Koi Herpes

[Julles]

Get this... I was at PetSmart Saturday, buying feeder goldfish to put in my turtle pond.  They're nice there, and will fish out the white and gold & white ones, if you tell them they are going to live in a pond, rather than be bait.

Well, they were talking about the special clearance discount on very large fancy fantail goldfish, orandas, black moores, etc.  ($10.49)  Then they talked about a black moore in with a whole bunch of others, and pointed out a big bump on his back.  They said this was a herpes lesion, and that it would grow and grow and then fall off, over and over again.  They had apparently been watching this go on for days, or even weeks.

They thought it was just fine and dandy, said it didn't harm the fish, and, as long as the other fish didn't come into DIRECT contact (meaning touching the bump), that it wasn't contagious.  I think they're CRAZY!

I'm not convinced that the lesion is herpes - Isn't herpes an open sore, and doesn't it always take the life of the fish? 

Either way, I can't see having a sick fish in with all the others, and just brushing off the recurring problem as if it's nothing.  Not to mention the chance that someone might unknowingly buy it!

And there I stood, with my bag of 22c red & white goldies, knowing full well that all the tanks at PetSmart are run through the same filter system.   

I did go ahead and take the fish.  They will NOT go into the koi pond, but stay in the turtle pond.

[Julles]

Here's a very interesting article that says KHV is curable, and that it does not recur:

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/KHV.html

[Rick]

I do not think that is KHV...

[Julles]

It can't possibly be KHV at PetSmart.  Here's something I found with just very little searching.

The speed with which KHV advances and kills carp has to be seen to be believed.
From contracting KHV and the disease going active/live, mortalities can be experienced in 1 to 2 days and with a steady stream of mortalities thereafter, you could possibly be looking at a near 80- 100% wipe out of a pond inside three weeks if the diseased is left unchecked and/or untreated at the diseases preferred operating temperatures. Herein lies yet another problem of diagnosis.
I think it’s true to say that even the advanced hobbyist when presented with KHV can be experiencing 30-50% mortalities; before he or she realizes they have or may have it. For the newcomer to the hobby this could be 60- 80% before they realize KHV, IF THEY EVER DO, such is the speed with which this virus kills

http://www.koiquest.co.uk/KoiHerpesVirus1.pdf

[Rick]

If the fish have KHV that means the biggest supplier of pet store fish will have khv also. There are about 40 min away from me I they do test...

[Julles]

Where are you, Rick?  I looked on your website, but it doesn't say a word about location.

[Rick]

They buy all there stuff from
www.segrest.com
They are about 40 minutes from me

[Sonny]

As far as I know...

1) KHV does not present itself as 'lesions'
2) KHV can lay dormant and kill only when temperatures fluctuate in a certain range
2) KHV does not affect goldfish, only koi (not sure if golfish can be carriers)
3) Goldfish can carry GHV (goldfish herpes virus) which can't affect koi
4) Goldfish can carry SVC (Spring Viremia of Carp) which is another viral disease that can affect koi and can be as devastating as KHV
4) A bump as described sounds more like a lymphocystis

There used to be a good website for help with diagnosing goldfish ailments.  PureGold I think but I can't find it anymore.  Here's a link to the Bristol Aquarists site that has some good info on goldfish diseases, symptoms and treatment: http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/diseases.htm

P.S.  I'm not an expert but I have been interested in these fish diseases for a while now, mostly from a goldfish perspective.  I've also had goldfish with lymphocystis that lived long, happy lives.

[Rick]

As far as I know...

1) KHV does not present itself as 'lesions'
2) KHV can lay dormant and kill only when temperatures fluctuate in a certain range
2) KHV does not affect goldfish, only koi (not sure if golfish can be carriers)
3) Goldfish can carry GHV (goldfish herpes virus) which can't affect koi
4) Goldfish can carry SVC (Spring Viremia of Carp) which is another viral disease that can affect koi and can be as devastating as KHV
4) A bump as described sounds more like a lymphocystis

There used to be a good website for help with diagnosing goldfish ailments.  PureGold I think but I can't find it anymore.  Here's a link to the Bristol Aquarists site that has some good info on goldfish diseases, symptoms and treatment: http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/diseases.htm

P.S.  I'm not an expert but I have been interested in these fish diseases for a while now, mostly from a goldfish perspective.  I've also had goldfish with lymphocystis that lived long, happy lives.

[Lynda]

All of the information above is correct - KHV does not affect goldfish.  It is always best, however, to quarantine any new fish before putting them in with an existing population - there are plenty of other parasites and diseases that can wipe out your pond. 

DO NOT get sucked into the misinformation on that fishy pharmacy site - KHV is NOT CURABLE.  Absolutely NOT.