ducks in pond/dying fish/parasites?

[misstammy]

I used to be on awgs pond site .I cannot remember my name there. It moved so many times I gave up. It seems you(johns) were on there too.
Anyway I was looking here for info on ducks in the pond. We have two that visit every year for  a few year. The last couple years we didnt hook up little giant filters. water was clear LOTS of lillies. It is man made about 3000 gallons. We didnt hook up waterfall either last year or this year. Just had two pumps pumping about water level for winter(hole).
We have lots of fish-HAD
one large 5 year old was missing this year. koi was brown and hint of yellow metallic. He turned a nasty yellow dull metallic last year. That was odd- any thoughts on that too?
One smaller koi-baby from about 4 years ago is missing too.
LOTS of the orange/gray/white baby gold fish were dropping like flies. Some appeared to be bleeding from inside. Only a couple remain. I did buy three new fish 2sasara,koi. I thought maybe I got bad fish from store. But they are all fine. well except one is missing. hopefully still hiding. The bigger koi are fine and some other koi babies from about 3 years ago all seem fine. New koi is metallic darker yellow - sorta bronze. I think I will call him  SPEEDY. he is fast! some of the bigger guys fins look worn or missing in parts. Well we hooked up the pump and water falls. I treated with stuff in light green bottle starts with m sorry cannot remember the name. A few days late I read the PARASITE GUARD and treated with that. I have anchors away too but more listed on parasite guard and mention of red body on there too. My question is do you think it was the duck poop(parasites) Why this year and never before? Like I mentioned last year no filters and no waterfall and ducks present. Seemed to hang out longer this year than previous years. Thanks for your reply. Tammy Janesville, WI
 
i see just a couple orange baby fish in there. The gray ones appeared purple in the water(blood maybe)
My catfish is still in there about 8 inches. I think akid tossed him in once. He seems to get along fine with others.
All the fish seems lethargic when others started floating. they were not excited when you brought food anymore.
 
If parasites does it affect the wee ones more?\
 
 I did find one fish in half.ick !(
 
thanks again

[tranquility]

Oh my you have alot going on in there..first off are you positive the water parimeters in check--check those first(ammonia, nitrates,nitrites, and ph) either buy a water testing kit or take a sample into a pet store and they should be able to test it(and please give us numbers--not just"well the water is O.K.--that doesn't really tell us anything)...lets rule out water quality especially if you say you have ducks--I did read that right? and then if that comes out good then lets look at parasites-But, please stop dumping meds in to the pond for now--you don't know what or even if they have parasites at this point...I have seen alot of issues with fish just to find out it was water quality or filter was soo dirty it was causing problems--you need to understand that not all treatments can be mixed and dying fish doesn't always mean parasites...also are the fish gasping at the top like they are wanting more Oxygen--how much water are you moving? is there plenty of airation? also before adding meds do you have salt in the pond?

 first though please get the water tested and then go from there...also if there is ducks are you sure the ducks aren't causing the damage---or maybe heron?
Lawanna

[tranquility]

oh and the color change really doesn't concern me--koi can and do change color and loose color--it seems to be faster and more dramatic if your having water quality issues though...we had a doitsu hariwake go totally white when we were having ammonia issues in a matter of 7 days...
Lawanna

[Julles]

I agree, test the water, and then please post the results.

Is there a predator that could be attacking the fish - for the torn fins and blood?  Turtle, heron, raccoon? 

Is there some way you can rig up a filter?  Clean water is important to fish health, especially as they grow and put more stress on their environment (meaning, more fish poop, amonia, nitrates, etc.)

Is it possible to do a full or partial water change?

[tranquility]

a water change would be good but, I'd take the water test first...simply because ammonia,nitrates and nitrites are reduced by water changes only...so if you do a large water change before you test the water then it will be an inaccurate reading...
Lawanna

[misstammy]

Sorry I forgot to mention they were not gasping. It is about 3000 gallons. One 2000 gph pumps w/o filtration. the other 3000 gallon pump has 1/2 of water going to a 3000 gallon little giant filter. the other half goes to the other one. As I mentioned the water fall was not running and the filters we not hooked up. They are and things seem okay now. The 3000 gallon pump goes to the water fall with two 2' hoses and then onto those filters. Lilies cover about 1/2 of pond. Sun exposure is over about 4 pm. As I mentioned the little fish looked like they were bleeding from the inside. I did an=bout a 25 % water change to treat with parasite guard. The filters leak when full so have to add a fee inches of water every few days. WE HATE these filters. They leak so quickly. Would like new one some day!! Would a water guality issue make it look like the fish were bleeding inside? I will try to get a test kit soon. The guys that are left, as I said seem fine. Are the smaller fish weaker if parasites or bad water? I wish I could find those missing fish. Of BTW no heron or coons. I think maybe a coon scratched one once and he died too but they cannot get in the pond. I have TALL sides and no shallow end. I will try to post a pic. not sure it will help though to see the whole pond . I recall posting pics on awgs was tricky.
Is this the old awgs site or have many come here from there? Thanks
 
Yep I do not have a clue anymore how to post image. I clicked on the box and it put a here.
Please tell me how aagain Thanks

[tranquility]

hun I've never heard of parasites causing internal bleeding...the thing to look for with parasites are clamped fins, staying either top surface or bottom,flashing,gulping air at the top and then blowing under water to try and dislodge gill flukes....of course the same symptoms are also noticed when its a water quality issue..of course they can get intestinal worms too but, I would suspect it would take a killer over load to even cause the bleeding...there is a shotgun treatmeant for parasites but, I would rule out any other issues first--because I just had to do one on my 2,000 pond and it cost me right at $150 to do it...So I'd put that off if you can--look into the water quality issues and preditors first if you continue to loose fish then we can talk about the shotgun treatment....
Lawanna

[misstammy]

My fav yellow Koi- He died last year late spring. No apparent reason. I have a new Koi he is small. Darker yellow metallic(no pic yet) we call him SPEEDY. Some pics of the ducks and other fish. It has been a long time since I could count most of my fish on two hands. 

I found how to do pics. I see in additional you can just attach. I do recall the needing of http. Could put the pics on the old site with http.
 
Okay I am frustrated now. How can one pic file be too big??

[misstammy]

No flashing either. The jar of parasite guard mentioned red in the fins or even in the body.

[KatFish]

Best way to post pics here is to use photobucket or some similar service.  We'd love to help if we can!

[Kittyzee]

I think you may have water quality issues like tranquility says.  I've seen my daughter's fishes gills look blood red when the ammonia is too high in the water.  It usually kills.

[misstammy]

They were out of the outdoor pond reading kit. After I bought this I think I have some test strips in the basement. They sold me fresh/saltwater strips and said they would work just fine. Yes they work and nowwhere does it tell you what reading mean for OUTDOOR fish 
So here is what I have maybe you caan help me thanks
gh- 180 I guess
kh-240
ph 8.0
no2- .02
no4- 0-20- not sure on exact color- would say closer to 0

[misstammy]

Shoot- no amonia test on this strip- have to find those other strips.

[tranquility]

o.k. our testing kits aren't the same-both of mine go from 0-.25..the difference may be that your using strips and I use drops(they are alot more accurate) ...but, since both the nitrite and nitrate need to be 0 and you are having some elevated readings---I'm gonna assume your ammonia is up a bit to...however, I don't think those readings would cause death...keep up your water changes I'd do another 15%--and test again in a few hours--sounds to me like your filters are just cycling--I never turn mine off because even though your bio bugs die back in the winter they come back on line faster if you can leave the pumps and filters on line all the time...
 

  For now---get an ammonia testing kit--I think you should be able to get them seperate with out buying a whole nother kit--I also am using an aquarium fresh water testing kit--thats fine they work the same....test ammonia...if they are elevated(I suspect they are if your nitrate and nitrites are then stop feeding(they can go a few weeks with out being fed and do fine) until your levels drop back down to 0 (but, I am guilty of feeding a few tidbits every 2-3 days --but, not much)...test the water in the morning and in the evening if possible every day so you can make adjustments if needed (if it comes up--then do a water change..If comes down then Yay your on your way down)..and remember only water changes will bring it back down untill the filters kick in....I'd keep up the 10% water changes every 2-3 days until I see a big fat 0 on ammonia,nitrites, and nitrates....once you do then hold off on the water changes and keep testing--but, knock it down to one time daily--if  you can go  7 days without any readings then more than likely your filter has cycled---and you can continue ponding as normal....I'd still test every few days for a while just to make sure it has cycled...

Lawanna

[tranquility]

I also forgot to mention that yes water quality problems can lead to parasite outbreaks --but, lets bring those numbers down and hopefully that will take care of your problems--if not then we start talking about treatment for parasites--I'm thinking your problems are just bad water from a cycling pond though...also keep a look out for predators(I'm not ready to rule those out just yet-turtles,heron, coons or even ferel cats since you've found a fish cut in half)
 also if you hate those filters then consider some diy ones that are posted here and on other forum in the diy/pond construction sections....all of ours are diy and I love them...
Lawanna