Water changes

[HEADACHE]

1) - How often do you do Water Changes on your Pond?

2) - What % do you change?

3) - When was your last Water Change made?

[Bob_A]

I never make water changes, just top off when it gets low.
Fish are doing well, never saw a need.

[dperry]

I haven't done a deliberate water change in my pond in 10 years.  I let the rain do that for me.

[HEADACHE]

So neither of you see a reason to remove poor quality water and replace with fresh?

Interesting

[Bob_A]

Why is it poor quality water?
The water is filtered through numerous pond plants and a bio filter.
I've had a pond for over 15 years and have only lost fish due to too much ice cover.

[HEADACHE]

Koi/Goldfish use up the Minerals & Nutrients found in Water, Plants & Filters don't add these back. Koi also release Pheromones that limit their growth. Without diluting these Pheromones with water changes Koi won't achieve their full potential. 

As the saying goes, "The Solution to Pollution is Dilution".

I'm just really surprised that the first two answers were "Never".

[Bob_A]

First of all, I have City of Chicago water. Pretty sure that there is not much of in the way of minerals and nutrients in it.
Like I already stated, my fish are doing fine.
If it's not broke don't fix it.

[HEADACHE]

Bob, I believe you're more of a Water Feature Hobbyist than a Koi Hobbyist. Please don't take that the wrong way, both are fine, just different.

I have several friends in the Chicago area with Ponds. Next time I see them I'll ask them about their water conditions.


The big thing in the Koi Hobby in the last couple years is called "Flow Through". This is where a constant slow flow of fresh water enters the pond and the excess flows out to grass, etc. Hobbyist aren't doing this for the fun of it, there's a reason.


Thanks for the Post

[Bob_A]

I would have a multi thousand dollar water bill if I attempted something like that.

[dperry]

I wouldn't call my pond just a "water feature".  It contains a large number of goldfish, a dozen golden orfes, one large catfish and a dozen or so painted turtles.  I'm a biologist who has worked at developing a pond that is a mature, well-balanced ecosystem that uses a large settling tank to remove solids, aeration from a waterfall in the summer and a bubbler in the winter, large surface area filters, and numerous submergent, emergent and floating plants to maintain the balance. Bacteria do a wonderful job of maintaining stable conditions.  The settling tank is an above-ground pool where I grow water lilies that would otherwise be eaten by my turtles.  Is is roughly a tenth of the volume of my pond and it gets drained each fall to flush out the accumulated detritus that is continually pumped from the bottom of the pond.  It is refilled then, each spring, so I guess you could consider that, along with rainfall and snowmelt, to be a water change.  I'm of the opinion that doing regular, significant, deliberate water changes (such as 10 to 20% per week as some do) is counterproductive as it sets the pond balance back.  It takes some 3 years for a pond to establish a good balance and the worst case scenario is when people do not include bottom drains in the pond design, drain the pond each spring, power wash and refill.  This is tantamount creating a brand-new pond each year and destroying the balance that was developing the year prior.  Philosophies (and budgets) for maintaining a pond differ greatly and, just like a**holes, everyone has one.  My opinion is that the almost OCD attitude about pond "cleanliness" and water clarity taken by many koi raisers borders on insanity.  I'm also of the opinion that what works for you can be very different from what works for someone else.  Do what makes you happy with your hobby and what you can afford.  If you paid what I have to pay for water on a pension, you'd look for something other than water changes to maintain the health of your pond and fish.  Biology is my answer.

[HEADACHE]

Don,

Sorry, To me you're not "Removing" anything if you're only Dumping the Settlement Tank once a Year. Sounds to me you're just "Collecting" & "Storing" it, as it's still in the Water Column, which is part of the "System" your Fish/Turtles are living in.

I agree with you on the Bottom Drains, they are maybe the most important to a proper filter design.

My 250gal. Settlement Chamber is fed by two BD's. It is Dumped twice a week during the growing season, the month before a Koi Show even more often. Think of it as Flushing a Toilet, the Toilet our fish are also living in.

I also agree with not cleaning a pond completely each year. If you're having to do this the design isn't right. It is true that the Bio takes three years to mature. If you clean out the pond every year you're starting over again and again (New Pond Syndrome).

Part of our differences is I might have one Koi that produces the waste of all of your fish together. There is no way a Filter can handle such a Waste Load and only be cleaned so little.


One Good Thing, We've got some posting going on here. Good Luck

[dperry]

If you don't think that the solids I collect in the settlement area are removed from the "water column", you are sadly mistaken.  You, then, also do not understand how natural ponds with healthy fish populations work.  There is little to be argued here, since you have your opinion and I have mine backed up by a master's degree in biology with an emphasis in aquatic biology and ecology.  Your one koi does not produce more waste than my goldfish. Sorry, pound for pound, they produce essentially the same amount of waste.  You asked how people were doing water changes.  You were given an answer.  You don't like what your heard.  There is little more to say except that next time I won't answer. Period.  Go ahead and do what makes you happy. What I'm doing has worked for years, continues to work and will work in the future.  AND, it isn't costing me an arm and a leg. Sorry, but I've read a great deal about the koi hobby and what they advocate.  Quite frankly, I think many of them are deluded and/or obsessive-compulsive.

[HEADACHE]

Never said Pound for Pound, most of my koi are over 30" and weigh 15lbs or more each. I'm not sure how many of your Goldfish it would take to equal that same weight.

We can agree to disagree, and if I came across harsh please except my apology.

I've been in the Fish Hobby since the Mid-70's, and from day one Water Changes have been part of route water maintenance for every type of fish I've been around. Not for only me, but breeders, dealers and on.


As I stated before, Good Luck.

[dperry]

I guess my only question would be, with that kind of long-term experience and self-assuredness that your methods are the way to do it, why would you bother to even ask the original question and then start denigrating the people who answer.  Doesn't sound very respectful of others' experiences.  Sorry to say this, but I've found that approach typical of koi people who like to do just what you've done.  There are, of course, other koi people who are not of that demeanor.  I just take offense at those who ask a question, don't agree with what they hear and then proceed to argue with why those people are "wrong".  Sorry, I just dropped out of a pond forum where arrogant people were unwilling to hear any new ideas or from those who might have a little more knowledge than they who then proceeded to go on the attack.  I'm quite willing to share what I know and have experienced, but I have no patience with this kind of interaction on a forum. I'm just too damned old for this kind of nonsense. Perhaps my best approach would be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

[HEADACHE]

I guess I didn't expect "Never" to be the answer I would hear. I understand there are different types of Hobbies within the Hobby.


I've Apologized above if my wording seemed Harsh, Anyone who knows me would tell you that's not how I handle myself.

[dperry]

Likewise, I apologize if I overreacted.  I have a YouTube site where people come to ask questions, particularly about the concrete work and mix recipes that I feature on it.  Nearly all people come seeking genuine answers to questions or to share what they have tried and found helpful, but there are also a significant share of people who, for whatever sick reason, leave comments that are hateful or deliberately provoking.  They also sometimes make remarks that are clearly ignorant of the subject matter that would guide readers in a wrong direction.  I've been told these people are referred to as "trolls" who get some kind of sick satisfaction by antagonizing others and provoking arguments.  I've become hypersensitive to people like that and have come to respond quickly, harshly, and with no patience whatsoever. I'm just too old for the BS and game-playing.