Firecrest vs Improved Firecrest Questions

[Bonnie]

Anyone have information on Firecrest and IMPROVED Firecrest, along with pix ?

When did this become Improved and who improved it because I must be missing something because I have never read anything about the improvement?   make sense??

[tranquility]

Not sure Bonnie.....-Ah-Ha.... remember that book I traded you last year---the Encyclopedia of water plants---I just found the description of both Firecrest and Improved Firecrest in it  ---Here is what it says---I've only seen my Improved and never the Firecrest so I can't personally tell you YES there is a difference....

 Firecrest-Hot pink with orange stamens.Cactus or cup shaped blooms 3-5". deep green leaves. grows 2-6' wide(boy that is a huge difference in width growth  ) Odorata type rhizome.
 
 Improved Firecrest-Rich Pink with orange stamens. cup shaped bloom of 3-5". green leaves with red edges(which I've never noticed on mine) grows 2-4' wide.
Ah-ha found the reason it is considered Improved...an added note to the description--- This form has more flowers and more compact folaige....

[Timgod]

This is one of the reasons names are supposed to be checked, authenticated and approved by the official registrars. The IWGS for The Univ of Conn per the RHS.
In accepted names, one of the stipulations is that a name cannot have the same portion as another named cultivar or species. As you can see it only causes confusion.
Even if a seedling of say Laydekeri Fulgens looks almost just like the parent with some minor differences, it cannot contain the same name if you named it today. It could have been a seedling or even a sport but should not have been accepted as the name it bears.

Tim

[tranquility]

Tim they are both listed in the Water Gardeners International check list...I checked there is a firecrest listed and an Improved....O.K. now I noticed that only the firecrest is in bold print...so does that mean that its the only one that is an accepted variety and the Improved Firecrest is not?
Lawanna

[Bonnie]

 Lawanna, I have read the description before but never knew the story behind it?
You and I believe Cindy Coombs are the only two people that I know that have the Improved one, but I've not really asked or looked around either.

This is just one of those questions that I've always wanted to ask... still curious.

[tranquility]

 I got mine from Cindy years ago....LOL---now you've got me curious...wonder why its listed...but, not an accepted variety  also why its not more available---it really is a pretty lily....
Lawanna

[Craig]

Hate to always come of as a contrarian, but...

The name not being in bold only means there has been no substantiation that the name 'Improved Firecrest' has ever been published with the required description. You won't find 'Lavender Lace' in the registry, but it is commonly available.....Rich Sacher chose not to publish the name.  The registry reflects the status of the name's publication only is now reflection on its availability.

There are indeed a number of shared names...'Midnight' and 'Midnight Serenade' come to mind as well as 'Ruby' and Pink Ruby', 'Sunrise' and Pink Sunrise'.  All accepted names with a shared epithet.

And the RHS is not involved with the registry for naming Nymphaea cultivars....that falls under the auspices of the International Society of Horticulture Science.  The IWGS is the keeper of the registry for now...but how much longer? As far as I know, they have not added a new lily to the registry in this century.  Even FAN gave up and now uses the WGI registry....which trust me, will be accepted as official.  With a couple of exceptions, all the current hybridizers I know register through the WGI, because it gets done and published regularly in an accepted form.

I wrote the iwgs registrar this evening to inquire about the status of their registry and the email came back courtesy of daemon.

[bunny56lbc]

I have an " Improved Firecrest " I got a few year's ago . Should I take the tag out & just call it an un named hardy then ?

Thx,
bonnie

[tranquility]

Hate to always come of as a contrarian, but...

The name not being in bold only means there has been no substantiation that the name 'Improved Firecrest' has ever been published with the required description. You won't find 'Lavender Lace' in the registry, but it is commonly available.....Rich Sacher chose not to publish the name.  The registry reflects the status of the name's publication only is now reflection on its availability.

There are indeed a number of shared names...'Midnight' and 'Midnight Serenade' come to mind as well as 'Ruby' and Pink Ruby', 'Sunrise' and Pink Sunrise'.  All accepted names with a shared epithet.

And the RHS is not involved with the registry for naming Nymphaea cultivars....that falls under the auspices of the International Society of Horticulture Science.  The IWGS is the keeper of the registry for now...but how much longer? As far as I know, they have not added a new lily to the registry in this century.  Even FAN gave up and now uses the WGI registry....which trust me, will be accepted as official.  With a couple of exceptions, all the current hybridizers I know register through the WGI, because it gets done and published regularly in an accepted form.

I wrote the iwgs registrar this evening to inquire about the status of their registry and the email came back courtesy of daemon.

Craig your information is always enjoyed and appreciated by me  .....hope to see you posting more...I've missed it....
 Bonnie-I think what Craig is saying is that just because its not in bold then it just means its not registered with the IWGS with a written description...Is that correct Craig?
Here is the Improved Firecrest I got a few years back--- of course the varigated leaves don't go with it--but, the burgandy ones do(they are new)...and then turn green...

Lawanna

[Craig]

Hey Bonnie,

Despite the title some unknown person added under my name on KP.....I'm not really the lily police.<g>  But I am curious, I don't have the Speichert book, does he offer any information on the hybridizer or the date of origin?

 But to answer your question....if you got the lily labeled as 'Improved Firecrest' from someone you deem trustworthy, there is no reason to now call it an unknown.  If the person you got it from can provide provenance, that would be great.  But there does appear to be a lily by that name, although a quick search turned up no listings of anyway selling it.

More or less that is right Lawanna, not being in bold doesn't mean such a lily doesn't exist, just for one reason or another the name is in question or not yet accepted.  The whole registration/publication thing does nothing but protect the name from being used later on another lily.