Author Topic: Rule of thumb ?? (Read 2816 times)

Cindi · « **on:** March 15, 2007, 06:03:27 AM »

Is there a rule of thumb that any of you ponders in cold weather follow as far as when to turn your pump and falls back on for the season? Do you wait until your water is a certain temperature and if so what is the magic temperature. This is my first spring with the pond and I have read that when your pond reaches a constant 45 degrees you can turn your pump back on. Anyone have any opinions on this number? I'm just wondering when I can safely turn my pump on and run my falls.

I'm happy to say the the last bit of ice melted off my pond yesterday and the water is crystal clear! Now I just need to keep it that way.

Oh and do any of you jump start your bacteria for the season with bio booster or something similar?

Johns · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2007, 06:35:53 AM »

Cindi,

If you have a UV light, crank it up. If not, you might consider getting one to keep down the algae bloom that often accompanies spring. As long as your ice is gone, go ahead and pump. I run my pumps 24/7/365, even with ice, but of course here in NC the weather is much less severe than in Michigan.

My opinion re: bacteria: Your fish carry all the bacteria you need in their guts. I truly believe that adding bacteria of any description to a pond makes about as much sense as popping electronic flashes while taking pictures at sports events since the flash only extends 15 feet and the object of the photo is over 100 feet away. If you really want to give your filter bacteria a boost, I have heard that peeing in the filter works as well as anything, although I have never tried it (Been ponding almost 40 years, never saw the need).

Now as to theory: Fish do not do well in small ponds (watergardens) when they are completley frozen over. Toxic gasses are produced via decomposition of organic matter and need to have an avenue of escape in order to avoid fish mortality. Therefore, even in coldest climates, an area of ice free water should be maintained and some areation and circulation of water is important for fish survival. Of course, there are considerations regarding side or bottom drains or skimmers, as well as water losses due to ice dams in waterfalls, but 24/7/365 water circulation is important for koi regardless of your climate.

Short version: If possible, run your pumps 365 days a year. If not, keep a portion of your pond ice free with a heater. Every pond is different, figure out what works for you and stick with it until it does not work.

CT · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2007, 07:28:48 AM »

Cindi,
I just take the old filter pad from my aquarium when it's warm enough for biobugs to grow in the pond and put it in the filter. I don't think it's really necessary but I have it so I use it. That's assuming the aquarium fish have been quarantined and they are healthy.
Johns,
Peeing in the filter? Really? Ok, aside from the visual of females trying to do that

..I guess it's the ammonia that feeds the growing biobugs?

Johns · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2007, 08:59:31 AM »

Kay,

That would be the concept, never tried it though

Cindi · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2007, 09:16:10 AM »

Quote from: Johns on March 15, 2007, 06:35:53 AM

Short version: If possible, run your pumps 365 days a year. If not, keep a portion of your pond ice free with a heater. Every pond is different, figure out what works for you and stick with it until it does not work.

I have a deicer and an aerator that I used to keep a hole in the ice. The deicer was only used when it got really cold, so basically for the month of February! LOL!!

So you are saying that water temp isn't really a factor on deciding when to turn the pump back on? My water temp at the bottom is 38 degrees right now.

Oh and the visual you created in my head when you talked about peeing in the filter was not good! LOL!!! Thanks for the laugh though!

CT · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2007, 10:09:22 AM »

Quote from: Johns on March 15, 2007, 08:59:31 AM

Kay,

That would be the concept, never tried it though

Well there's always a first time. We'll have bail money available

Esther · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2007, 10:45:55 AM »

Cindi, maybe you could train one of the dogs to do your peeing. Have you seen the stickers on the back windows of pickup trucks of the little boy peeing? Well why couldn't they make a pond "spitter" like that? Well maybe it wouldn't sell all that well. LOL.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2007, 02:17:45 PM »

Cindi, I leave mine running all winter and use tank heater to keep it open in frount of the skimmer. I'm sure it is safe to get it running now. I am a firm beliver in the good bacteria. I have used the Microb Lift products from the begening but I am now trying a cold water bacteria from The Pond Digger at ezotic equatics. They do help keep your water clearer and help prevent algae.

frloplady · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2007, 03:40:55 PM »

From what I've read on the bio bug boosters is that you can cycle the filter in about 43 days with it...without it it can take 6 weeks...... think about that one...

The best way to boost the bio in a new spring filter is to clean an existing filter be it in an aquarium or smaller indoor or heated pond. Dump that into the intake of the pump to the filter. That is real bio.

The bio bugs don't really start doing much until the temps are over 55. Is part why not to feed fish much until the water temp is over 55 and even then sparingly.

The problem with peeing in the pond

is again if the bio isn't running or not very strong is you boost the ammonia, what you don't need to do.

I have heard of people fishless cycling a filter with household ammonia (much more legal too

) for a quarantine tank or a new pond without fish.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2007, 04:01:19 PM »

Here is a lond to some very good stuff about bacteria. I hope it helps. he also has other good help here.
http://www.exoticwaterscapes.com/algae-pond-treatments.php The microb lift Autom and winter bacteria works even under ice. The one I'm trying now works in water 40 to 60*. and I got it from this site.

Cindi · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2007, 06:12:23 AM »

Quote from: happyoutsidegirl on March 15, 2007, 02:17:45 PM

Cindi, I leave mine running all winter and use tank heater to keep it open in frount of the skimmer. I'm sure it is safe to get it running now. I am a firm beliver in the good bacteria. I have used the Microb Lift products from the begening but I am now trying a cold water bacteria from The Pond Digger at ezotic equatics. They do help keep your water clearer and help prevent algae.

I never thought about keeping a hole open in the ice in front of the skimmer! That is a good idea and I may try that next year. My biggest fear is ice forming in the falls and water diverting out of my falls. I do have an auto shut off on my pump, but it scares me nonetheless.

Cindi · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2007, 06:13:32 AM »

Quote from: frloplady on March 15, 2007, 03:40:55 PM

From what I've read on the bio bug boosters is that you can cycle the filter in about 43 days with it...without it it can take 6 weeks...... think about that one...

That is an interesting number!!

Cindi · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2007, 06:14:30 AM »

Quote from: happyoutsidegirl on March 15, 2007, 04:01:19 PM

Here is a lond to some very good stuff about bacteria. I hope it helps. he also has other good help here.
http://www.exoticwaterscapes.com/algae-pond-treatments.php The microb lift Autom and winter bacteria works even under ice. The one I'm trying now works in water 40 to 60*. and I got it from this site.

Thanks for the link Debbie, I will go and check it out now.

emm · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2007, 07:03:49 AM »

Cindi, I too leave my pump running through our very cold winters. I disconnect the hose that supplies the waterfall and gravel filter area from the pump and allow it to bubble just below the water surface. I also have a 100 watt Thermopond de-icer over the spot that the pump bubbles. A nice hole stays open in the pond and the pump runs fine all winter. It sits in a "well" or "sump" hole that I dug at the side of the pond so if something were to go wrong and the water were to be diverted from the pump somehow it can't drain the pond, only the small sump area. This area is about 18" deep and although the pond has up to 3 feet of ice on it this area does not freeze more than a few inches deep. I drain the hoses (finish off with a wet vac) and cap them with plastic bags so that there is no water in them all winter. emm

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:46:25 PM »

Quote from: Cindi on March 16, 2007, 06:12:23 AM

Quote from: happyoutsidegirl on March 15, 2007, 02:17:45 PM
Cindi, I leave mine running all winter and use tank heater to keep it open in frount of the skimmer. I'm sure it is safe to get it running now. I am a firm beliver in the good bacteria. I have used the Microb Lift products from the begening but I am now trying a cold water bacteria from The Pond Digger at ezotic equatics. They do help keep your water clearer and help prevent algae.

I never thought about keeping a hole open in the ice in front of the skimmer! That is a good idea and I may try that next year. My biggest fear is ice forming in the falls and water diverting out of my falls. I do have an auto shut off on my pump, but it scares me nonetheless.

Yes ice dams are sometimes a problem I made my splash guard extra wide and high so I don't need to worry and I get wonderful ice follies.

Rocmon · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2007, 09:30:48 PM »

The only time I bought Microbe lift pl, as it's so highly recommended, I got it home after driving an hour to the place that sold it for a mere $25.00. I found that the seal on the bottle had been broken and that the bottle had leaked some prior to my obtaining it. I smelled the bottle, and there was no smell—that everyone says it has. I used it, and found it didn't make any noticeable difference, in fact the dry powder pondzyme product I had been using prior for $12.00 made a more noticeable difference. I wrote to the pondzyme folks and asked is this right? They never responded and I will never buy their product again. When given the opportunity to disclose a crummy company I will—it was their option to respond and chose to do nothing...

Koiphen had a good explanation about bottled bugs. The fact is, the good bacteria begin to die in as little as four hours. The stuff they put in bottles is a different kind of beast. So the gist of the discussion was, don't waste your money.

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51017

post #17 explains the difference between bugs in a bottle and bugs that convert ammonia.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2007, 04:20:59 AM »

I'm getting ready for work and don't have time to debate but try this link. and did you check out my previous one? If you bought a product that was un sealed you should have returned it. And yes it does smell. It is a good product and my pond is proof of it. I have done nothing all winter since Oct. but add the cold water product and now my water is chrystal clear. I did my vitals on it the other day and all are perfect. I do have a bit of fuzzies growing on the bottom and thats it. But It is a to each his own world.

http://microbelift.com/

Rocmon · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:21:34 PM »

The price of good advertising is making unhappy customers happy.

I have no intention to debate. I simply disclose my Microbe lift experience when ever I see people recommending it. I wrote to the manufacturer and they didn't care enough to even respond. In one of my posts awhile back someone said they started working for them and that never would have happened with her working there, yet did she offer to do anything to make it right?... what do you think?

My W.Lim Wave pump flooded during a 6" rain downpour one night. My fault—bad pump vault design. It got noisy, but ran ok.
The sales rep said send it back to William. I eventually did send it back to W.Lim, who not only replaced the bearings, but changed the impeller which increased flow at higher head at no charge and shipped it back free.

I just wrote to a potato chip company (Kettle brand) today about two bags of chips that were really bad. In less than two hours they had written to tell me they were sending coupons to replace said product.

Those are an example of very good customer relations—Microbelift has none, zilch, nadda... I'm not afraid to say so.

Johns · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2007, 08:31:11 AM »

I am perfectly willing to debate. Here is my proposition: All Pond bacteria additives are worthless wastes of $$$. None do anything worthwhile. Remember, "ALL PONDS ARE DIFFERENT", and the parameters are beyond description for home ponders. As I have stated in years past, I have had "identical" ponds next to each other (Within 3 feet and comparable volumes) with the same livestock and plant material when one was perfectly "gin clear" and the other "pea soup". The point being, scientific method requires many repetitions of an experiment in order to form a coherent hypothesis.

My proposition: fish guts contain all the bacteria needed to generate active biofilter operation. Differences of opinion are welcome; however, testimonials are worthless since you really have no idea whether your additives had anything at all to do with your results regardless of what they are.

An actually worthwhile axiom of life: "ALL testimonials are worthless, regardless of subject matter". Think about this long and hard before disputing.

Bottom line: as noted above, "all ponds are different". What works for you is not necessarily applicable to other's pond. More specifically, you may have no idea what really works for you, since what seems to work for several years may miserably fail the very next year.

Another maxim: "vacuums are quickly filled by entrepreneurs". Products are "invented" to fix any problem that has the capacity to remove money from your wallet. Don't believe me? Google "male enhancement cream" and you just might get a clue.

Not that it matters in the least, but I have had outdoor water gardens for almost 40 years. I do not claim to be an expert, but I do claim to be a skeptic of unproven products wanting my $$$.

Short version: save your money to buy a pretty fish.

Rocmon · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2007, 10:01:09 AM »

Johns that was good.

I also believe there are to many variables to make any kind of scientific conclusions for ponds in general. To have a valid scientific experiment you need to reduce the variables down to one—the one your changing. I don't think that's possible in ponds. Even if you could, the ponder next door has a whole different situation. Temperature and light exposure to name only two. Duplicating the results in another pond, not likely, unless your adding a large volume of bleach.

So we try things and make conclusions but there's nothing to say the results are from what we did.

The real test of any manufacturer is how they take care of a customer after the sale—even if they are selling snake oil. If they claim their product produces a given result they should try to make those results happen for their customers.

Esther · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2007, 10:57:19 AM »

UM, does that sound familiar Cindi. I told her that if she asked 10 people she'd get 10 different answers. LOL

Cindi · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2007, 11:21:55 AM »

Quote from: Esther on March 21, 2007, 10:57:19 AM

UM, does that sound familiar Cindi. I told her that if she asked 10 people she'd get 10 different answers. LOL

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