A wood fired water heater.

[turtlemike]

This is one of the things that has been keeping me busy lately.  It's a wood fired water jacket type water heater for my swimming pools in the green house with my tropicals etc. in them.     I finally got door holes cut in the conveyor belt rollers that I'm using to build it with,along with that cold snap, really motivated me to finish it as soon as possible.     It's one roller inside another one welded water tight to a top piece of plate steel three quarters of an in. thick. the rollers are a little less than a half in. thick.  Door frame welded water tight, and then a metal ring welded water tight between the two tanks to seal the space between them.    Then 2 pipes welded for water inlet and outlet.  A hole for the stove pipe to be welded to the top plate inside the inner tank.    Filled with water to test for leaks.   And a hole below the door for air flow to the fire.   Now I'm in the processes of building the door and hinges and welding on the 9 in. well casing that I'll use for stove pipe.   It will weigh over 800 pounds with no water in it.     I'm replacing a water heater that I built last year with copper tubing, its a closed system so no I'm not poisoning my plants with copper. I have plastic pipe coiled up in the bottom of my pools to dump the heat into the water then back to the heater.   All powered by a small pump from one of the pool filters.                Mike.

[casey]

Mike,

I have a question about your "old" heating system.  I am the one who started the whole "melt" debate with my question about snails harming baby lily leaves.  Hopefully this question will be easier and less controversial, although I think the debate has been a great learning process above and beyond the more mundane posts.  It's fun to have something to really challenge one's brain occasionally. 

Anyway, we were thinking of doing a heating system similar to the one you are replacing.  We're not interested in doing a wood one like yours as it's too impractical for Tucson, AZ.  We were going to get a regular electric water heater and run copper pipe from it and through our wading pools and then back into the heater.  It would be a closed system with the heat being disbursed radiantly.  Your comment about using plastic pipe so as not to poison the plants made me wonder if we have to change our thoughts to plastic.  Copper conducts much better so would work better.  If there are only mosquito fish & snails as animals in these pools, are we still apt to kill things, like the plants.  They are doing just fine with about 3 aquarium heaters in each pool that the change was only planned to be an improvement in logistics, not performance necessarily.  Any comments would be welcome. 

Thanks, Casey

[turtlemike]

Hi Casey.    Thanks for starting the "melt" debate. I also have enjoyed the learning processes and hope others have also.  I have learned that I am probably the cause of much of the controversy by my assumption that what Craig and others have called melt is the same thing that I have observed with my hardy seedlings.    I think we are dealing with two different phenomenon so it's logical that we would disagree and defend our positions.     I really wish there was a microbiologist or student of microbiology out there reading this who could help me identify this micro organism. All I know is that it seems to me to belong in the algal group chlorophyta and I would guess that it's cosmopolitan and common in damp soils and fresh water probably world wide.   It's probably well known and studied and named.  Wheres a microbiologist when you need one!                                                                                                                                                       OK heaters, I'm not clear about how you would radiantly heat a pool with hot water in copper pipes.   Except to suspend the tubing above the water to radiate down onto the plants.     This must not be what you mean.  It's much better to heat the water.    I'm thinking you meant that the heat would be dispersed   convectively  through submerged copper pipe.  If that is the case don't do it!   The copper will kill EVERYTHING, plants and animals including snails.     I highly recommend plastic 100 psi. water line  1 and three quarter in. dia is what I use . It dumps the heat just fine and the water returns to the heater much cooler than it left it.    I have an 18 ft. ez set pool with 100 ft. of pipe coiled up on the bottom held down by cinder blocks.  The water is a foot deep and I can raise the temp by 10 degrees F. in aprox. 3 hours of pumping 140 degree water through the plastic pipe. Also copper is expensive.   Dollar for dollar calorie for calorie plastic has to be a better deal.        And you can set your pots right on top of the pipe to hold it down like I do with  the cinder blocks.   I hope that helps.          Mike.

[turtlemike]

The old heater.

[turtlemike]

Upside down with door frame and ring welded between the two rollers. all sealed and tested.

[turtlemike]

Ez set pool 18 ft.

[casey]

Yes, we were planning to put the pipe under water and have the hot water moving through the pipes and the heater in a continuous loop heat the cooler water in the pools.  And you're right, that is convection heat not radiant. 

So, now I wonder why copper pipe would kill everything in the pool when much household plumbing that delivers water for us & our pets to drink and for us to water our plants is copper.  Knowing that he is the world's biggest collector, he probably has copper pipe already and thought it would transfer the heat better.

Casey

[turtlemike]

Exactly what I was thinking Casey . All I know is that I had an open system last year until all my snails and plants started dieing.  I realized what I was doing and changed all of the water and converted over to a closed system with plastic pipe and managed to save most of my plants.       I suspect that copper in house water is toxic to you and your plants.    It's just not circulated and recirculated over and over again through copper piping ,picking up more copper each time like in my open system.       I know that copper is a necessary micro nutrient but I think enough of it will kill about anything, including you and me.        I think I would let my water run for a while to flush out the copper lines before I drink any etc.         Please don't use copper pipe. It's not theoretical, I have proven it.  It will kill your plants.

[casey]

Thanks Mike.  Though we were talking about a closed system with copper pipes, the water would be exposed to the outside of the copper pipes all the time.  There is obviously no point in risking the plants if the plastic pipe will work and is cheap too.  I appreciate your comments and the benefit of your experience.

Casey

[turtlemike]

Hi Casey,  Glad I could help!       One more VERY important thing about a closed system .       Water is incompressible and expands when heated and will explode a rigid closed piping system.     Another thing is that air is very hard to get out of the system.    The cure for this is very simple.   What I did is to put a   T   in the line with the stem of the   T   facing up, then attach an open ended section of pipe long enough to reach above the highest point of your system and fill the pipe section with water and leave it open on top.   this performed two functions, it allows expansion and contraction of the water and provides a reservoir of water during contraction so that air doesn't enter the system.   And it functions as an automatic air bubble remover.     when an air bubble passes by it goes up the stem of the   T   and exchanges with the water, leaving the system.    it's important to get all air out because it acts like a partial blockage in the system since it is always trying to rise back to a higher spot in the system against the flow of water.  Since you are using an electric water heater I would attach this pipe to the pressure relief valve on top of the heater and leave the valve permanently open by flipping the lever on top of the valve.                                                                                                                                              Another thing I do is to put a section 4 or 5 ft. long of corrugated pool filter hose that came with my pools and attach it to the output of the pool pump that I use to power the system.     this section of flexible expandable hose reduces pipe hammer when the system is started up and is likely to reduce stress to the pump although it's probably not necessary.                                                                                                                                            One more thing,  attach your pump on the down stream of your cooling coils to keep the temperatures lower for your pump.    I have had water up to 160 degrees f. with no damage to my pumps.                                                                                                                                                              and another thing, I Have a pond master 900 gph. submersible pump hooked up in series with my small pool pump. Both submerged.  I turn them both on in order to move all of the air through and out of the system since the small pool pump doesn't have enough power to blow the bubbles through the down-slope parts of the system.  I then turn off the more powerful pump to save energy.

[turtlemike]

This pic shows the upright pipe in the upper left and the brown corrugated pipe in the lower left coming out of the tropical pool.     Mike.

[turtlemike]

Tropical pool And A red flare seedling for your enjoyment.      Mike.

[lorraine1960]

YOU'LL ARE SOMETHING ELSE.....  LORRAINE     

[turtlemike]

Water heater all completed and installed.     Works great!   With my solar power to run the pumps this makes a carbon neutral green house.          Mike.

[Ky Kim]

I also don't live too far away from you.  I think me and tink need to come and play.  We work hard!

Kim