point for me and will be grateful if I can get an answer to this also; What part of w.lilies and lotuses needs K-Potassium The answer for this will also help to clear somethings more. Of course I have followed the posts greenthumbnails mentioned about fertilizers but this point was not mentioned.

Sorry for if asking too much.
Thanks in advance