soft water and goldfish -- how bad is it?

[PondFish]

Hi pond folks and fish people.  I have discovered the fact that goldfish thrive in much harder water than I am currently providing.  I have a well with a water softener system. (It adds potassium not salt).  Anyone know what the long term effects of soft water (basically zero hardness) is on goldfish?  Should I harden it up? If so how?  Bypassing the softener is possible but difficult.  Any help/suggestions/feedback greatly appreciated.  Pondfish.

[Julles]

Well, I don't have a clue at all.  But here in Houston, we have pretty darned hard water (lime deposits all around faucets and toilet bowls).  Of course, my pond water is treated, but I've never tested to see what the PH is.  I've had some of my goldfish for probably 10 years or so.

Beyond that, and what others pop up with here, I'm sure you could Google and learn something there.

[CT]

No hardness (Kh/Gh) is very bad. It allows the Ph to swing and eventually crash (less than Ph 6) stressing and killing your fish. Baking soda will increase your Kh, (carbonate hardness) keeping your Ph stable. Salicylate test kits for Kh and Ph will allow you to know what is going on in the pond and give you a clue as to what you need to do to.
Here is a link to a baking soda calculator for ponds
http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp
Here's one for aquariums and small ponds
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/CalKH.asp?Gallons=39&KH=20&measure=1&Baking+Soda+%28Teaspoons%29=0.84&SKH=145&EKH=165&pHChange=0.08
I would suggest that if you haven't, join Koiphen (it's free) and look up Roark's excellent article on Ph. I don't think I can link to them but I'll try. The article is in the library there.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62726&highlight=Roddy+swings
The key to goldfish is that whatever the water parameters (they tolerate a wide range of things) you need to go slow with any changes and stability is key.
That said, test your tap water, then test your pond Ph morning and night for a while. That will let you know if the Ph is swinging and will allow you to make the decision on if you want to treat your water. Have you been losing fish?
Kay

[frloplady]

Baking soda will increase the KH and stabilize your PH.

To increase the GH you will need to use epsom salt.  Again Roddy Conrad on Koiphen has some excellent articles on both Kh, GH and PH.  He is a great guy!

[PondFish]

thanks for the feedback.

ph of tap water is 7.53.  Total hardness 1.2, sodium 2.8.  Had tank water tested at pet store.  ph 8, no ammonia, nitrates, nitrites.

Pond fish have been in this tap water since June with no difficulty.  Have 10 gal tank indoors for winter.  Yes, I have lost fish in 10 gal, but does not seem to be water hardness or ph, but yuck which built up in pea gravel over three months.  Guess I put too much gravel in.  Am currently mystified with the 10 gal mystery.  I have washed that tank with salt water and put in fresh gravel, but after about a week "Dimples" started to act catatonic until I moved her to a different tank.  She perks right up in a different tank -- same tap water.  that truly seems to be a problem not related to hardness or lack thereof.  The feeders in the 10 gal did fine for three months, but began to weaken and die with each 10% weekly water change. My only suspect is the fish waste yuck I discovered in the pea gravel.

Again, no difficulty with pond fish.  I feel water softness is a longer term issue -- will fish thrive or not in such water?  I will look at Roark's article but ph is not an issue I believe, although I don't know if it is fluctuating significantly.  I have resisted getting ph crazy, but maybe I need to check for fluctuations.   I will check Roddy Conrad on Koiphen about GH.

Any advice or observations on 10 gal tank mystery would be appreciated.  Why would fish react so negatively to a 10% water change?  Is ph swing most likely cause? If so, why would it take three months to become a problem? Could some other delicate balance maintained in tank with yucky pea gravel have been disturbed by addition of new water besides ph?  Again, the water in the tank tested fine for ph, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia.  Could bacteria which wasn't tested for be culprit? 

Keeping goldfish indoors in such small tanks is a challenge.  I intend to put the feeders into the pond come May or June -- if I can get any to survive!

Again, I appreciate your help.  Don't know how clear I've been.  Pondfish

[CT]

Suggestion:
  Move the fish, ditch the gravel, lighten the fish load or increase the tank size (2 small goldies per 10 gallons for a short time is maxing out the tank capacity IMHO), filter and aerate. Continue with the water changes, match Ph and water temperature to what's in the tank. Test your water for a while so you know what's going on in there. If you don't you are just guessing as to what is wrong. Most likely the gravel is anaerobic (rotten egg smell?), stirring it up with water changes is probably the problem.
Good information here.
http://www.thegab.org/


Kay

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