Electrical Questions - Wiring; Rectangular to Round Box

[Julles]

I'm rebuilding my deck over Thanksgiving, and plan to upgrade the outdoor electrical features, as well (better lighting, more outlets - so I can have more POND TOYS!!!)

1.  I already have electrical 12 ga wire - the kind with the black, white, and ground wires enclosed together in a flat white plastic sheath, which I assume is interior grade.

Now I've learned that there is special wire graded for "Outdoors."  Since my wire will be run through metal conduit between junction boxes, will it be OK to use my interior grade wire for my outdoor project, or do I have to use "Outdoor" grade?

2.  I want to install a better light outside my back door.  The existing electrical box is rectangular.  But the new light has a round base and fits a round junction box.  Is there some way I can afix a round box to the existing rectangular box, without removing the whole thing?  I'd like to add an extension of some kind, not rip into the siding of the house and the wall and remove the existing rectangualr box.

Thanks.

I looked on line, but could not find answers to my questions.  I found another guy with the same exact problem as my #2, but the responses didn't seem to understand what he was trying to do, so I don't think he got correct information.

Thanks


 

[mascot]

I think the outdoor wiring is grey, and I was told to definitely use that.  If you run any wiring underground, use the grey PVC and it should be at least 18" down, above ground the galvanized is okay.

Regarding the light... is the box beneath the stucco(?) or on the outside of the wall? 
If on the outside, I would just exchange the box - if you can wire a new light, you can exchange the box.  Once the wiring is disconnected, it should only be a couple screws to remove the square box (should be 4" square) and you can replace with a 4" round box and it should mount with the same screw holes.  Plus, you can get a round box with room for adding outlets.  I went from a crappy light on the outside wall to a round box and ran conduit and installed bigger lights on the underside of my patio cover (see images)

No... if the box is behind the wall, then just mount the round box to it on the outside like I did with mine.  This was my first time doing conduit and outdoor wiring... piece of cake!
First pic a light that I put up before I did the patio cover and had to be removed.  The box under the stucco is square, I sealed the round one with gray silicone to keep water out.
The other pics show how I ran the conduit and mounted the lamp.  Turned out pretty okay.

[Julles]

Thanks, Mascot. 

That sure is a pretty job you did. The bend in the conduit is perfect, too.  I am using flex conduit; not as attractive but easier to bend.

The bad news is that the box is inside the siding of the house - not easy to change out at all.  The good news is that I looked at it again and realized that the box IS already the right size ... not sure if it's square or round, but at least the hole is the right size, so it should be easy to affix the new light fixture, or switch out the box if needed, without having to cut holes in the siding.

[mascot]

Thanks... for the bends I bought a tube bender at Lowes (about 30 bucks) and since the conduit is so cheap I bought an extra length of it to practice, it didn't take long to get the hang of it.  Most lights that I see these days will cover an opening on the side of a house. The cheap ones that they installed were about $2.47 at Lowes. Yeah, not even three bucks!!  haha  I put a nicer lamp up with a sensor, but the calif sun was too much on the sensors and they failed and the plastic lens protecting it broke on one of them.  Those lights had a huge base that covered more than enough, and they weren't too expensive.

I'm sure you'll do fine...

[Waterbug]

I am using flex conduit

Earlier you also said you were using metal conduit...You might want to double check the stuff you're using can be used outside. What I would call flexible metal conduit isn't suppose to be used outside. It isn't water tight. Rigid metal conduit or PVC can be used outdoors as long as water tight fittings are used and the conduit is sloped correctly. But there are a couple of thickness, the thin stuff can't be used outdoors. That NEC anyways, I don't know about Texas or your city.

They make a flexible non-metallic conduit, like Liquid-Tight which is meant to be used outdoors.

[Julles]

OMG, Waterbug, thanks for pointing this out.  I had focused on one metal conduit because it's so much cheaper than the plastic type.  Maybe I have to readjust my budget, if I need to use the other type.  I need to do my research, as I'm supposed to do all my shopping this Saturday.  Thanks for the info!

(PS:  The first time I built my deck, 20 years ago, I simply laid the 3-strand wire along the ground, under the deck.  No problems in all these years, but this time around, I want to do it correctly, and more safely.)

[Waterbug]

Good you haven't bought it yet. If you wanted to go with PVC I can point to a fun and easy way to bend PVC just like the metal conduit, form your own bell ends, sweeps, etc. Great fun.

I hear you about the unprotected wire, can be perfectly fine forever. You only need conduit protection when it's needed. Trick is knowing ahead of time when and where you're going to need it. If could do that I'd play lottery instead.

[Julles]

Wouldn't you know it's RAINING this week!!    A whole year of drought, and it picks THIS WEEK to rain.  Can't do electrical, can't saw boards nor use the drill to screw them in. 

I'm 1 1/2 days behind, partly because of spending FIVE hours yesterday between Home Depot, Lowe's, back to another Home Depot, and the neighborhood hardware store.  Spent a TON (good coupla hundred dollars) on electrical parts... Did you know that one outdoor box, weather proof cover, and fittings costs nearly $30!  And I need 6, plus 6 light fixtures, wire, conduit, on and on.  And that's not including the lumber for the deck!!

Think I'll spend this rainy day buying my lumber.  At least I can get a head start cutting, if I stay under the garage overhang out of the rain.

[Waterbug]

Adds up fast.

But what I hate most is the hours spent in the big box stores. I now try to buy supplies online or off Craig's List. Takes some planning but way less frustrating.

[Julles]

I worked until dark last evening, then made two trips to Home Depot hauling lumber for the deck, and am prepared to spend all daylight hours today at home working!  The decking, BTW, came in exactly on budget.  I can build the deck for $300 (it's very small).  It's all the electrical that jacked up the price.  Will be very nice, though, once it's done. 

I also spent an additional $350 a month ago having two hose bibs (water faucets) pulled through wall of the house so I can have water in the yard.  With that, the whole project will total over $1000, but it sure will make the yard nicer and more useful.  And fun doing most of it myself.

OK, so yesterday I finally got some work done.  Got one light installed, the double gang outlet beneath it, and ran the wire to, but not connected to, the box it will be hooked into.  Also got another light partially up, and... well, that's about it.

But now that one is wired, I know the process, so the next two will go faster.  Two more lights, four more double gang outlets, some conduit, and then tapping into two existing boxes (using extensions so I can fit conduit onto them) and turning on the power.  I have from 7:00 - noon to do this, then hope to start sawing boards to work on the deck.

Oh, yeah, the deck that was supposed to have been finished yesterday.   

[Mikey]

Sounds like someone is going to be finished with their new deck in time to christen it in with some spilled turkey gravy....   

[mascot]

And fun doing most of it myself.

That's part of the reason I do all of my own work (when I can)  - the sheer enjoyment of doing it my way, and (hopefully) doing it right, and the pride of a job well done.  I think it's awesome that you're doing it all yourself.

I hired a contractor to build a wall a few years back because I don't do concrete.  After what happened, I think I'll learn to the next time.  It was supposed to be a 3 day job, but for 8 weeks my back yard was a mess (see pic).  Long story short: he sub-contracted twice when he had told me he was going to do the work himself and finally I was fed up and told him to remove his equipment from my yard or I was going to sell it.  He had said he had 27 years experience with concrete, I didn't know he meant in dog years!

My lesson learned: if you can do it yourself, then do it yourself.  I am very fortunate that I found a very good concrete guy to do my sidewalk out front... but I spoke to about 6 contractors before hiring him.

[Waterbug]

Contractors are why I'm DIY. I think it's faster and, with a little research, often better. Plus you get to learn something which I find priceless.