Author Topic: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?  (Read 1924 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jonna

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1738
  • location: Mérida, Yucatán, México
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 03/09/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Blah... blah... blah... Ginger!
Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« on: July 16, 2007, 07:20:08 PM »
I want to get some liquid bacteria to seed the new pond's bog and to boost the skippy on the big pond after I've torn it apart and put it back together.  Any difference or any preferences out there?  Where do you buy it? 

I will re-use the filter media although I might add some depending on what I find when I take the skippy apart.  Right now it has the Savio Spring flo tape and the Matala filter mats in it.  They are probably clogged with roots but I'll soak them and pull out what I can and use them again.

Offline miguynmkoi

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Members
  • Posts: 7003
  • Age: 2019
  • location: SoOC/CALIFORNIA Zone 10b
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Smile!
  • With us since: 23/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 07:31:45 PM »
I'm not positive nor am I a pro-anything but if you keep the media and gravel from the filter/bog without rinsing them you should be able to reuse the bacteria in the renewed setup.  Did I make any sense?

Sorry you have to find a leak at this late date.  Ah well busy busy busy!

Offline miguynmkoi

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Members
  • Posts: 7003
  • Age: 2019
  • location: SoOC/CALIFORNIA Zone 10b
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Smile!
  • With us since: 23/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 07:46:49 PM »
Just opened email and found something you may be interested in or not http://www.koiscapes.com/prod541.htmlWarning: I've never shopped here before.

Offline Jonna

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1738
  • location: Mérida, Yucatán, México
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 03/09/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Blah... blah... blah... Ginger!
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 10:07:56 PM »
That looks interesting.  Has anyone shopped at KoiScape?

I do think some of the bacteria will remain but it also depends on how long it is out of the skippy, and how much I have to rinse it to get the roots and stuff off.  I just thought it would be a good time to give it a boost.  Plus, we have the new pond to dose as well.

Offline thedahlialama

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Members
  • Posts: 362
  • Age: 67
  • location: norcal coast
  • Gender: Male
  • just grow it
  • With us since: 11/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • my photobucket site
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 11:57:41 PM »
first i would simply pour some buckets of the water from the old pond into the new one after all the chlorine is removed in the new water. i'd move a plant or two from old pond to the new one. any filter material you can move would be good as well. like was said earlier - don't use tap water to rinse with and you'll be fine. try to keep it all wet if possible - use buckets or tubs. remember the good bacteria doesn't just live in your filter. it lives throughout the pond, fillters are just designed to concentrate some of it and keep the water flowing thru the concentrate.

once you have a healthy pond, you've got more to jump start another one than you'll ever be able to buy in a bottle. O0
Our Pond & Watergardens
paradise should be at home

   

ed

Offline karen J

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1837
  • Age: 58
  • location: Wauconda, Illinois Zone 5
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 09/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Karen's Frog Pond
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 06:38:21 AM »
[...] remember the good bacteria doesn't just live in your filter. it lives throughout the pond, fillters are just designed to concentrate some of it and keep the water flowing thru the concentrate.

once you have a healthy pond, you've got more to jump start another one than you'll ever be able to buy in a bottle. O0

That's right. Which means that the best bacteria is the free bacteria... and all you need for that is fish poo.  O0

Karen
Northern Illinois, zone 5


http://www.pbase.com/karenfrogpond

Offline models916

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 60
  • Age: 73
  • location: Addison, IL
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 22/05/2007
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 09:10:49 AM »
It takes 6-8 weeks for the natural bacteria to multiply in the pond on their own. When I wash filters, I re-seed them with Microbelift PL. Pond is very clear and free of string. N levels 0. Microbe Lift selectivly breeds high performance microbes for ponds and lakes.

Offline Pa Nancy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 602
  • Age: 68
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 13/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 09:36:51 AM »
It takes 6-8 weeks for the natural bacteria to multiply in the pond on their own. When I wash filters, I re-seed them with Microbelift PL. Pond is very clear and free of string. N levels 0. Microbe Lift selectivly breeds high performance microbes for ponds and lakes.

If you use pond water to rinse your filters you would not have to use the Microbelift. Sounds like a pretty expensive routine. 

Personally I think that stuff is just snake oil. Never used it, never needed it.

Offline Johns

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Members
  • Posts: 818
  • Age: 85
  • location: Charlotte, North Carolina
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 10/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Garden Endeavors
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 02:22:01 PM »
Just my advice, worth what you pay for it:


We are told ad infinitum ad nauseum, that the useful bacterias Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacters are responsible for the conversion of ammonia into harmless nitrates.  Notwithstanding research that apparently calls this common knowledge into question, we are also told that these bacteria need a constant supply of ammonia and oxygen in order to remain alive and that simply allowing our filter systems to be shut down for a matter of hours will render them useless until they can be "recycled".

Most of us take the above "to the bank", regurgitating this "common knowledge" over and over again in instructing newbies in the fine points of keeping fish.

But if  it is true that the bacterias (or whatever else it is that is converting the ammonia to nitrate) need both ammonia (food) and oxygen to survive, how does it survive sealed in a bottle for months on end?????

My best advice:  Hold your fish aside (In a filtered environment, of course) when setting up a new or recently cleaned pool, and either add some of the gunk saved from the filter before cleaning, and pee in the pool (or add a little urea or ammonium nitrate), and monitor the ammonia level in the pool until it is safe and re-introduce your fish, and save your money on pool bacteria additives.  WARNING! Never move fish into water that differs substantially in PH from what they are in.

Been doing this since 1972, only bought "bacteria" once, saw no utility in it.

But, the more you pay, the more it's worth.......

Offline Jonna

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1738
  • location: Mérida, Yucatán, México
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 03/09/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Blah... blah... blah... Ginger!
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 06:10:30 PM »
OH-KAY!!!!  I'm not one to buy stuff I don't need (well, that was a lie but usually I only buy electronic stuff I don't need) so I will get out all the plastic half wine casks and the old preform pool and save some of the skippy water along with using it to wash the media.  I don't know about peeing in the new pond but maybe I can convince the dogs to do it.  ;D


Offline models916

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 60
  • Age: 73
  • location: Addison, IL
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 22/05/2007
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2007, 09:03:39 AM »
I only clean the skimmer brushes with tap water. The box filters get rinsed off once in the spring. If I don't add 4 oz. of PL once a week the string algae creeps up on me. Competing bacteria eat the nutrients that the sting need to survive. Bacteria can be forced into dormancy for packaging in a bottle. Just like over the winter most of the good stuff goes dormant and does not die. My concern is alway for the time it takes to re-multiply sufficiently for conversion. No need to pee in the pond just ad a little bottled amonia from the store. Make sure there are no fish in the pond at the time. It's really all about balance. Sometimes you can get it all right with feeding the fish and proper shade and enough plants and filtration.

Offline karen J

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1837
  • Age: 58
  • location: Wauconda, Illinois Zone 5
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 09/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Karen's Frog Pond
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2007, 09:38:48 AM »
Quote
We are told ad infinitum ad nauseum, that the useful bacterias Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacters are responsible for the conversion of ammonia into harmless nitrates.  Notwithstanding research that apparently calls this common knowledge into question...

Indeed. It was always assumed that Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter were the responsible bacteria because, hey, that's what we find in soil, and that's what they do in soil.

But that's not all we find in soil...
Karen
Northern Illinois, zone 5


http://www.pbase.com/karenfrogpond

Offline Johns

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Members
  • Posts: 818
  • Age: 85
  • location: Charlotte, North Carolina
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 10/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Garden Endeavors
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2007, 02:15:12 PM »
Karen J,

The more we learn, the more we become aware of what we don't know.  You will enjoy the information (Some, of course seemingly contradictory) on these  URLs:  Suffice it to say, the jury may still be out.


 

http://www.mdsg.umd.edu/programs/extension/aquaculture/Aquafarmer/Spring01/index.php#6


http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp


http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/62/8/2888.pdf

Offline karen J

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1837
  • Age: 58
  • location: Wauconda, Illinois Zone 5
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 09/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Karen's Frog Pond
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2007, 09:58:51 PM »
Karen J,

The more we learn, the more we become aware of what we don't know.  You will enjoy the information (Some, of course seemingly contradictory) on these  URLs:  Suffice it to say, the jury may still be out.


Johns,
I do enjoy the information, and appreciate it. Thank you for posting it.
That last one may have me confounded for a few days.  ;)  Must digest...  ;)

The more I learn, the more dumb I feel...

Quote
No need to pee in the pond just ad a little bottled amonia from the store

But the pee is free! Where does that "bottled ammonia from the store" come from anyway? I suspect that it is simply leftovers from WWII...
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 10:18:13 PM by karen J »
Karen
Northern Illinois, zone 5


http://www.pbase.com/karenfrogpond

Offline Johns

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Members
  • Posts: 818
  • Age: 85
  • location: Charlotte, North Carolina
  • Gender: Male
  • With us since: 10/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Garden Endeavors
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2007, 08:39:18 AM »
Karen J,

You crack me up!

BTW,  Wauconda illinois??

I was born in Calumet city, spent 10 years in Decatur/Peoria/Champaign. Have neice in Northbrook and wife's sister in Plainfield.  Lordy, did i hate the winters in illinois!

Offline frloplady

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Members
  • Posts: 673
  • location: Cowiche, WA
  • With us since: 10/08/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2007, 02:16:55 PM »
first i would simply pour some buckets of the water from the old pond into the new one after all the chlorine is removed in the new water. i'd move a plant or two from old pond to the new one. any filter material you can move would be good as well. like was said earlier - don't use tap water to rinse with and you'll be fine. try to keep it all wet if possible - use buckets or tubs. remember the good bacteria doesn't just live in your filter. it lives throughout the pond, fillters are just designed to concentrate some of it and keep the water flowing thru the concentrate.

once you have a healthy pond, you've got more to jump start another one than you'll ever be able to buy in a bottle. O0

Want to keep it moist, but not wet in water.  Rinse in pond water and put in a cool place in a plastic bag.

I'd not bother buying bio bug stuff.  Testing on most of shows that a filter from scratch will cycle in 63 days without it and in 6 weeks with it....  :o

Best way to seed a filter is with gunk from another filter.  Know another ponder you trust that can clean one of their filters into a bucket for you??
Mary


Offline Jonna

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Members
  • Posts: 1738
  • location: Mérida, Yucatán, México
  • Gender: Female
  • With us since: 03/09/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Blah... blah... blah... Ginger!
Re: Recommendations for biological filter bacteria?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2007, 01:56:34 AM »
Oh, I'll have plenty of gunk from the skippy I have to clean out.  I'll keep some to re-start that skippy and some for the new pond.  Lots of gunk because I haven't been able to drain off the bottom of the skippy for the last couple weeks as the drain is what is leaking and I don't want to make it worse.  As it is, I'm adding about 8" of water twice a day, morning and night.  The pond is getting a 10% water change every day.  The water is very clear and the fish seem perky so I guess it's all good. I'm using a lot of water conditioner and koi clay every 3 or 4 days.

Keeping the media cool will be the hard part.  It's been over 110* here for weeks and the shop where I can store it isn't normally air conditioned.  Hopefully we can get this all done in 1 or 2 days. 

Silly me, I was out in the heat for hours this afternoon dividing Cannas and replanting them.  Tonight I was having muscle cramps and finally got a couple more bottles of water down and took some muscle relaxers.  I think I just got a little dehydrated. 

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 
All photo's & content within copyright © 2006-2017 WorldWide WaterGardeners and it's membership "All Rights Reserved"