Author Topic: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?  (Read 2426 times)

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Offline perplexed ponder

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Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« on: October 17, 2007, 03:27:26 AM »
I keep thinking I should be smart this year and do it before the water is so darned cold that my husband gets frostbite!
It still looks so good though and I'm even getting a lily here and there. Since the leaves are coming down now, I'll probably have to
do it this week. sigh.....another long winter awaits.

Also, anyone keep thier filter/falls running all winter? I usually shut mine down around november.
Kathy

Offline mcp

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 06:04:21 AM »
Kathy, I know the your feelings about winter coming on being in zone 5 in Pa. The leaves are starting to get pretty but falling. My pond still looks pretty good for this time of year. Unusually warm and dry as have not had a frost yet. :) I think as soon as we have a frost will start cutting plants off and sinking to bottom of pond. I don't turn my water falls off until first snow. Ten it is a very long wait until spring. {:-P;;
McKean County Pa. zone 5

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 05:11:07 PM »
Hi Kathy, I'm borderline 5-6 and I leave mine going. I have a big 5000gph pump and I direct the water off the last lip so the water is running along the edge of the pond to the skimmer. I keep a stock tank heater infrount of the skimmer to keep it open. the rest of the pond usually gets 2 to 6" of ice and I have a wonderfull ice follies to watch each year. I made my splash guards very high on the banks and so far have not had a problem with run off. I just barrowed a wet suit to go out hopefully this week end and cut back all my plants and move a few to the deeper water. My Koi seem to do just fine all winter under the ice. It may thaw out from time to time it depends on our winter tho and I get all excitted cuz I can see my fish huddled down there in the deep.
I'm just happier outside!
 Debbie
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Offline CoolShades

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2007, 05:12:52 PM »
You mean we are suppose to shut down our ponds?

I usually wait until all the leaves are down before i put on the waders and pick all the leaves and debris out of the pond, but I turn off my waterfall when pond temperature hits ~ 60F, because you will start to get temperature inversion, which is not a good thing, i.e. keep that heat in!  O0

Offline miguynmkoi

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2007, 06:03:40 PM »
Nice Winter shots Debbie!  Get the shivers just looking at them!  :D

Offline Esther

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2007, 08:35:46 PM »
I do the plants now while I can still stand the water temps. But leave the waterfall pump going until the ice begins to form in the falls. I don't want to take a chance of the water being diverted from the stream.  I put in the deicer before the surface ice forms.

Offline Esther

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2007, 08:37:08 PM »
I'm wondering if temperature inversion happens with our little ponds.

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2007, 04:23:23 AM »
 :redface: Could one of you please explain this temperature inversion to me? This is my 9th year with a pond and I don't know what ya mean :o Karp in the wild around here do just great in the rivers and lakes that freeze over year after year? And this is the4th winter with my big pond and Koi and so far there doing great with leaving the falls on.  :-\ o(
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 Debbie
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Offline Ky Kim

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2007, 04:32:45 AM »
Same as Esther, we leave our falls on as long as we can.  I think mine were only off about a month last winter.  But we had a mild winter, except for that month.

We finally trimmed back the lilies, and sank the rest yesterday.  Went ahead and put the nets on too.  It finally rained Tuesday, and they are calling for it today with high winds.  Guess what, we're getting it.  Its raining hard now.  We figured with it being so hot and dry, that the winds and rain would knock alot of leaves down.  Hated to trim back the lilies, there were still blooms.  :'(, but the good side is, the water temp was tollarable.  Only think left is to dig up my Banana's, Canana's, and Daliahs.  Fun, fun....I never look forward to digging up the Banana's.

Kim

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Offline Desertponder

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2007, 08:27:39 AM »
I usually have my plants done by now but I've been too busy and when I've had the time its been raining.
Its supposed to be nice this weekend so I'm going to get it done. Plants all trimmed off and repotted as needed. Most everything is going dormant and turning yellow so it needs to get done. We had our first hard frost last night. It's only 30 degrees right now.
Shanna
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Offline perplexed ponder

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2007, 12:25:17 PM »
oooooo, nice winter falls! I'd love to try that. I'm always afraid my pump will freeze up.
Took all the plants out and cut them back yesterday. Drained ENTIRE pond and moved fish to upper pond for a couple of days. We're supposed to get huge storms and winds tonight, figured all the leaves wille nd up in there and it will be easier to clean if we just leave it a couple days.
All my lillies need to be repotted already! They must have loved the osmocote this year. Don't know if I'm going to have time for that, and you can't find composted cow manure around here this time of year.

DH got clear plastic and plastic conduit to make arcs over the pond. We'll see how that works this year. Only thing is, it won't be very pretty to look at all winter.
Kathy

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2007, 04:09:47 PM »
Hi Kathy, don't recall ever seeing your pond and falls but good moving water wont freeze, and if the stock tank heater is in frount of the skimmer to keep the intake good it should be ok? My falls moves quite hard so only the splash freezes, that's how I get such cool follies every year. And thank you for the compament.  :)
I'm just happier outside!
 Debbie
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Offline CoolShades

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2007, 05:42:18 PM »
Temperature inversion is exactly what it implies.  During the summer the Sun's rays heat up the surface resulting in higher temperatures.  In the winter the warmer water is at the bottom of the pond making the fish and plants quite happy.  Typically most people suck water from the bottom where this will bring the warmer water to the falls resulting in cooling the sub surface...fish don't like that!  If you are going to run your falls during the winter, then use the surface water to keep the warmer waters below.  The advantage is you get more gas exchange with the waterfall on, which is good, but you already have a lot more O2 in the water due to the cooler water.

Gary

Offline Esther

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2007, 05:02:03 AM »
But ice can form that can divert the water flow from your stream or waterfall.

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2007, 08:53:23 AM »
Temperature inversion is exactly what it implies.  During the summer the Sun's rays heat up the surface resulting in higher temperatures.  In the winter the warmer water is at the bottom of the pond making the fish and plants quite happy.  Typically most people suck water from the bottom where this will bring the warmer water to the falls resulting in cooling the sub surface...fish don't like that!  If you are going to run your falls during the winter, then use the surface water to keep the warmer waters below.  The advantage is you get more gas exchange with the waterfall on, which is good, but you already have a lot more O2 in the water due to the cooler water.

Gary

So then I'm ok. My skimmer is at the shallow end of the pond and only skims what the top 8" or so. And since I have the water diverted to runn just along the one bank and the fish gather in the far middle should be no problum. Well it hasent yet anyway.
But ice can form that can divert the water flow from your stream or waterfall.
Yes it can, but like I said I have huge splash guards and the falls is enough slope down hill. I don't have a streem like anywhere where the water isn't going down hill steeply quite a bit. I guess that helps a lot also?
I'm just happier outside!
 Debbie
SunnyEastern Wa.
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Offline perplexed ponder

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2007, 03:59:08 PM »
Chances are we'll take out the pump. Save on the little bit of electricity. I'm always afraid the pump will have a problem on the coldest day of the year. I just hate staring at the "dead" pond all winter. It's right out the sliding glass door of the family room. I've tried to add some winter interest plantings, like grasses and evergreens, but it's still quite bare all winter.
Kathy

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2007, 04:46:27 AM »
 lol Kathy, last year I got tired of looking at brown or white so one trip to wall mart I picked up some wonderful fake tulips daffodills and crocus or something and plugged them in around the edges so when I looked out there was color. In fact they are still there lol
I'm just happier outside!
 Debbie
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Offline Esther

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2007, 08:04:53 AM »
Monday darling DH worked with me for about 4 hours to take out the pots and trim back everything that would freeze and rot in the pond. We put away all the lawn ornaments, patio furniture and solar lights etc.

Yesterday we received a Laguna net to keep out the leaves. Do not like it one bit. For one thing, it is green and black would have been better. For another, it was very hard to maneuver and stretch into position. GRRR. Poor DH was about to pull out his hair. Or was it my hair he was about to pull out? Anyway, it is in position and will stop the leaves so I guess that is the main objective. When we take it off after most of the leaves are done blowing around, I will drop the pots to the bottom. Right now I have them sitting on one of the plant ledges because I wanted to vac the bottom a bit.

Offline Mucky_Waters

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2007, 08:37:17 AM »
No offence, and I hate to sound like a know it all, but I believe Coolshades first post where he says "because you will start to get temperature inversion, which is not a good thing" is the most accurate.
Temperature inversions mean still, stagnant, and often, low oxygen, water on the bottom of the pond.
Fish are cold blooded, and winter tolerant fish like koi and goldfish can easily take very cold water as long as certain other needs are met, and high on that list of needs is adequate oxygen levels. Of course if they are going to survive cold winter waters they also need to be free of dangerous build ups of ammonia, carbon dioxide and other harmful dissolved gases as well, and the best way to do that is provide a way for those gasses to get in and out (or prevent them from occurring in the first place), that's why ponders provide holes in the ice allow for gas exchange. A common misnomer is that these holes are simply there to allow toxic gases (like hydrogen sulfide, H2S ) out, in reality it is a gas exchange that is necessary, this means oxygen in, as well as well as those other gases out.  But a hole by itself will not be nearly as effective unless the water  moves past it in some way, and that means it is better to circulate the water somehow, either by a aerator or a pump.
I also believe, and this is where my view differ from many other ponders, that you should circulate the water at the bottom of the pond as well.
Unless you circulate the water at the bottom of the pond it is difficult for the oxygen to reach those lower levels adequately. High oxygen levels at the bottom pond are important, not only for the fish to breath, but high oxygen levels help prevent the build up of H2S in the first place, because the microorganisms that produce H2S can only survive and do their dirty work in organic mater rich, and relatively oxygen free environments.
Here is some info taken right off wikipedia about H2S, "Sulfate-reducing bacteria obtain energy by oxidizing organic matter or hydrogen with sulfates, producing H2S. These microorganisms are prevalent in low-oxygen environments, such as in swamps and standing waters. Sulfur-reducing bacteria (such as Salmonella) and some archaea obtain their energy by oxidizing organic matter or hydrogen with elemental sulfur, also producing H2S. Other anaerobic bacteria liberate hydrogen sulfide when they digest sulfur-containing amino acids, for instance during the decay of organic matter. H2S-producing bacteria also operate in the human colon, and the odor of flatulence is largely due to trace amounts of the gas. Such bacterial action in the mouth may contribute to bad breath."

In all but the smallest ponds it is rare for fish to get so cold in the winter that they can't survive. Only ponds where the ice gets so thick they run out of free water underneath the ice layer. It is however, very common for fish to die in the winter, even in large ponds or small lakes, from lack of oxygen.

Read the info on the link below about winter fish kills, to see how it happens and how to prevent it.
Winter fish kill explained.

My 2 cents  ;)

Offline Esther

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2007, 05:57:10 PM »
Now I'm all confused. My pond is 4 winters old. I shut off and remove the waterfall pump when the water starts to freeze in the waterfall. I put in a homemade deicer and that is all. I've never lost a fish because of illness or pond conditions. I can't say the same about the heron visits. I have had a couple smallish ones go through the pump. One good sized Koi somehow managed to jump the stone wall that edges the bog and layed in the bog during the night. I euthanized him. But I also keep it pretty clean. I don't know if that is the answer or not.

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2007, 04:35:07 AM »
Well I'm confused cuz Mucky water has Jerrys pix only changed to holding a big Koi and jerry's saying under his name? :o :-\
I'm just happier outside!
 Debbie
SunnyEastern Wa.
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Offline mystic dragonfly

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Re: Northerners....when do you trim back plants and winterize?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2007, 07:38:19 AM »
I have a very small pond, and have managed to keep it from freezing four three years now.I use a stock tank heater that sits on the bottom of my pond. I have very minimal ice forming around the edges in the winter.It's been known to get below zero for several days around here. I have not lost a fish due to cold yet.

 

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