Author Topic: Rebuilding A Water Fall..  (Read 5087 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« on: April 04, 2011, 10:06:31 AM »
Hello,

Just thought I would share a few pics of my new waterfall \ riverbed Its powered by a Rio 1,200 power head. The head presser is 3.5 feet. Pumping in to a 50 gal overflow tub down the falls too a 20 gal nano pond off again down the fall to my performed 90 gal pond.The electrical is being wired up as I type this:fish:

There will be no man made filtration for this pond I feel mother nature knows best and she will tell me when the pond achieves a balance with fish stock and aquatic plants.


If you have any suggestions please feel free to comment. Enjoy the pics thanks for peeping, Peace.







 

Offline Tadpole

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Age: 83
  • location: Pensacola, Florida
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 30/01/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 08:51:29 PM »
Filtration is an absolute must. Mother Nature would never build a permanent pond that small to support fish of any species. In nature, ponds that small are called vernal ponds because they are seasonal and disappear as the seasons progress. Even with filtration, a 90 gallon shallow basin will not accommodate many plants and maybe only 3 or 4 Goldfish, absolutely no Koi.

Offline Indiana Karen

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1643
  • location: Indiana, Zone 6a
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 09/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 08:27:49 AM »
Looks great  O0

I think you will have lots of nice "sounds" coming from your falls.  We turned ours off for the winter, just turned them back on the other day.   o(:-)

Welcome to the forum!!!

Karen

Offline labs2006

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 16
  • Age: 62
  • With us since: 27/05/2010
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2011, 05:50:07 PM »
looks like a nice little fall & pond. welcome to the forum.

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2011, 05:52:34 AM »
Thanks for the warm welcome..

Tadploe, You don't say that little pond has had 3 3-4" koi in it since last spring, 2 Comets 1-2 " long all are doing great WITH NO FILTER I can take a pic if you like.The water is crystal clear with  no measurable N P or ammonia...  You see mother nature has been ponding far longer than any of us and will strike a balance with fish plants and micro life. Once you try a pond with no filter you will never want one of those  oxygen sucking, spewing Nitrate\Nitrogen back into the water column. Not only that they cloud the water!


Now I am not trying to get anyone to get rid of there filter if you want to use one by all means go for it, But please don't try to tell me it will not support any life as I know for a fact that is an erroneous statement.. {nono} {nono}

 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 05:56:41 AM by Pond Boy »

Offline Tadpole

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Age: 83
  • location: Pensacola, Florida
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 30/01/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2011, 10:41:38 AM »
Thanks for the warm welcome..

Tadploe, You don't say that little pond has had 3 3-4" koi in it since last spring, 2 Comets 1-2 " long all are doing great WITH NO FILTER I can take a pic if you like.The water is crystal clear with  no measurable N P or ammonia...  You see mother nature has been ponding far longer than any of us and will strike a balance with fish plants and micro life. Once you try a pond with no filter you will never want one of those  oxygen sucking, spewing Nitrate\Nitrogen back into the water column. Not only that they cloud the water!


Now I am not trying to get anyone to get rid of there filter if you want to use one by all means go for it, But please don't try to tell me it will not support any life as I know for a fact that is an erroneous statement.. {nono} {nono}

 

It was never stated that a pond that small would not support life. A thimble full of water will support life. What was stated was PERMANENT ponds of such small capacity do not exist in nature; and it is because, as you stated, mother nature knows what she is doing and has refined the processes involved over millions of years.

Mother nature does provide bioconversion, but only at a level that will support a healthy population of aquatic fauna. Certain parameters are required to support this bioconversion level. First (and most important) is water surface area, for this is where  Oxygen is obtained through gaseous transfer. Sufficient Oxygen levels are critical not only for the fish, but primarily for the nitrifying bacteria. Secondly in importance is the surface area of the underwater substrate upon which nitirifying bacteria will colonize. This surface area is much greater in a natural pond with a sand or gravel substrate than in a bare surface fabricated pond. Granted that you may have sufficient bacteria at present colonizing the surfaces of your pond and the rhizospheres of your plants to adequately support a population of 5 baby fish, but these fish will grow and with this growth will be an increased Oxygen demand and a greater nutrient load added to the water column. At some point in the future a tipping point will be reached, as the fish grow larger, where the bacteria level cannot cope with the additional nutrients and you will experience algae blooms, reduced Oxygen levels, fish stress and possible mortality.
This is why biofiltration (more correctly termed bioconversion) units are necessary. These are not unnatural. They are providing the same function for a fabricated system that mother nature would provide for a naturally occurring permanent body of water.
The unnatural list would include: UV clarifiers, chemical treatments, copper ionizers, ultra-sonic algae control devices, ad nauseum.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck. :) :)

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2011, 12:03:38 PM »
Thanks for the warm welcome..

Tadploe, You don't say that little pond has had 3 3-4" koi in it since last spring, 2 Comets 1-2 " long all are doing great WITH NO FILTER I can take a pic if you like.The water is crystal clear with  no measurable N P or ammonia...  You see mother nature has been ponding far longer than any of us and will strike a balance with fish plants and micro life. Once you try a pond with no filter you will never want one of those  oxygen sucking, spewing Nitrate\Nitrogen back into the water column. Not only that they cloud the water!


Now I am not trying to get anyone to get rid of there filter if you want to use one by all means go for it, But please don't try to tell me it will not support any life as I know for a fact that is an erroneous statement.. {nono} {nono}

 

It was never stated that a pond that small would not support life. A thimble full of water will support life. What was stated was PERMANENT ponds of such small capacity do not exist in nature; and it is because, as you stated, mother nature knows what she is doing and has refined the processes involved over millions of years.

Mother nature does provide bioconversion, but only at a level that will support a healthy population of aquatic fauna. Certain parameters are required to support this bioconversion level. First (and most important) is water surface area, for this is where  Oxygen is obtained through gaseous transfer. Sufficient Oxygen levels are critical not only for the fish, but primarily for the nitrifying bacteria. Secondly in importance is the surface area of the underwater substrate upon which nitirifying bacteria will colonize. This surface area is much greater in a natural pond with a sand or gravel substrate than in a bare surface fabricated pond. Granted that you may have sufficient bacteria at present colonizing the surfaces of your pond and the rhizospheres of your plants to adequately support a population of 5 baby fish, but these fish will grow and with this growth will be an increased Oxygen demand and a greater nutrient load added to the water column. At some point in the future a tipping point will be reached, as the fish grow larger, where the bacteria level cannot cope with the additional nutrients and you will experience algae blooms, reduced Oxygen levels, fish stress and possible mortality.
This is why biofiltration (more correctly termed bioconversion) units are necessary. These are not unnatural. They are providing the same function for a fabricated system that mother nature would provide for a naturally occurring permanent body of water.
The unnatural list would include: UV clarifiers, chemical treatments, copper ionizers, ultra-sonic algae control devices, ad nauseum.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck. :) :)

I guess will will just agree to disagree.. {:-P;;. All the surfaces in the pond, waterfall, riverbed will become colonize with beneficial bacteria thus giving a filter in its self. Then add aquatic plats to the mix bam one has all the filter that pond WILL NEED with a heavy fish load and all. Sure if you gonna overload said system it will fail any pond will do that with or with out a man made filter. Now if this is considered a failure then I guess I am guilty as charge. lol So you may wanna give it a try sometime trust me it works much better without a man made filter..Now I am not saying man made filter dose not have a place in the world of ponding they certainly do but once you achieve the goal of quality water remove the filter it is no longer needed and watch in amazement as the water will be clearer than it ever has been...






And the water today..





« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 12:18:39 PM by Pond Boy »

Offline Tadpole

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Age: 83
  • location: Pensacola, Florida
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 30/01/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2011, 12:46:37 PM »
I have been a Pondkeeper, designer, installer and consultant for 15 years and have at one time or another tried it all. It all boils down to the hard facts of Freshwater chemistry and biology. I stand by my statements as they are based on years of research, not by me, but by the scientific community. An aquatic eco-system MUST conform to certain minimum criteria to achieve and maintain ecological equilibrium otherwise it will eventfully fail.

Your beliefs do not change accepted scientific facts which, BTW, happen to coincide with the accepted BMPs of the greater Pond and Koi keeping community.

Again, sir, I wish you luck.

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2011, 01:07:06 PM »
I have been a Pondkeeper, designer, installer and consultant for 15 years and have at one time or another tried it all. It all boils down to the hard facts of Freshwater chemistry and biology. I stand by my statements as they are based on years of research, not by me, but by the scientific community. An aquatic eco-system MUST conform to certain minimum criteria to achieve and maintain ecological equilibrium otherwise it will eventfully fail.

Your beliefs do not change accepted scientific facts which, BTW, happen to coincide with the accepted BMPs of the greater Pond and Koi keeping community.

Again, sir, I wish you luck.

 All the accreditation you mention in admirable I'll give you that. But I will say the proof is in the pudding I have been ponding installing ponds,bogs, reef tanks,propagating corals hard\ soft, fresh water planted tanks you name it I have tried it as well for over 25 years my friend. A bio filter you mention for use is a drag on any well kept system. Do your research I'm not gonna do it for ya all the accreditation don't mean squat in real life situation to me you can have all the papers you want that say this and that. If you over load any system it will fail all your doing is kicking the can down the road adding a bio filter.

One still has to do regular cleaning on any pond/ water garden it is much less hassle the way I do it works for me and others so why change? You like the way you set up a water feature fine by me do it your way but please don't come to this thread and make a blanket statement and not expect a rebuttal then get your underwear in a bunch because we do not agree. ::)

ETA I will be updating this thread with pics through out the growing season to show the progress of my small pond and my buddies much larger pond run the same as mine and some other clientele I have , Peace.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 01:17:37 PM by Pond Boy »

Offline Tadpole

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Age: 83
  • location: Pensacola, Florida
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 30/01/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2011, 01:49:09 PM »
I respect your beliefs.

This discussion reminds me of one I had over a year ago on a different Forum basically on the same subject. The difference being, at that time, the other gentleman was 'Koi Kichi" and insisted that there was no other way to install a pond correctly than with BDs, sieves, trickle towers, foam fractionators and all the other 'bells and whistles' that are presently available. He also thought that the scientific community was full of you-know-what. You and him would have a great discussion.

Peace to you.

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2011, 04:02:43 AM »
Its all good Tadpole, One thing I have learned over the years what works for you may not for me thats the cool part of this adventure we never stop learning... O0

Offline cindy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 238
  • location: kentucky
  • With us since: 25/02/2007
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2011, 11:59:18 AM »
Koi grow quickly. Each koi ideally needs 100 gallons of water.

Curious, are you doing weekly water changes?

Offline Tadpole

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Age: 83
  • location: Pensacola, Florida
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 30/01/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2011, 12:11:27 PM »
Koi grow quickly. Each koi ideally needs 100 gallons of water.

And that's a conservative figure. I have heard of Show quality Koi kept at one per 1000 gallons. They do need ample space to exercise.

Offline cindy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 238
  • location: kentucky
  • With us since: 25/02/2007
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2011, 12:34:39 PM »
Here's one of my koi kids, Gherkin. Biggest koi are about 24 inches.

My ponds aren't huge but I have to have filtration, mechanical and biofilters and extra air.  Water changes every week, at least 10%. Big koi= big ammonia and poo.

They are fond of eating at least 2 times a day, they love oranges and watermellon, shrimp and dark lettuce, green beans and watercress.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 12:37:06 PM by cindy »

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2011, 05:15:09 AM »
Ye s I do water changes every week prolly bout 30%. Very nice koi it huge! LOL

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2011, 08:41:44 AM »
A few new pics..Enjoy!














Offline Tadpole

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Age: 83
  • location: Pensacola, Florida
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 30/01/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2011, 08:46:21 AM »
Looks nice. Don't see any fish, did you convert to a Water Garden?

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2011, 10:48:04 AM »
Thanks for the kind words tadpole.. Yes there are bout 11 fish in there they hide out till evening I will snap some pics then.

Offline miguynmkoi

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Members
  • Posts: 7003
  • Age: 2019
  • location: SoOC/CALIFORNIA Zone 10b
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Smile!
  • With us since: 23/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2011, 06:08:20 PM »
Great plants!  what is the name of your blue lily?  I think I have the same one but I mixed up my tag when I repotted a couple of years ago.  Lotus pads are promising flower buds for sure!

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2011, 06:52:13 AM »
It's an Indian water goddess that is a prolific bloomer. The blooms last for 2 days and before it dies off another starts..

Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2011, 09:18:06 AM »
As requested pics of my fish enjoy.... O0












Offline Pond Boy

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 03/04/2011
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Rebuilding A Water Fall..
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2011, 09:22:56 AM »
Some lily shots....











 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 
All photo's & content within copyright © 2006-2017 WorldWide WaterGardeners and it's membership "All Rights Reserved"