Another fish dead! What do you think is the cause?

[Julles]

This morning, I found my beautiful new blue ghost fish (he has actual baby blue on his face) very dead and puffy and floaty in the pond. 

Yesterday afternoon, when all the others were swimming around like crazy hoping for food, I had a hard time spotting him.  I think he was hiding, and possibly begining the decline that many fish get when they are introduced to a new pond and are not acclimated to that particular biological environment.  I've had him a little more than two weeks, and thought he had been in the pond long enough, and that he was so big and hearty at the begining (the biggest and most expensive fish I've ever bought, about 1' or so), that he would overcome that issue. 

But I can't think of any other reason for him to have died.  Something had taken a few bites out of him, but this had to have been post-mortum, as no live, strong koi of 1' would have let himself be chomped on.  Probably one of the baby turtles I have in there, until they're large enough to not be eaten by the adult turtles - would not have attacked and killed the fish.

I don't think he was attacked from above, as if by a bird or raccoon.  No marks to indicate that.

Any other ideas for why he would have died?

[Sunbeam56]

Tons of possibilities. Julles.
Any other fish acting off? 

[Johns]

julles,

My first thought: (And I hate flaming someone, so give me a break here), Only an idiot would keep turtles and koi in the same pond on purpose.

That said, there are inumerable possibilities as to the death of your fish. Inspect the carcass carefully to rule out puncture wounds from heron or raccoon attack. If none are evident, and if none of your other fish are seemingly in distress, it is entirely possible that one of your turtles took a bite that resulted in an infection that caused your koi's demise.  By any chance, do you also have crawfish in your pond?


And, Oh, yeah, were there any guarantees given with the purchase?  And are you aware of the importance of quaranteening any new fish for a month to 6 weeks before introducing to your pond to keep from infecting your current stock with KHV?

[tinkster]

SO sorry about your fish jules!   I think sometimes we may never konw what happens to a sole fish that dies.  I sure hope you have nothing going on and just an isolated fishy.

tinkster

[Ruthie]

Julles....I am so sorry for your loss.  I know it was 2-3 weeks after moving my aunt's big fish that we lost four.  I can only assume that the stress of the move in combination with the change in water, plus any bugs they may or may not have had...it all meant dead fish.  It really upset me.

I hope this is just an isolated incident.

[miguynmkoi]

 :'(  That is too sad.  Hopefully all other fishy are fine.

[Cedric]

I think it's quite possible that a predator came in at night and took a few bites. Fish are quite vulnerable at night I have found. They seem to go into a state of rest. If the new fish wasn't so very familiar with it's surroundings it might have chosen a place to rest that wasn't very safe, like a shallow slope, where something like a racoon or even a hungry turtle could have taken a few quick bites.

If it was a crab or crawfish there would be scales everywhere and the fish looking a bit shredded. I once lost some prize goldfish to a blue crab that I put into the system, thinking it was quite attractive, and naively thinking it would happily pick over decaying matter. They looked like shredded golf balls (pearl scale) I had to drain the whole pond and remove it as it was next to impossible to find.

What a shame about your fish. Maybe better to introduce smaller fish rather, they are more likely to follow the others to safety at night.

It could've also succumbed to an over dose of bacteria it wasn't used to during delayed post moving trauma. Sometimes the immunity system either goes into overdrive or the other way around either way making the fish very vulnerable. There are so many possibilities, it could have been badly bruised during a fall before you bought it or during capture or transport, anytime.

ps-night time I have found is an excellent time to handle fish, assuming your water quality is perfect. I often sort fish at night with a blue light torch because they are easier to catch and the stress is minimal, you can just gently waft them into the net while they are roosting in the thick weed. Night time is not a good time to introduce fish though, so I keep them in a bucket filled with weed till morning to do that.

[karen J]

There are many things that could have killed that fish. Costia, Chilodinella, Ich, Flukes, Predators, Bacterial infections, Trauma (Turtles, Herons, etc)... list goes on and on. A Heron can and will take a 12" fish, especially if it's colorful. I've lost many Koi and Goldfish to the Heron.

Like what John's said, I'm surprised the fish was not Quarantined for at least 4 weeks before added to the pond.

[Rick]

If the koi was puffy and the scales where raised it could be pine cone?

[goldenangel]

I feel for you.  Hope you find out the cause.  I just lost one of my new koi's this morning.  Found him stuck in the pump.  I even had a screen on it to prevent this.  Guess that didn't work.  Never easy to loose a fish especially since we go to so much trouble to pick out the ones with the best coloring etc....

[cindy]

julles,

My first thought: (And I hate flaming someone, so give me a break here), Only an idiot would keep turtles and koi in the same pond on purpose.

That said, there are inumerable possibilities as to the death of your fish. Inspect the carcass carefully to rule out puncture wounds from heron or raccoon attack. If none are evident, and if none of your other fish are seemingly in distress, it is entirely possible that one of your turtles took a bite that resulted in an infection that caused your koi's demise.  By any chance, do you also have crawfish in your pond?


And, Oh, yeah, were there any guarantees given with the purchase?  And are you aware of the importance of quaranteening any new fish for a month to 6 weeks before introducing to your pond to keep from infecting your current stock with KHV?

Dr. Nick St. Ernes (vet that teaches our koi health advisor courses) keep turtles in his koi pond with no problem.

[cindy]

Back to the fish.  Do you have test kits for the water?  Always start with the water.

Ammonia
ph
nitrite
kH? 
Plenty of air
last water change?
Cleaning and dumping filters?

[Johns]

Cindy,

I stand by my comment abosolutely.  Your friend,  Dr. Nick St. Ernes may have had no priblems.. Yet.  He will, eventually, remove the turtles.  Being a Dr. of anything does not make one immune to the laws of nature. As I have said before, I have been doing this for longer ( 1963) than you or your Dr. friend may have been alive.  Turtles injure and eat fish.  Anyone who cares a twit about their fish will never introduce turtles into their environment.   Need a video?  See  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKKgqCvWyqE   

Nuff said..

Of course, this is just my own stupid opinion. You are allowed to make your own mistakes...

[miguynmkoi]

With my turtles I have to agree with John.  My 8 red ear sliders will never be in the same pond as my fish pets.  No way!  Not even if I had a very large pond like El Jefe's.  I wouldn't be able to do that. 

When they were babes I've seen them in action with feeder fish, given as a treat and real protein.  After 3 years they still love fish.  I thought they were suppose to slow down on meat.  NOTTT! 

[Julles]

I agree.  Just to clarify, these turtles are BABY turtles, about 1 1/2" long, and slow and clumsy.  When they get big enough that the adult turtles won't eat them (been there, done that), they will be moved to the designated turtle pond, which is in a seperate and secure part of the yard.