rules & etiquette of trading?

[thedahlialama]

are there any? 

LeeAnne's thread about feeling bad made me think about this. we all have some sort of unwritten expectations or even codes that we put into play whenever we trade, or buy/sell for that matter. it's a different kind of thing than going down to the nursery and picking up your choice of what's in front of you and making the decision of worth. i've bought some things on the internet that really made me scream  when i got them and discovered how small and unestablished they were.  but i've never been unhappy with a trade here. 

when trading, 2 people try their best to come up with something they both think is equitable. but how is that worth determined. do you say to yourself - " this would cost $$$ at suchandsuch" or do you measure how plentiful it is for you? i suspect these are 2 very different values at times? i try to do a little of both when i trade. i try to make sure i'm sending at least something close to the size of the plant i first got before i split it up. in general i know how much i paid for that and try to estimate how much the other person's item would be worth. that's my initial step in trying to be fair.

and then after that things often just seem to take on a life of their own. "would you like some of ....", "do you have....", "i've also got....", "could you throw in....", etc. sometimes it gets a bit confusing there. and i then go to my next value judgement - how much of it do i have? what's it worth to me? there are plenty of plants i offer for trade that have no monetary value to me whatsoever. i either got them as gifts, or they grow so easily and rampantly that i would compost a lot if i didn't give some away either in trade or as gifts for local friends and neighbors. what i don't have a real grasp on is how the other person has valued their trade items from that standpoint. or how they are judging the value of mine. i always assume no one would offer something they would miss if they gave it away.

at that point the whole concept of monetary value starts to fly out the door. what has a certain 'market value' to me might have an entirely different value to someone else. those of us who have lots of certain plants tend to devalue them i think. while someone who doesn't have them, may overvalue them - certainly in comparison to our estimation. because for them to go run down to the nursery and get those plants would cost them a lot more.

so i'm asking all the traders here to join in discussion about what criteria they use to trade, to judge a trade after it's done and to feel happy about the whole thing. i think from looking at the feedback everyone gets that we must be doing a pretty darn good job in general. i think we all tend to treat each other more like neighbors than as customers. even many of the 'pros' here seem to have a whole different concept of the value of their plants if they're going to a fellow forum member. why? and sometimes there seems to be more satisfaction in being the one to give a bit more than expected, than in getting more than you gave. kind of weird considering that trading as a historical event has normally been about getting the better end of the deal. 

and how does the cost of shipping play in? some people know the shipping rates better than others and can send alot of plant for very little by packaging it correctly. is the trade unbalanced because one person spent $10 on shipping and the other $4.95? what about the limitations of shipping? sure, i've got huge plants i could send out, but it would cost more for me to ship than than it would to order a smaller start and grow it yourself.

it also might be nice to hear from a few folks who haven't traded much or have been afraid to trade because they feel like they don't have much to offer. we were all there at some point. i think you'd be surprised how open many people are to less exotic, but still attractive plants. and you might be surprised by what is common in your area is hard to find on the other side of the country.


probably best we don't mention any names if discussing any trades that weren't all together up to expectations, but why not if we're saying how great they were!!

at any rate, i'm just raising the questions here. i hope we can have a good and educational discussion about this that will help all of us learn to make trading more fun - which is really what it's all about for me i guess. 

[tinkster]

hmmm .... lots of things come to mind that I worry about when I have traded with someone or offered to share and they have paid money for shipping.  I worry if the plants have survived and were packed good enuff and then I worry if they make it down the line.  I think being honest in that area helps people like me that dont have any shipping experience know what we need to do.   I always enjoying reading a post and see someone mention that something I had sent earlier is doing well.  I usually try to take pictures and things people have sent me when they are doing really good.  I think that is a issue with all of us is the fear that what we send will not make it.

I also learned a very good lesson on here from LeeAnne on shipping bareroot that was very very effective and much more cost effective than I had been doing.  I havent offered  things I have cause they are so small and I knew the shipping would be to much for most for that small of a plant.
tinkster

[tranquility]

I have done soo many trades through out the years....My poor hubby has to ground me periodically from trades...simply because I could trade all day long and not blink an eye...just last week I sent out 10 boxes and only one of those were a money transaction-the others were either postage or trades....and I have only been disappointed once-and that was simply because the guy never sent me my part  .....It only took me once or twice to order from catalogs to learn to never do that again....even if I trade with a member and I get a smaller portion-it is usually always bigger and healthier than anything you can buy from most catalogs....the etiquette IMO is that as long as both parties are happy then that trade was a good experience for both....This group of folks are the greatest I think....Just last year I lost every one of my hostas-I posted that I was in need of some hostas on both this board and on Koishack-the next week I started recieveing these huge boxes filled with hosta's, other shade loving plants and even yard ortaments....I was never expecting everyone to be sooo generous......Some sent huge plants-some sent smaller ones..But it was an instant garden-I bet I unpacked and planted about 100 plants that week......Its been a year now and I haven't lost a single plant.....and I am sooo proud of my plants I tell everyone how I came about having them all.....if it weren't for all of my board friends...then my shade garden would still be bare this year....
Lawanna

[thepitclub]

I've only purchased (no trades) from two members of the group so far, but I have been MORE than happy with what I received. The folks around here seem to go above and beyond the call of duty to please others. If all trades/purchases go even half as well as my first two purchases did, I wouldn't think anyone had anything to worry about around here.

Slightly off topic..... I was so smitten by the idea of trading (learned here) that I called a few local friends and suggested it. I spent yesterday happily planting a bunch of hostas and iris that I received as trade for lily of the vally and purple lilac trees.   

[SheilaJ]

I've NEVER been unhappy with a trade, and I've been pleasantly surprised by people who have offered me free plants for postage, or even unsolicited rare plants just "because". I've tried to do the same. I hope no one has ever been disappointed in a trade from me.

The only stuff I offer up for trade is stuff that I no longer want because I'm out of room and want to try something else, or because I just divided it and have a bunch of extras.

Trading here has been so much fun that I drove about an hour to attend a "land plant" swap hosted by another gardening board. Got great stuff there too. I've probably gotten $100 to $200 in free or almost free plants just this year that way, and some of them were really unusual things the nurseries don't carry.

It's a nice warm and fuzzy sharing kind of feeling. Much more fun than driving to the nursery and plunking down a pile of money, not that I'm knocking nurseries - I used to work for one!

[PondmaninAL]

I've either purchased or paid postage for plants. I've never done a trade. I have sent seeds before to people for free. One thing that holds me back is all the reading that I did on state regulations for shipping plants. That was when I had decided that I wanted to open a nursery and not become a pond installer. If I do do a trade, please don't ask for a plant that has regulations against it in your state. I have water hyacinths but I won't send them out of the state and I won't give to anybody without them promising to dispose of them properly when they get tired of them.

Happy ponding,
Scott

[bunny56lbc]

I alway's try to send an extra plant . I've have a few bad trades & a few I bought was smaller that I was lead to beleive. I just don't buy/trade with those people anymore. I put them on a naughty list.... .
bonnie

[tammie]

I've done alot of trades, and alot of sales, of plants.  For trades, or just postage I make it a point to not keep track of wheither or not somebody re-emburse me for postage, or if I thought the trade was a little lopsided.  Cuz I get my feelings hurt...  The first year I started trading I sent out close to 30 boxes with mostly Black Taros.  I was more then happy to send them to people who would appreciate them!  I kept track of who re-embursed my postage cost.  8 out of the group didn't send me the costs back.  Really hurt my feelings... So now I don't keep track.  I do record mailing addresses, and what I sent, but that's it.  Most of the time it's me who asks if someone would like to trade!   As for trading I've only had one person who just flat out didn't send anything.  And yep, I remember that!  He's the only person who's dissapointed me as far as trades go.  I let the person I'm trading with know if I'm sending a small lily, or whatever, and they've all done the same. 
Am I making any sence?  Nope.  Okay I'll wait for the pain pills to wear off.  Bye!
Tammie

[LeeAnne151]

Packing and mailing takes a lot of time. I quit selling on eBay because of time constraints.

I tried to give extras away locally but just can't get rid of it all.  I HATE composting perfectly good plants that someone may really want. So, I started trading. I just felt bad because some people sent gifts and some sent more starts than I sent them. Which prompted the other thread about feeling bad. I sent one person some lily of the valley without prompting but then felt bad because it is so invasive in my garden. 

Many of the plants that I've traded for are not available locally and I've had some crappy experiences buying online.

Bob saw equisetum at a local nursery and asked why we didn't have any. He thought it was cool. I knew Jerry was ripping it out. I emailed Jerry and asked if he would send some and it came in a few days. I was happy to reimburse postage and a little extra for his trouble. Paid more than what the plant cost at the nursery but hearing Bob tell people that our "Internet pond friend Jerry" sent it and some great lemons too is priceless. 

I think the biggest trading advice I could give is to discuss it with your trading partner if you are unhappy and give them a chance to fix it before leaving negative or neutral feedback or telling others.

[Kat]

I've traded a few times & most of the time things went fine.  Sometimes I'll throw in extras & sometimes traders will add extras.  I try to let folks know what size the plants be, but it is hard to determine what size can be.  Small to someone else can be large or vice versa.  I find it easier sometimes just to buy & there are plenty of folks out there also willing to buy.  Feedback is also a very nice thing to have on this forum, but contacting the seller/trader with concerns first should be done, although that can backfire, too.  People can do things 100% to their best ability, but unfortunately there will always be someone that will feel they didn't get what they thought they should have.  On the other hand there are plenty of folks that are just happy to get plants.  I've run into my share of complainers & liars, but for the MAJORITY of the time the transactions went fine.   

Another thing that might be posted (if it already hasn't been done), is how you pack your plants & any tips/advice you can give.  I've gotten anywhere from plants just stuffed in a bag that leaked & box with no cushioning to very well packed plants. 

To those of you that have bought/traded/sold with me successfully, thank you again. 

[LeeAnne151]

If you receive plants, please let the sender know they arrived safely either by emailing, PMing or leaving feedback. If they didn't arrive safely, please let the sender know so they can rectify the situation. The USPS does make mistakes and leave plant boxes in the sun etc. Not the senders fault but most would send another box.

If you have a problem and cannot work it out, please do leave calm factual feedback letting others know what happened.
Saying to avoid so and so or that so and so ripped you off doesn't let anyone know what happened.

[miguynmkoi]

I've heard horror stories about purchase online, delivery, ugly surprises, etc. which turn me away from that avenue.  Since I joined AP and practically met everyone online I feel more comfortable about purchasing with members here.  I started as a behind the scene lurker to an all out poster.  I've learned alot and I see how caring most people here are about sending sales or for postage only.  Generosity is a big factor I've learn about people here.  I've long ago lost that skill (we live in a scary world now) and now I'm re-learning how to be more generous to others and I hope soon, especially to those who taught me.

Do unto others as you would want them to do onto you...something like that 

[matherfish]

I have done a lot of selling, buying and trading on the web, including Ebay. I try to define my plants in any trade, but has been pointed out, people percieve things differently. I go out of my way to make people happy, but sometimes you wonder about people. Example-a few years ago  I had advertised on Ebay some water hyacinth for sale (in states where legal), hyacinths of different sizes. I had some that I advertized as small starter plants, and were only 2" - 3" in diameter. I had a man contact me saying that his daughter bought some and he was dissappointed in his plants because he thought they would be bigger, but that they were exactly as described in the ad.  I had plants for sale on Ebay that were advertized as being 4 to 6 inches also. She had bought the small ones because they were cheapper, and the postage was less, but then unhappy with me because I didn't send them bigger plants.  Sometimes people expect things that aren't promised.

In trades, I try to send comparable values, but that isn't always possible. I have not been disappointed in trades because I have felt that people have sent me the best they had to send. I try to do the same. In trades you can worry about equal numbers of plants, or equal values or equal sizes. If the plants are as described, and the two parties agreed on what was to be sent, hopefully they will both be happy. I agree with the others, if unhappy, try to work it out rivately with the other party privately. Even with feedback you can get mis-represented.  Example-I had a person leave neutral feedack on Ebay because there wasn't any soil with the plant when it arrived. Of course, the plant was advertized as being shipped bare root, but instead of contacting me, and finding ut that bare root meant no soil, the person showed their ignorance by posting it on feedback.  Still, with a 99.8% rating it didn't hurt me, but it was bothersome.
Trading and buying can be fun, but so can selling. Just remember that the majority of people are going to be honest and fair. Give them the chance. You can share in their delight to get a new plant for their pond!