A Travesty on selling Pond Equipment. Warning: A Rant!

[Jerry]

Our advertisers are tops.  That is what they do, and do very well.
We would end a relationship with an advertiser who does what the folks below do!
I went to a pond symposium today at my favorite nursery.  It was run by a very nice young man.
Here is the "BUT!"
They only carry Laguna products!
Mesh baskets and stuff in bottles too.  Both a waste 99% of the time! never was depth mentioned., or any discussion of fish.  he even said you had to add chemicals every time you added water!
Filters? HA, you bet with one filter pad inside! 

A Laguna plant feeding spike too. No mention of alternate ways to feed plants!
 I can go on and on, but may blow a blood vessel ranting!
here is my point.
Pond stores on line, or brick & mortar have selections and expertise.  Sure this is not a knock at Laguna.  I am sure they have some good stuff.

I may not be welcome at my favorite nursery after this, but hell!  They need to wake up! If they want to sell pond stuff they cant be a pimp for Laguna!
I was a Tackle dealer.  We had a big selection and always found out the customers needs.  We never sold them anything they didn't need.
All good retailers meet the customers needs! These guys just wanted to sell stuff!  Most of it junk!

Very dissapointed!

[Charla]

Go get em Jerry!    Unfortunatly that's all some people know about ponds ... add chemicals.  That's why this forum exits, to help others learn a better way.

[Jerry]

many of those in attendence will spend $600.00 easy, just to learn its mostly nonsense.
I sure bought a lot of junk too.  I gave 15 mesh baskets away!  Why do the think one needs mesh to get a plant wet, holy moly, it's submerged!

Thanks Charla.  Many will feel i shot off my mouth.. sorry if you do, but it had to be said.

My wife said "I hope you didn't name them!"  True I was somewhat discreet.

[Kat]

Those mesh baskets actually come in handy for OTHER purposes besides what they are intented for.  I use them to hold smaller potted lilies upright & together in the pond.  They make great baskets to drain excess water from the muck when I scoop the muck out of the bottom on the lily ponds  (the "soil" will then be mulched into my flower beds).  I have attached corks to the rim of one & will float it in my pond to hold unsprouted tropical tubers closer to the surface.  I found some for 25 cents each at Goodwill a few years back.  Wish I had bought more as I'm always needing them to hold my extra lilies that are in small pots.  Put some lava rock & bog filtering plants in them for a Skippy type filter.

As for selling just Laguna products & pushing chemical additives, they are making serious mistakes that way.  Customers like to have choices & should know ways to make the pond system work without having to dump chemicals in all the time.

[Esther]

I use one to cover a pipe that goes into the bottom of my skimmer/filter. I cut a circle out of the bottom of the pot, ziptied a piece of rubber roofing to it and cut an X in the rubber. It stays in place nicely when I push it over the PVC pipe. The top has a plastic paper plate holder ziptied to it. This keeps the fish from getting in the skimmer down there.

[Jerry]

It is funny they are useful for things not intended fo or sold for

[PondmaninAL]

That is the very reason that I decided to do pond consulting, to give people a choice in how to do things without pushing any certain brand and possible keep it green. No, not the water!

[Charla]

Thanks Charla.  Many will feel i shot off my mouth.. sorry if you do, but it had to be said.

  Jerry, I haven't been here much lately, but you've always spoken your mind.  Remember me? I'm a rocks on the bottom ponder and plant most of my stuff right in the rocks!  By the way I just repotted the Aloe you gave me at one of the West Coast gatherings in your back yard ... thought of you and came here to see what was up.  Lot's of new people, lot's of fun and info.   

[Desertponder]

Laguna is about all you will find around here too. There are only 2 nurseries in town that sell ponding items and they also push the chemicals, etc.
We have one small ponding store and I don't remember what brand they mostly push but the guy that owns the store pushes chemicals and expensive crap like crazy.

[Jerry]

Of course I remember you Charla.  We even have a good photo!

[miguynmkoi]

Tsk, tsk, Jerry, you should know better that you can find better info here on AP from reputable Ponders/members who have experienced ponding for a long time.  Those nursery "talks" are all hype on products sold through their shops.

[tranquility]

and what the common water gardener doesn't realize is that magic potions and chemicals can be a vicious cycle....and can be deadly to your plants and fish....

[Jerry]

Annette I didn't go there to learn.  I did get an ok to go as a guest and tout AP.
I never got the chance.  i did give out a few cards.

It is exciting to ad that a beginner here on AP can save a fortune!

[Julles]

Our local pond store is Nelson's Water Gardens.  They have a big "Garden Party" every April, with lots of seminars on various topics.  In the seminar on water clarity and quality, although he did have a spread of chemicals and talked about them a little, his main push to keep your water clear and clean was to use - FILTRATION and PLANTS. 

Now, that's a store that's doing it right!

[Jerry]

Absolutely!  Their reputation is super.  They are a Pond Store.

[Esther]

Back when we first were considering building a pond and knowing we didn't choose to spend much, we went to what is now our favorite pond place. I had been reading a pond forum for about 6 months and knew it was possible to DIY it pretty much all the way but DH hadn't been reading it. So in discussing at the pond store, how to get started, Mr. Pondman was talking about purchasing this and purchasing that because of course he was in business to make money. Finally Pete took a deep breath and said, "Esther has been talking about blah, blah, blah" and proceded to tell him what I had learned on a forum. I was holding my breath because I wasn't sure I understood correctly, let alone explained it to Pete so he could tell the guy. Mr. Pond man immediately shifted gears and began to tell Pete the correct way to DIY and directed us to the stuff we needed to purchase to carry it out. To this day I'm still amazed that he so calmly taught us and didn't take offense that we didn't want to buy all that expensive stuff.

[Jerry]

I wanted to speak up, but id be killing his presentation. Even humiliating the young man.  I do deal with these people regularly and have for many decades.  I did think about talking to the owner and wising him up. but I am sure it would not be appreciated.  I buy plants on line when I can.

[Esther]

Again Jerry it comes down to a matter of opinion as to whether to use chemicals or not. You have a different motivation than a pond store. Why should the store owner have been offended by your preference to try to function without chemicals? He maybe wants to care for his pond in a different way. He could have learned from your opinion and maybe ended up being able to service more people, not just the ones leaning to chemicals. I think if someone were there at the presentation who didn't even have a pond, and they were into the green side of living, they would shy away from that store and even maybe having a pond.

[Jerry]

I was their guest.  I would have impugned their credibility in front of their potential customers. It would make the young man look either dumb, or just a crook.
I have been a customer of theirs for 50 years!  (it is a nursery first and foremost)
I think it would have been very poor taste.
I was there to give out AP business cards.  I did a few.

[Esther]

No , of course you wouldn't harshly interupt their presentation and argue with the young man. Sometimes a simple question will intruduce a different line of thought.  But when/if companies won't accept suggestions, to improve, they might be missing out on potential sales. Now if that presentation was put on by that company's rep and strictly to present their chemicals and equipment alone it's understandable and it sounds like that is what it was. The young man did what he was instructed to do. The store owner would be the guy to sell your ideas to.  Maybe they could present another seminar on DIY ponding or ponding without chemicals, green ponding without green water, whatever. At least if they instructed how to pond without chemicals, they'd sell filters, barley straw products etc. Hey, I wonder if there is a line of "green" products to use in the pond. I would guess that California might have  a high number of "going green" folks and that might be a good group to reach. If they're "going green" they might like the idea of learning to help nature with a pond, plants, fish etc.

[Joyce]

I understand Jerry. Unscrupulous people prey and profit on others ignorance*,  plain and simple.
It's obvious and a no-brainer. Has nothing to do with opinion. Facts are facts.
But hate that you got caught in the middle of such BS. Once again, you were the gentleman about it.  
(*look up the def of ignorance for those who put their hackles up at the word)  
And you are right, it would have been in bad taste, obviously. (no matter how wrong they were)

Some CHOOSE to be ignorant and therefore are fools. They deserve what they get.  
(I employ the ignore button for these types)

Julles, I was at Nelson's last April with Savannah and Roark.  
Had a blast and can't wait to go back! (To Savannah's!)

This is a perfect example of why we have the Truly Named program for Water Lilies.  
For those that prey on other peoples ignorance.
That is why educating oneself keeps one from being a fool and fooled.  

[Esther]

Has anyone seen a line of "green" products that are meant for ponds? I'm seeing them more and more in the way of soaps etc.

[Jerry]

Esther it would not have helped.  The only carry one brand and that's the way they want it.  Shelf space is limited.
I was tempted to stop in and give free advice.  There is no point!  Oh there is one point, it's on the owners head!

Joyce:  Thank you.

[Esther]

LOL @ Jerry. Guess I'm not very experienced at pond stores. Do most of them mostly carry one brand? My Meijer "all purpose" store, and Home Depot carries a little in the way of pond stuff and Koi food so I don't need enough to head to the pond store very often. Mostly I go there like I'd go to a public garden to see the plants and fish and drool. This place has a slew of peacocks and they used to run loose but I suspect people complained. One time I came back to the car and there was a peacock sitting on the hood of my car. Mr. Apol has since built a huge wire enclosure so they can roost in the tree and be safe.

[Jerry]

It IS NOT a pond store. It is a very good nursery.  Pond stores on line as well as store fronts carry a selection and have expertise.

[Joyce]

I wouldn't be surprised if Laguna were paying them a fee/kickback to carry only Laguna. 

[Jerry]

You may be right!  Also Laguna is not made in the USA  With the economy the way it is one might consider American made products,
Now we will probably hear from Laguna asking to advertise!
As I said in the first post, I am sure they make some good stuff.  I would like to see it.

[Joyce]

Me too.