Author Topic: My new mud buttom lilly pond.. question about planting (Read 2607 times)

tinkster · « **on:** March 10, 2009, 11:26:36 AM »

The monster lotus pond is now my lilly pond. It is about 7 ft x 3 ft or so and full of the rich manure i had in there for the lotus. I also have alot of bog plants growing around the inside perimenter of the pond so it basically looks just like a mud bottom pond. I thought i would give this pond to just one lily. Although i have not seen Mayla bloom, mine was received to late last year from what yall tell me she would be showy enuff to turn lose in this pond. Any reason i should not plant her just right in the mud instead of leaving her in her pot.. I presume i can pull up the extras when it over crowds??? or would she be better left in a pot.

Tink

Kat · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:03:42 PM »

If it was me I'd plant it directly in the mud. Be sure to show us pictures as that will be a sight to see. Also, if you do decide to plant a second type of lily (tropical) or hardy with speckled pads you'll be able to tell it apart from Mayla's pads.

bunny56lbc · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2009, 02:08:37 PM »

I agree with kat . Plant the lily right into the mud .
I'm thinking of doing something like that to one of the smaller ponds .
bonnie

Sunbeam56 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2009, 03:26:13 PM »

Plunk, squish.

Joyce · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2009, 03:49:21 PM »

Sploosh!

turtlemike · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:42:26 PM »

Hi Tinkster, planting in mud bottom ponds is something I know a lot about. First of all Mayla is an odorata type plant that would definitely take over the whole pond rapidly. It's also a leafy plant when given high fertility. It would probably be a better choice than say, Fire Opal because it doesn't make as many offshoots and wouldn't need thinned as often. But it's a bigger plant than fire opal with a lower flower to leaf ratio although the leaves are very nice. If you plant in a pot it will jump out of the pot and be in the bottom very soon anyway unless you keep an eye on it. One thing I can tell you is that odorata plants are way easier to dig than what they call marliac type roots. which makes them easier to thin out. I walk through the bed and dig up the roots with my toes while I pull up on the plant.I would say you would have to thin it every year to keep it flowering. What I think I would do is plant 3 to 4 BIG, 5 to 10 gal. pots of some plants that don't need thinned every year and are easier to keep controll of. that way you can keep down some of the rampant growth and piling up of leaves that hide the flowers and also have a mix of colors. use low fertility soil and the plants will feed off of the nutrients in the water and will put down roots through the holes in the pot bottom to get fertilizer. James brydon is a great red to pink similar to mayla in color that doesn't overcrowd rapidly. The pics of james Brydon that I have posted are of my bed that I planted 8 years ago when the pics were taken have never been thinned . Nothing has more flowers first thing in spring and leaf growth is moderate without much piling up. If you turned James Brydon loose in your pond it would take years before it needed thinned and one crown would take 3 or 4 years to completely fill the pond. Pink grapefruit is a great pink and yellow that doesn't need divided often. Clyde Ikins makes about as many flowers as it does leaves and hardly makes offshoots so it doesn't overcrowd at all really with it's low leaf density. Clyde gets my vote for the yellow- orange category to turn loose in a pond like yours. It would take years and years to get overcrowded. My Clyde bed is 7 years old and I have divided it almost as much as I can and it's still not crowded. Water still visible between the leaves with a very high flower to leaf ratio. And it never makes seed, mayla will self pollinate and probably fill the pond with seedlings. James brydon never makes seed for me and pink grapefruit makes very few. As far as reds are concerned Attraction can hardly be beat and dosent make seed. Also even though I've only had it for two years I really like Almost Black, slow growing and not to leafy, just beautiful. The first pic is an 8 year old James Brydon bed. The second is pink grapefruit upper and Clyde Ikins lower left. The third is allmost black. The fourth is mayla in fertile conditions, very leafy.

tinkster · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:17:16 PM »

oh wow.. you've given me much to think about. I really would like something that would flower profusely, this tiny pond sits right infront of my main pond and is a big focal point.

I thought about my colorado, its a bloom machine for me. I have james brydon, attraction and almost black. I just picked the mayla since she was a new plant last year and not in a permanent home yet. hmmm..... of the brydon, attraction or almost black, which do you think would bloom the most.. this dirt will be SUPER fertile. IT is straight bags of manure and compost I put in for the lotus.

Your lillies are beautiful! I wish my brydon looked like that.. i devided to share and its never bounced back.

tinkster

landey1230 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:35:45 PM »

Show us some pics Tink. I always think of Joyce's pond when mud ponds are discussed.

turtlemike · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2009, 02:47:52 PM »

Hi Tinkster. VERY fertile huh. That makes me like the potted method even more. I have two ponds that are very fertile, one is VERY fertile since a very fertile organic garden area and lots of surface area drain into it. The plants that grow in this pond tend to have there leaves pile up above the surface and when this happens aphids and sun and heat turn the leaves bronze color. In other words brown. so what you get is somewhat less bloom numbers, big beautiful flowers that are hidden by brown leaves. Very deep water helps prevent this but from your description your pond cant be that deep. Some plants pile up way more than others. Pink Grapfruit piles up much less than Texas Dawn for instance. I wish I could be more help in this regard but I don't have much experience with very fertile ponds and my VERY fertile pond is in the valley and I don't see it much because I'm always up on the hill doing crosses. I wish I could answer your questions better. For instance I have never seen Brydon or attraction growing in very fertile conditions, attraction is a pretty leafy plant normally and I suspect would pile up pretty much in shallow fertile water. I know even less about Almost Black since I've only had it for 2 years I just know I love it and it grows slow. My main idea is that the pots of low fertility soil will act as a buffer of sorts and reduce the plants ability to tap right into the manure. Believe me that the lilies can and will get all of the nutrients they need from the water alone even with pots with no holes, which may be best. I would put no more than 3 BIG pots in the center, deepest part. One more thing. Colorado is a great bloomer but it's also a rampant propagator and will crowd it's self out quickly. My Colorado bed was three crowns 3 years ago and now is so crowded it almost doesn't bloom at all. Also why Colorado got so common so quickly. Lots of plants quickly for growers to sell. But not so good for gardeners unless you don't mind repoting yearly. Do you have to re pot your Colorado often? I put some in pots late 2 years ago and they bloomed well last summer. First pic Texas Dawn and Mayla in fertile shallow, 1.5 FT. water showing some piling up leaves on the Texas Dawn. Next is Attraction in moderately fertile shallow conditions with some piling of leaves. Third is Colorado in a pot. ok I'm having pic problems.the second pic is colorado the third is Attraction You know I dont want to misidentify any pictures! Whew!

tinkster · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2009, 03:40:55 PM »

I could sit and look at your pictures all day! I been sitting here waiting for you to change and get the attraction up there

. Attraction was my first water lilly when i started 10 years or so ago in a smal prefomed with almost no sun but it would get a few blooms early in the season before the trees shaded it out. Will always be one of my favs.

I repot all my lilies and devide them early every spring. One year i didnt devide colorado and she just continued to grow out of the pot and into the pond and bloomed the same. I add oscomite to the bottom of the tub then i fertilize monthly with jobes tomatoe stakes. Each year i get less and less blooms because of a tree on the neighboring lot is taking more and more sun from my pond. I am stretching to get 6 hours on most of the pond.

I hope I can still come visit your ponds this summer. I am sooo looking forward to that.

tinkster

turtlemike · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:30:15 PM »

Yea Tinkster come on out. It wont be long and things will be blooming like crazy around here. Bring a friend or your DH with you if you want. First time visitors usually start to hear "dueling banjos" in there heads on the way here because it's so far back in the hills and get scared. Don'T worry I'm harmless and the neighbors are all very friendly and mostly have teeth. That's sad about your lack of sun, that's one thing I have plenty of and I'm sure that's why I have so many blooms. Send me a list of plants that you have and maybe we can do some trading. You could bring some with you when you come and take some home. One more pic to look at. It's one of my seedlings, very similar to Colorado in color and holds it's flowers above water. it has been growing for 5 years and has not overcrowded.

bunny56lbc · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:48:23 PM »

Quote from: tinkster on March 11, 2009, 03:40:55 PM

I could sit and look at your pictures all day!
tinkster

So could I !

You're lilies are Beautiful !

bonnie

tinkster · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:36:29 PM »

mike. My mothers poeple live in the top of a remote mountain in N Carolina and my dad from Blaine/TADPOLE / Louisa KY so nothing your way could surprise me .... As always when I go to meet someone from the 'internet' (we are all ax murderers) my dad will be having them drag your pond for my body if I am a 10 minutes late.

And WOW i love that lilly

Thanks to the people here on the forum, I have some bog plants that you dont typically see in our area at any of the stores. A few of my favorites are Siberian Pink Cups, Yerba Mensa and Silk Stockings. If you want to see some of my pictures my site is www.tinkster.com The pink cups and silk stockings are in the grey round planter together and the yerba mensa is the different looking white plant by the pond. I have tons of variegated celery, horsetail, grasses, water forgetmenots, creeping jenny, most groundcovers etc. and LOTUS coming out my ears. Let me know what you might be interested in.

Tinkster

tinkster · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:53:06 PM »

Hey Bunnie.. come on down and go with me ;0)

Tink

bunny56lbc · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2009, 01:24:58 PM »

Quote from: tinkster on March 11, 2009, 06:53:06 PM

Hey Bunnie.. come on down and go with me ;0)

Tink

I would LOVE to but I don't think my DH would let me off ...from milking ...and I'm up to my elbows with all the flower / garden seeds planted....

bonnie

turtlemike · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2009, 04:31:21 PM »

Tink, WOW, very pretty pics. very lush and colorful. obviously a lot of work but worth it. All I have on land are some daffodils and some land lilies and some iris. I also have siberian iris yellow flag and that rusty red iris, I think Louisiana iris I'm not sure. Is that red bergamot behind a banana tree? I have red bergamot by one of my ponds in the valley and some lemon balm, spearmint, peppermint, apple mint,and 2 small ponds filled with anacharis. I planted a silk stockings years ago along with some arrow head but it has disappeared. I also have a golden club plant. I also have nelumbo nucifera and nelumbo lutea seeds that were collected in the wild and might still have some growing in a pot that I sprouted. I figured with you living in eastern KY.that you may have been up a few hollers and wouldn't be to scared. It's really easy to get here and you can drive right to my ponds if it's not to wet even in a small car. And I'll do every thing I can to get you safely home on time. I sure don't want anybody stirring up my pond! I cringe when swimmers stir up even a little mud even though it settles right to the bottom and disappears mostly. I need clear vision under water for striping petals and bagging pods.

turtlemike · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2009, 04:45:09 PM »

I haven't shown this plant before. It's color is very much like pink grapefruit, although not as yellow and doesn't vary as much. The main thing about it is it flowers a lot and the flowers are always held high above the water.

marla · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2009, 09:17:48 AM »

Oh Tink, your pond and landscapeping is AMAZING!!!! So lush and green, makes me yearn for warmth, I wish I lived somewhere warmer and could grow half those plants. Turtlemike, all your lilies are fabulous, wish I could visit and just sit and enjoy it all.

LeeAnne151 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2009, 10:50:52 AM »

Dueling banjos, LOL

Great pictures. That James Brydon is my fave by far. Gorgeous. Love all those blooms.

Tink, I just bookmarked your site, haven't looked yet but I'm sure it is gorgeous.

I hate that while I'm in zone 8, we have only a few days a year over 80* and about 200 days where it isn't sunny so my waterlilies and other plants just don't do so well. They aren't lush and full and rarely need divided. I'm jealous though I can do without the humidity that you have in the South.

tinkster · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2009, 11:28:05 AM »

leeanne.. its not really a site. Most of it is hidden and used to upload/store my photos for ebay. I just have one page with a few pics on it. Might someday try to make it more appealing but always afraid i will mess up and lose all my ebay photos

Mike, That is Bee Balm behind the banana tree and i do have some banana tree pups if your interested. ITs one of my favorite plants. I dont really have many land plants either. I have found a few varietes, mostly ground covers that are the bulk of the green and lush. My banks are steep, solid rock with small areas of sand and what holes i can dig seem to wash down the hill. I am now pouring concrete in the shape of rocks to create a pot/hole behind the rock to plant in. I have spent a fortune on pernnieals that just wont take hold up there and die. Anyway. Let me know if you want any of what small thingys I have. My pond plants do very well so I have plenty of those to share.

I guess since you dont like swimmers that kind of destroys my thoughts of bringing my hip waders to get in your ponds

After i sloosh around in those i imagine you would have a good layer of silt on everything.

Tinkster

turtlemike · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2009, 05:34:36 PM »

Oh no I don't really mind swimmers, I swim every day but I do try to keep the mud stirring down. But fear not, your welcome to swim with the lilies. But you don't need waders just swim right up to them and stick your face in the flowers and just stand there and enjoy them at face level. All you need is a swimsuit. I also have air mats that you can float on and get the same in your face experience. I probably spend more time than almost anybody else with my face stuck in lily flowers. Almost every day for 2 or more months during breeding season from the crack of dawn till about noon or 1 o'clock. I love my job! Maybe eventually I'll even make money at it. Swimming around and drinking nectar is fun and tasty, you'll like that. Yea bee balm, bergamot, same thing. I want to get some, What is it , cardinal flower I think. It's a lobelia I think, along the same color lines as red bee balm. I know where some grows down by the river. Is that the hardy banana that will overwinter in our area under mulch. I hear they will take 15 below. If not do you bring it in the house for the winter? Around my ponds I've planted every native carex species I could find growing locally in ditches and ponds etc along with several elocharis species like spike rush, Chinese water chestnut and square stem rush. some wool grass and bull rush. I also have a giant bulrush that grows 6 to 8 FT. high and as big as your little finger that is really beautiful but it spreads and moves into deep water and competes with my lilies so I've been trying to eradicate it from my big pond. luckily it's easy to kill I just break it off underwater and it drowns and dies like cattails do only more so. For your enjoyment, this plant has run of the mill flower color but the leaves are so beautiful. They are so smooth that they look fake. Very waxy flat laying multi colored striped and splotched leaves that range from beautiful shades of red on young leaves, to chartreuse with red splotches, to brown, to dark green with light green stripes to very dark green all on the same plant at the same time. Definitely a breeder or at least a keeper for me to enjoy. I cant remember if it makes seed or not. The seed bag in the pic may indicate that it does. If so I may already have seedlings of it growing right now. I just planted over a thousand sprouts and am getting ready to plant another thousand more that are just sprouting. And that's just the beginning. The spring rush is on!

tinkster · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2009, 03:42:40 PM »

I dont really understand all or any of what goes on when your breeding lilies but cant imagine how you watch/monitor that many 'sprouts', I just enjoy lilies and yours are beautiful and when i come would love to see how you do it all.

I am not sure i could swim without my waders, I am afraid of snakes and things most ponders are not hehehe oh well now yall know.

I have tried the cardinal pond plant several times. Lowes one year had huge nice plants with the blooms already on them. I have had no luck and i have tried everything. I think they like just damp soil more than being in water so i thought they would love just the moist side of the bog but nope. The banana tree is suppose to winter over and i see ones here locally they dont dig but so far I have just dug mine up and tossed the bulb on the ground in my dark basement. Then in spring I just plant it back. ITs getting so big now this year i am gonna leave the big one in the ground to see if it winters over and just dig a few of the pups, its so big I doubt I could get it out of the ground again. Last year when i dug it i wasnt thinking about when you cut the top off yoru suppose to leave about 2 ft of the stalk, I didnt do that and cut it right to the bulb, I am hoping that it will still come back but your willing to try a pup if ya wants.

Tink