Pond is finished! Two months and 4 Chiro visits...Pics

[laguna]

My wife and I started gardening about 3 years ago and after 500 plus perennial plants and do it yourself landscape, we went on a Garden tour of the local area Garden Club...Wow was I hooked on koi ponds after the first garden visit..So the journey began and just about three months later we finished our 3,000g Koi pond.... 18 yards of dirt and who knows how many pounds if not tons of river rock...Thanks to all the local farmers for all the free river rock...

Laguna

[laguna]

First pic is my boy sitting in the dug out hole...about 4ft deep going up to 2ft

[laguna]

Im glad this is finished! I have 11 Koi about 6-7 inches long swimming around...The two big koi are 4 and 7 years old..
thanks to this web-site and the koi pond bible it was hard but not impossible...

 All rocks were lifted or rolled onto a trailer out in the field  by hand and rolled or lifted into place.. I did have use a bobcat to dig the hole..
 Pond about 20' long 10' wide 4' to 18'' deep with a 3'x2' cave at the deep in...the two waterfalls are 3' and 1' wide about 2' drop. The steram is 6' long...

Laguna

[greenthumbnails]

Very Impressive!  I am envious of all your LARGE free rocks
GOOD JOB!   

[kntry]

The pond is gorgeous and you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it for about a year.

I know you're not going to be happy about this but the rocks really need to be removed.  By the end of next summer, there will be a large layer of muck under and between the rocks that will be anaerobic (no oxygen).  Bad bacteria that is harmful to the fish will grow there.  It will also give parasites a place to breed. 

Everything from fish waste and uneaten food to leaves and dirt that blow into the pond will settle in the rocks and rot there.  Once that happens, if you move the rocks with the fish in the pond, the gases that are released will kill them. 

It is possible to keep the rocks but you'll need to remove the fish every year, move the rocks around and clean the muck out of the pond.  You'll be amazed at how thick the layer will be under there in just a year.  It's like having your fish live in an unflushed toilet.

If you want the healthiest environment for your koi, the best thing to do is remove the rocks and use them in the landscape.

[Jonathan]

The pond is gorgeous and you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it for about a year.

I know you're not going to be happy about this but the rocks really need to be removed.  By the end of next summer, there will be a large layer of muck under and between the rocks that will be anaerobic (no oxygen).  Bad bacteria that is harmful to the fish will grow there.  It will also give parasites a place to breed. 

Everything from fish waste and uneaten food to leaves and dirt that blow into the pond will settle in the rocks and rot there.  Once that happens, if you move the rocks with the fish in the pond, the gases that are released will kill them. 

It is possible to keep the rocks but you'll need to remove the fish every year, move the rocks around and clean the muck out of the pond.  You'll be amazed at how thick the layer will be under there in just a year.  It's like having your fish live in an unflushed toilet.

If you want the healthiest environment for your koi, the best thing to do is remove the rocks and use them in the landscape.

DITTO

[reddad35]

That pond is beautiful. I would not worry as much as the 2 above posters seem to be. You actually have 10 to 20 times or more surface area in you pond for beneficial bacteria to grow. I am sure with the proper circulation and aereation. your pond will do better than most. You have also given yourself some nice planting areas to which the roots will love you for it. Your pond will do great. Browse the web and look at ponds with rocks in them. I am sure the photos you see, with huge koi, will reassure you. I bet if you asked the fish in the 100's of photos I saw with rocks, they would tell you it is fine.

Again, sweet pond and enjoy!!

[kntry]

Although the rocks give more surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow, that surface area does not help the anaerobic bacteria growing beneath the rocks.

If you drain the water in a rock lined pond and move the rocks, the smell of decaying organic matter will literally make you gag.

The larger the koi grow, the more waste they put off.  The more waste they put off, the more organic matter beneath the rocks to decay.

The fish will be fine for a year or so but they'll eventually begin to get bacterial infections, ulcers and die.  Unless the muck is removed from under the rocks.

I'm not trying to be negative as the pond truly is gorgeous.  But in 3 months, the rocks will be covered with algae so you really won't be able to see them.  They are a detriment to the fish and I definitely wouldn't let my kids swim in there after they've been in the pond a couple of months.  Anaerobic bacteria is not something you want your fish to be in contact with and especially not your children.

As for browsing the web and looking at rock lined ponds with large koi, ask how old the pond is and/or how much time and effort are spent cleaning under the rocks if the pond is a couple of years old.

Although still not an ideal situation, a rock lined pond is much better suited to goldfish since they don't get large and don't put out as much waste.

[Jonathan]

From another form
I really wouldent want a pond with rock !

[lorraine1960]

its gorgeous just get the kids to clean the rocks....  anyway it is beautiful..where did u get all the rocks?? r they just around where u live?? lorraine

[laguna]

The pond is gorgeous and you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it for about a year.

I know you're not going to be happy about this but the rocks really need to be removed.  By the end of next summer, there will be a large layer of muck under and between the rocks that will be anaerobic (no oxygen).  Bad bacteria that is harmful to the fish will grow there.  It will also give parasites a place to breed. 

Everything from fish waste and uneaten food to leaves and dirt that blow into the pond will settle in the rocks and rot there.  Once that happens, if you move the rocks with the fish in the pond, the gases that are released will kill them. 

It is possible to keep the rocks but you'll need to remove the fish every year, move the rocks around and clean the muck out of the pond.  You'll be amazed at how thick the layer will be under there in just a year.  It's like having your fish live in an unflushed toilet.

If you want the healthiest environment for your koi, the best thing to do is remove the rocks and use them in the landscape.

Yes..We will be moving the fish indoors in november ( Minnesota )..We will pressure wash and clean the pond every spring (  1 days work )..we have some freinds that have done the same thing year after year for 5 years and the koi they have are 16" to 24'' long and very healthy....The pond is a big show tank for 7 months and thats about it after all its Minnesota weather....I also use a microbe lift to help balance the pond during the summer....

Thanks for the concern....

Laguna.....The rocks are all from the surrounding farms behind my house..

[laguna]

Although the rocks give more surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow, that surface area does not help the anaerobic bacteria growing beneath the rocks.

If you drain the water in a rock lined pond and move the rocks, the smell of decaying organic matter will literally make you gag.

The larger the koi grow, the more waste they put off.  The more waste they put off, the more organic matter beneath the rocks to decay.

The fish will be fine for a year or so but they'll eventually begin to get bacterial infections, ulcers and die.  Unless the muck is removed from under the rocks.

I'm not trying to be negative as the pond truly is gorgeous.  But in 3 months, the rocks will be covered with algae so you really won't be able to see them.  They are a detriment to the fish and I definitely wouldn't let my kids swim in there after they've been in the pond a couple of months.  Anaerobic bacteria is not something you want your fish to be in contact with and especially not your children.

As for browsing the web and looking at rock lined ponds with large koi, ask how old the pond is and/or how much time and effort are spent cleaning under the rocks if the pond is a couple of years old.

Although still not an ideal situation, a rock lined pond is much better suited to goldfish since they don't get large and don't put out as much waste.
[/quote


Kids was a one time thing when the pond was filled up...Thanks for your concern..

Laguna

[laguna]

That pond is beautiful. I would not worry as much as the 2 above posters seem to be. You actually have 10 to 20 times or more surface area in you pond for beneficial bacteria to grow. I am sure with the proper circulation and aereation. your pond will do better than most. You have also given yourself some nice planting areas to which the roots will love you for it. Your pond will do great. Browse the web and look at ponds with rocks in them. I am sure the photos you see, with huge koi, will reassure you. I bet if you asked the fish in the 100's of photos I saw with rocks, they would tell you it is fine.

Again, sweet pond and enjoy!!

Thanks for the kind words....My filtration is set up for 6,000g and the pond is only 3,000g give or take 200g so Im not to concern over how my fish will do...
I visited about 6 different ponds in Minnesota and 1/2 take thier fish in during the winter and all have river rock bottom and the ponds are awsome looking...
and the clean it once every spring.....My pond is to showcase my Perennial garden not to raise show koi..

[laguna]

From another form
I really wouldent want a pond with rock !

Thats freakin NEGLECT...Im not a idiot....No Offence to the owner....

Laguna

[laguna]

Although the rocks give more surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow, that surface area does not help the anaerobic bacteria growing beneath the rocks.

If you drain the water in a rock lined pond and move the rocks, the smell of decaying organic matter will literally make you gag.

The larger the koi grow, the more waste they put off.  The more waste they put off, the more organic matter beneath the rocks to decay.

The fish will be fine for a year or so but they'll eventually begin to get bacterial infections, ulcers and die.  Unless the muck is removed from under the rocks.

I'm not trying to be negative as the pond truly is gorgeous.  But in 3 months, the rocks will be covered with algae so you really won't be able to see them.  They are a detriment to the fish and I definitely wouldn't let my kids swim in there after they've been in the pond a couple of months.  Anaerobic bacteria is not something you want your fish to be in contact with and especially not your children.

As for browsing the web and looking at rock lined ponds with large koi, ask how old the pond is and/or how much time and effort are spent cleaning under the rocks if the pond is a couple of years old.

Although still not an ideal situation, a rock lined pond is much better suited to goldfish since they don't get large and don't put out as much waste.
[/quote


Kids was a one time thing when the pond was filled up...Thanks for your concern..

Laguna

One time kid swim..

[carver]

Laguna,

Nice job! I know how much work it is gathering and placing all those rocks, I did the same thing myself. I brought home rocks by the trailer load all collected in farmland by hand and placed in the pond by hand.

I really hate it when someone says "you can't" or "you must", or uses the word never, or simply condemns what has been done like your committing a crime. I am not sure if it is the sometimes harsh way people say what they say or just the fact I hate to be told what I did for myself and my family did not fit into their mold and I need to change it.
Even though I do not see where Laguna was looking for advice, some just can not but help to give it.
There are proper ways to offer advice but stating one MUST, or should NEVER , or CONDEMNING what they have done, just is not how to do it.Not without having the person and as you can see from this post, others take offense, especially when the person was not looking for advise to start with.

At any rate, LAguna, nice looking pond, and if you have a problem with sludge build up, and find that you do not mind having to deal with it to keep your natural looking pond then more power to you.

I feel the same way. It really is what ever works for you. I had rocks, and this year decided I no longer wanted to do the work having them caused me, so I removed all but a few very large ones, I will not be setting up my 1400 gallon tank in the basement so the fish will stay out for the first time this winter, I cut the herd back to about 20 fish from over 100. Laguna, 4 years, with a heavy fish load, rocks and gravel on the bottom, my 11 original fish turned into over 200 by the end of the 3rd year. I never lost one fish from illness. I pressured washed the bottom yearly when I brought the fish in.
While I am on a rant....... for those who say not too...... I also confess to having fed my Koi catfish food for the past 4 years, and have not seen anything bad come from it. but if by chance my white fish are not as brilliant or the orange fish as orange as the ones fed koi food I sure they will never know it nor will I.

My apologies to everyone for my rant, but I feel once again the harshness of the unsolicited advice was uncalled for. 
My apologies also to you Laguna

Curt

[marla]

Great job on the pond it will look spectacular once the landscaping is grown in and the pond if full of plants.  I also along with my husband dug our pond shovel by shovel and lined it with rocks inside and out........and guess what every  spring (5 now) when we do a clean out it does not look anything like the one shown.  Yes there is algae, but with proper maitanace during the year it should not look like that. I do agree that one without rocks is easier to care for as I have one like that also, but the looks of rocks in the pond is just so nice.  You said you planned on bringing the koi in for the winter, where do you plan on putting them?  Koi really need a lot of room 250gal per large koi, less for little ones with good filtration.  Your pond is plenty deep you should be able to overwinter them outside, as long as you keep a constent hole open for gas exchange.  I'm in WI and our winters are cold also, my pond is not quite 3' deep and mine stay out and have survived so far.

[laguna]

Great job on the pond it will look spectacular once the landscaping is grown in and the pond if full of plants.  I also along with my husband dug our pond shovel by shovel and lined it with rocks inside and out........and guess what every  spring (5 now) when we do a clean out it does not look anything like the one shown.  Yes there is algae, but with proper maitanace during the year it should not look like that. I do agree that one without rocks is easier to care for as I have one like that also, but the looks of rocks in the pond is just so nice.  You said you planned on bringing the koi in for the winter, where do you plan on putting them?  Koi really need a lot of room 250gal per large koi, less for little ones with good filtration.  Your pond is plenty deep you should be able to overwinter them outside, as long as you keep a constent hole open for gas exchange.  I'm in WI and our winters are cold also, my pond is not quite 3' deep and mine stay out and have survived so far.

I thought about keeping them outside over the winter but I have a 500g water tank inside my garage( Dura Pure portable water tanks)..temp is kept at 45 degree so they shouldn't produce to much waste if not any at all.......Kinda what my buddy did it seems to work...He drains the water from outside pond into the holding tank and has two 55g drum filters for it....Im sure I will make a few mistakes..

I dont mind cleaning a pond out once a year, I help my buddy this year and it didnt seem to hard .. He would drain his pond out, Preasure wash it and remove a few rocks from the bottom to suck the muk out (very little muk for 7 months)....But it works in Minnesota ...

[miguynmkoi]

Great job on your new pond!!  For that size pond I'm surprised you only had 4 visits to the chiro!  And you have all those rocks!  I dug my own pond, way smaller, and very little rocks only because I don't want to visit the chiro!  And my back still hurts after 2 months.  Have to have it adjusted every so often (son is trained to do it for his personal trainer job).

Beautiful work!  Can't wait to see it with all the plants grown in in spring!

[laguna]

Great job on your new pond!!  For that size pond I'm surprised you only had 4 visits to the chiro!  And you have all those rocks!  I dug my own pond, way smaller, and very little rocks only because I don't want to visit the chiro!  And my back still hurts after 2 months.  Have to have it adjusted every so often (son is trained to do it for his personal trainer job).

Beautiful work!  Can't wait to see it with all the plants grown in in spring!

My back still hurts..I appreciate the guys who build koi ponds for a living or landscaping in general...

[landey1230]

I'm a big fan of waterfalls and your waterfall is fantastic.  Your pond looks like something out of a magazine.  Good job.   

[laguna]

I'm a big fan of waterfalls and your waterfall is fantastic.  Your pond looks like something out of a magazine.  Good job.   

I notice your from Arizona, how often do you have to add water to your pond?

[Mikey]

Great job on you pond.  Love those rocks!  They would cost an arm and perhaps a couple of legs if you had to purchase them around these parts.  Garden tours are great for getting ideas! 

[Johns]

Carver,

Everyone has a right to their own opinions, and all general rules are false, including this one.  "Always" and "never" are general rules.  BUT: Anyone who posts anything on a public forum is subject to "unsolicited advice", including, but not limited to you..  It is the nature of a forum.


The discussion of the pros and cons regarding "rocks on the bottom" is as old as the hobby of water gardening and will no doubt be around as long as the hobby.  There are, however some incontrovertible facts:  Rocks on the bottom are an aesthetic thing done for the "looks" of the pond according to the desires of the owner. The "dirty little secret" about water gardens is that lined ponds are not "natural" in any respect, but are actually outdoor aquariums.  Rocks on the bottom are exactly as described above: detrimental in the long run to livestock unless constantly maintained by extensive cleaning, a really nasty job that also is detrimental to livestock in causing the stress from relocation during the cleaning.  But once the ramifications are understood, the decision is up to the individual pond owner how to proceed. 

In my opinion, it is insensitive to "dump" on posters who look at the pond from the standpoint of the health and welfare of the fish when they offer advice that is factually correct and in favor of the livestock. I am certain that the posters meant no harm and only wanted to offer helpful information.


Every pond is different but I personally would never line a koi pond with rocks because of the tremendous increase in maintenance necessary, but I agree that a well maintained pond with rocks on the bottom can look very nice.  But then, I have only been keeping fish ponds for 37 years and I am still learning and my opinion is only worth what you pay for it. 

[landey1230]

I'm a big fan of waterfalls and your waterfall is fantastic.  Your pond looks like something out of a magazine.  Good job.   

I notice your from Arizona, how often do you have to add water to your pond?

Every week.  I'd like to install a leveler. 

[bunny56lbc]

You're pond is Beautiful ! Love the rock's . I didn't put any in any of my pond's because I didn't
like the thought of cleaning out all that fish poo in the Spring ....nasty !

bonnie

[spanishleprachaun]

niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee job !!! lookoing great !! can't wait to see some closeup fish pics when the season warms up for  ya !!! Nice first pond !! ` c

[Lawrence of PA]

Beautiful waterfall.  How many gph does it take to achieve that?