Author Topic: I want shade garden like steve's.. ??'s adding dirt under Old Dogwood..... (Read 1656 times)

tinkster · « **on:** June 23, 2008, 12:34:30 PM »

I would not be able to dig under the tree to plant and make it a shade garden. I love steve's and my tree sits very low to the ground like in his picture. Perfect for ferns hostas etc. but again on a pretty steep bank, very dry sand and the dogwood roots appear to be very shallow when I try to dig right there they are... so I would like to build it up about 10" or so with some very good dirt.. does it hurt to add dirt on top of the roots under a old tree?? I know your not suppose to add it up around and cover the trunk so I would start the bed out away from the trunk to keep it the original ground level.

thanks in advance for any info.

tinskter

EagleEye · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2008, 02:55:20 PM »

Jeez Tink, that's quite a compliment for a guy who stumbles his way through life doing what looks good and feels right. I got a lot of advice from all of you here, and a lady from town who raises and sells perenials.
I actually dug up the sod, tilled the soil, (mostly sandy) and had my buddies from the village haul in a dump truck of compost from the village pile. I probably added a good 6" and a year later added 20 or so bags of composed cow manure.
I think you are thinking correctly. Try to stay away from the trunk and GO FOR IT!

I've moved quite a bunch of ferns this spring and will probably do the same next spring.
BTW, if you want ferns, just ask.

Steve

Sunbeam56 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2008, 05:02:10 AM »

I dunno about dogwoods. I do know about oak. The problem with oak is you smother the roots.
Don't add more than a couple of inches at a time, to give the oak tree time to send out new roots.

I would hope that even if the dogwood is sensitive to being buried, doing the addition like we do oaks would be okay.

JoshS · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2008, 07:52:21 AM »

10" is a lot to add at one time. I wouldn't add more than a couple inches. The tree roots will grow into the new soil, so it really isn't a long term solution.

tinkster · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2008, 09:05:13 AM »

darn.. well if I cant add dirt then I cant plant under the tree.. the roots are just to shallow on the tree and the soil is to dry and sandy... hmm maybe have to move around and dig other spots to see .

thanks for the info!

tinkster

LeeAnne151 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 24, 2008, 09:21:13 AM »

What about using big pots? Low wooden tubs? Something you can put more than one plant in. Combine hostas and ferns in them.

EagleEye · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2008, 09:46:47 AM »

Tink,
Add the dirt in spots. The roots aren't everywhere. Then plant the spots. Eventually it'll fill in, just like the rest of your garden.
You know, we all live in different areas, so what I would do is contact you local county horticulturist for a better answer for your area. (but what I would actually do is what I said above, but that's just me)
Steve

Joyce · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2008, 01:07:10 PM »

Do what Steve said, and then add a 3-4" layer of mulch. (which within a month or so will compact down to about 2")
Keep all added soil and mulch away from the trunk, although you can top dress with mulch about 1-2" deep up to the trunk.
Remember, mulch rots down within a year and becomes compost. Compost is THE BEST fertilizer for woodland perennials. (it's their natural food)
Ferns are used to heavy root competition because that is how they grow in their natural habitat, under trees and around shrubs in the woodlands.
Most woodland perennials can take a LOT of root competition because that is what they have to deal with in their natural habitat.

If you added 3-4" of quality topsoil around the whole area, that would be plenty for the ferns and hostas, if you also mulch to keep the weeds out and moisture in.

Johns · « **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2008, 08:49:02 AM »

Tink,

All of the above, but...

Just in case your dogwood expires, don't heap grief upon yourself, dogwoods are short lived trees as trees go (20-30 years).

My assessment: You can add up to 6 inches of any organic rich soil up to within 5 feet of the trunk and up to 2-3 inches all the way to the trunk without due concern over the health of the tree. With the added nutrients you will be adding, the tree will likely flourish rather than decline.

Remember, my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it, no more, no less.....

But here is an experts advice on cornus florida (Dogwood):

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/cumberland/hotline/gardenincumb/gardennote6.html

Pay particular attention to the section regarding mulch...

tinkster · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2008, 02:29:04 PM »

hehehehe.. the beauty of the forum.. free advice

Thanks johns.. very intersting.. now I know why my roots are so shallow.. I figured the person who planted it just didnt water it good. Sad to know they only live 20 to 30 years.. I have been here 21 years and they were full grown when I got here so they have to be close to the end of life

tinkster

Joyce · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2008, 05:01:07 PM »

Kousa Dogwoods live a lot longer...but even Cornus floridus (Native American Dogwood) will live a LOT longer than 30 years if and only if you give it the best care.
I am 46 years old, and the 2 dogwoods planted in front of my old school, each side of the main entrance, since kindergarten (had k-12 in one building) is still alive and HUGE, still in bloom too.
Back when I was in Kindergarten the trees were 10-12 feet tall, so they had been there awhile already.

Johns · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2008, 02:07:01 PM »

Individual dogwood trees have been documented to have lived more than 100 years. BUT, the average is 20-30. A perfect microclimate and good genes and the lack of insect and disease pathogens in the area all affect the outcome. I have several on my property more than 30 years old, but I have also lost a few in the last couple of years through no obvious cause other than old age.