New Pond Construction. Advice Please.......

[cm11599ps]

My wife is going to Spain this week for a month to take some classes.  In the meantime I'd like to do some projects around the house to surprise her.


I have an empty 9x14 flower bed that I'd like to convert into a koi pond with waterfall.  I've kept fish for about 20 years now and am familiar with all that is required but I need help with this project.

We live on Long Island and I know the pond should be 3 feet or so deep with sloped sides.

What else would I need?  I used a pond calculator online and it said I would need about a 19x24 liner and it would hold about 2,900 gallons. I used a max depth of 3 and an average depth of 2.  Not sure if those are the dimension I would need but what would you suggest for a 9x14 pond?

She leaves on June 30 and comes back July 30 so I'd like to have everything in place by then.

Please help!  Thanks!

[Holldoll]

You'll definitely want to make sure you have both a skimmer and a bottom drain.  We used a skippy filter for ours and it's been about 5 weeks and it's crystal clear. 

[cm11599ps]

My thoughts exactly.

My parents have an inground pool with skimmers and drain in the deep end.  The drain takes a lot of the junk out once it gets stirred up.

I'm clueless as to brands and sizes needed for all of this stuff.

[miguynmkoi]

Straight sides would be better wouldn't it?  My first pond has sloped sides and raccoons use to visit it.    My 2nd pond has straight sides and No visitors.     Also I read it somewhere too.

Good luck!  Make sure you get some photos for us!

[Johns]

As above, straight sides are a good idea.  You should, however, provide "steps" at one end of the pond to facilitate your mother-in-law being able to climb out of the pool when she falls in.

A 9 by 14 by  3 foot deep pool with absolute straight sides would hold 2,828 gallons.  A two foot average depth cuts the volume to 1,885 gallons  (See my pool calculator at http://www.gardenendeavors.com/rack/pool10.html )  Just for fun, peruse my entire website at www.gardenendeavors.com and you should find something useful for your purposes.

[miguynmkoi]

As above, straight sides are a good idea.  You should, however, provide "steps" at one end of the pond to facilitate your mother-in-law being able to climb out of the pool when she falls in.

 

[cm11599ps]

I kind of meant steps around the perimeter of the pond when I said sloped.  My fault.

Funny you mention mother-in-law.  She actually rents the downstairs part of our house from us.    

Any advice of what equipment to purchase?  I know nothing about brands, types, etc....

[cm11599ps]

I'm leaning towards a kidney shapre now.

[Otter]

Three feet would be good for goldfish, but if you want koi, you should dig at least a foot deeper.  Six feet of depth is preferred for koi.  They are very big fish evolved for life in rivers, and hence they need the extra depth to get enough exercise in a small pond without much current.  You may actually see them near the surface more often if they know they have a nice deep hole to dive into to get away from predators.  Also, koi are a bit more delicate than fish that haven't been bred primarily for color for 200 years, and the deeper water will allow them to stay warmer in the winter.

[frloplady]

steps around the edge..also called a plant shelf are great fishing areas...for the herons and the raccoons. Straight sides at LEAST 4' for koi and deeper is better.

Get the plan on paper before you put shovel to dirt.  How much room do you have for filtration?  Settlement tank? yes to bottom drain(s) and skimmer.  Idea is to get the poop OUT of the water not just trap it for the water to flow through.

Mary

[ThornyGardener]

Let me introduce the most important consideration: Your wife's opinion. A pond is big in all ways -- cost, labor and visibility in your yard. You don't want to create something she doesn't like the looks of (and some wives do have certain aethetic standards that oft-times differ from the big-screen-tv-recliner-and-I'm-happy aesthetics of some husbands). And even if she is flexible on the hardware part of a pond, she may have definite ideas on the types of fish and plants she wants to see. How about a picture of a pond gift wrapped with a pretty ribbon so she can give you her input? And in the next few weeks you can study up on everything.

My list of “must haves”: Bottom Drain (preferably aerated) with TPRs to return water and create a spin towards bottom drain like a toilet bowl; skimmer; UV light; Straight Sides to keep out predators; At least 4' deep
 
A 1'x1' cement collar pays off in the long run as over time the dirt compresses when people stand on the edges to peer in -- perching stone "necklace" around edge does not help, in fact thin flagstone will flip your male guests in the pond. (If a woman steps on a stone and it moves, she steps off. If a man steps on a stone and it moves, he bounces up and down on it and shouts, "Hey cm11599ps! Didja know this stone is looooooooooo" SPLASH! The falling stone will cut your liner.)

I also strongly recommend valves (gate for on/off; ball if for flow adjustments) and ferncos/couplers on the outside of every component so water to it can be sealed off and component repaired/replaced. Also helps for isolating sections to find the leak.

A kidney shape can create dead spots so you would need 2 bottom drains, preferably aerated.

Is this garden bed against the house? You want to have full 360 degree access to the pond and falls.

IMO if you plan to have koi, a skippy filter is insufficient. (Sorry, holldoll, but anything is still clear in 5 weeks; talk to me in 5 years when your koi are more than 2' long, 8" deep and depositing poo the size of that of a cat's.) You need a mechanical method to remove the koi waste (wisest is gravity fed to vortex settling chamber) and then an area for biological filtration to take place, ie a container of media on which good bacteria grow and convert the bad stuff to neutral or good stuff. When choosing filtration you have to ask yourself how much [day-week-month] maintenance chores you are prepared to do. Many years ago,  I thought people were crazy buying $1000 filters when I could buy a $30 sponge-on-sub-pump at HD or Lowes. Then I was cleaning it 6x a day and still couldn't see the fish through the icky water.  Choose filtration system with easiest maintenance.

Do a little more planning, as Mary recommends.

[Otter]

(If a woman steps on a stone and it moves, she steps off. If a man steps on a stone and it moves, he bounces up and down on it and shouts, "Hey cm11599ps! Didja know this stone is looooooooooo" SPLASH! The falling stone will cut your liner.)

Do we really need misandry and sexual stereotypes in this discussion?

[Johns]

Yes! By all means, Otter!  It adds to the interest, at least if it is true. Of course, my own personal experience is that just about everyone who visits my ponds, male or female, wants to step as close to the pond edge as possible.  I recall one lady upon being told that bluebirds had hatched out in a birdhouse adjacent to and facing a pond, without warning lept over turkscap lilies and beebalm , landing on a loose rock on the pond edge, and peered directly into the birdhouse, scaring the hatchlings silly.  The fact is you can never anticipate all of the stupid erratic behavior of visitors to your Eden, so keep your insurance coverage up to date!  Over the years, I have had many visitors to my gardens, and about ten years ago I posted the following that I always point out to new visitors:

[Otter]

This reminds me of of an old fort or mission I visited in New Mexico years ago.  The park service had posted a sign requesting that everyone stay on the path in order to protect the rattlesnakes.

[lorraine1960]

someone please explain the bottom drain and how it works...is this with a liner????? i keep hearing about them from you all ....how do u do it??/ lorraine

[Holldoll]

IMO if you plan to have koi, a skippy filter is insufficient. (Sorry, holldoll, but anything is still clear in 5 weeks; talk to me in 5 years when your koi are more than 2' long, 8" deep and depositing poo the size of that of a cat's.)

I agree with most of what you said, but not this.  All but one of my koi over 5 years old (I inherited them 4 years ago, and at that time they were at least 2 years old) and 2' long and 8" deep.  I've had my new pond running for about 2.5 months and it's crystal clear.  My old pond was much too small for the amount of fish in it and it ran for 2 years with crystal clear water and great parameters with just a skippy.  My first pond had a $4000 (not built or purchased by me) mechanical filter on it and I couldn't keep that water clean for more than a week at a time.  I'm sold on the skippys.

[Otter]

someone please explain the bottom drain and how it works...is this with a liner????? i keep hearing about them from you all ....how do u do it??/ lorraine

A bottom drain is just that, a drain in the bottom of the pond.  If done right, it makes the pond largely self-cleaning.  The drain is at the lowest point of the pond and is plumbed to a settlement chamber or filter.  Just as a skimmer draws in anything that floats, the drain takes care of anything that sinks.  To make the bottom fully self cleaning, the entire pond must be designed with the drain(s) in mind.  The waterfall, skimmer, and returns are placed to create a spiral current that will sweep debris to the drain.  There are usually tangential pond returns (TPR's) to create deep currents, and the bottom often slopes down to the drain.  A dome on top of the drain makes it pull from the sides, and often there's an air diffuser on top of the dome to create a "doughnut" current that will draw debris down the sides of the pond and across the bottom to the drain.

You can have a bottom drain with any type of pond construction, and if you're building a new pond, you'd be a fool not to.

http://www.highdesertkoi.com/bottom_drains.htm
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55540