Fertilizer question.

[PondmaninAL]

I use to mix four bags of topsoil with one bag of composted manure. Last year, I started adding a quarter cup of Osmocote in the bottom of the mix. The question is should I use the composted manure with the Osmocote? Also, is a quarter cup enough or do I need to use more?

I'm getting ready to re-pot all my water lilies when the temps warm up and that means buying everything I need. One more question. Is the indoor/outdoor plant Osmocote the one that I am suppose to be using? I found that the Lowe's here has the bags of it that are much bigger than the plastic jars.

[Kat]

Joyce uses composted manure as part of her planting formula.  The Osmocote I use is the veggie one with the green cap & is 14-14-14.  I'll also add Colorburst fertilizer if I want an extra boost & it is 15-30-15.  Both can be bought at Home Depot.  I'll add a single layer on the bottom of the pan & it will cover about 1/2 the surface.  Lasts all season long.

[Bearb]

Scott, I don't mean to hijack your thread here, but I have a related question. Does time release fertilizer like osmocote loose potency over time? I have a bunch left over from last year, it has sat in my garage all winter. It stayed dry but was subjected to some time below freezing. I can't imagine that this is a problem, but I'd hate to use it if it is not gong to work.

[PondmaninAL]

You're not hijacking, Bearb. It fits the post.


Kat, how much of the Osmocote do you use per pot and what size pot?

[Desertponder]

On the subject of Osmocote, I would have to go back through my information to find the specifics but another thing to consider when using Osmocote is your water temps. Those of you in warmer climates won't have any problems but those in cooler climates may not have much success with Osmocote. I don't remember if it was Joyce or Craig that told me that Osmocote releases at a consistent temperature. If you don't have that temp consistently, Osmocote won't work very well for you.
I've tried the Osmocote in the bottoms of the pots and had very poor lily performance and very few blooms when I did. It was suspected that my water temps never really increased enough to release the Osmocote and feed the lilies. I went back to using the tomato spikes the next year and had an excellent bloom season.

[PondmaninAL]

Thank you, Shanna. That was very interesting to know. So, now I'm wondering. If I mix five bags of topsoil with one bag of composted manure and then add one tomato spike once a month starting a month after re-potting, would that give me good results?

[tinkster]

Scott,, I used tomato stakes for years and have prolific blooms.. Then I tried the oscomote and am not sure if I got enuff in or not but didnt have much blooms, also where my koi dig in the pots I think some of the oscomote floated out and fertilized my water some. So the next year I went to oscomite on the bottom, I use a 12 x 12 or so dish pan.. sometimes bigger kitty litter pans and almost covered the bottom.  then I still add my tomato stakes monthy.  2 to a pot.  I cant really tell if the bloom is any better than with jsut the tomato stakes.  Its hard for me to bet tomatoe stakes and pure clay.  I am going back to clay this year.  My koi are digging and uprooting and my pots have no dirt left in them.  I never had that problem with clay and my lilies always had blooms on them.. many.

tink

[Bearb]

My (very limited) experience is just the opposite re: tomato spikes v. Osmocote. Actually I used a different brand time release fertilizer. . . When I used tomato spikes I never got blooms, last year I switched to time release and got a ton of blooms! I did not use anywhere near the amount recommended here because (if memory serves) the amount listed on the label was MUCH less. I ended up using a bit more than the label recommended but by no means were the bottoms of the pans covered with fertilizer. I also used no soil, just sand covered with pea gravel. I think I could have gotten away with less. . . I had a good deal of green water last year and I think the sand and gravel (or more accurately the lack of soil) may have allowed more nutrients to leach out. That said, it was also the first season for a rebuilt pond so much of the green water can be attributed to "new pond syndrome."

Unless someone thinks my fert. may have lost potency over the winter, I will use less than last year and see if I get sufficient blooming.

[Kat]

I remember something mentioned about the Osmocote needing a certain range of temps, too.

I don't have specific pan sizes other than 1 gallon pots for my tropicals, dishpans for my hardies.  I'll coat the bottom of the dishpan with a single layer of fertilizer covering about 1/2-3/4 of the pan.

Mixture of Osmocote (veggie formula) & Colorburst. 

[Kittyzee]

Bearb:  I am no expert, but I keep my Osmocote in the garage and it gets as cold out there as it does outside in the winter.  It hasn't lost any of its potency that I can see. 

[Freddie Peepers]

I live in one of the colder zones (5).....I used the composted manure and osmocote formula with great success last year and wouldn't hesitate to use the same method again this year

[Bearb]

Thanks Kittyzee, that is what I thought. . .

Kat, I use dishpans for my hardies too, perhaps a bit smaller than the one you pictured (hard to tell). FWIW last year I used much less than your picture shows and had plenty of blooms. None of my lilies have been around long enough to be huge multi-growing tip plants. During the heat of the summer one of them had 7 blooms at a time (maybe 20-25 leaves). Perhaps I will try less fert this year, see if I have fewer blooms; then extra the next. Who am i kidding, I'll probably end up doing what I did last year, I don't want to risk fewer blooms and to be honest, I don't want more either. . .

[Johns]

Polymer coated slow release fertilizers were developed about 35 years ago and have been commercially available to home gardeners for at least 20 years.  Since development there have been a multitude of variations and improvements made.  These fertilizers are often called "timed-release" fertilizers, but they are more accurately referred to as "controlled-release" (CRF) fertilizers.  This is because the mechanism of release, while always dependent on some moisture being present may be more sensitive to temperature or moisture or the passage of time, once activated.  Some CRF products are formulated to dissolve slowly.  Other CRFs have a polymer coating that allows for nutrient delivery via osmosis (Hence Osmocote).  These CRFs have been engineered to cover many different  environments to allow matching of the product to the agricultural use.   CRFs may be selected with longevities ranging (all at 70 degrees F) from 3 to 4 months all the way up to 14 to 16 months and in just about any combination of nutrients from 20-6-12 to 14-14-14 to 22-2-3.  I've used CRFs in my pond plants for over 15 years and always purchase it in 50 pound bags, never the little jars sold at home improvement stores.  It is expensive, (From $50 to $80 for 50 lbs) but invaluable, as it allows for one time fertilization of plants that you'd rather not disturb from their pond locale.  properly stored controlled release fertilizers have an almost unlimited shelf life if kept completely dry.  Because of this I always store unused product in 6 gallon plastic buckets that have a lid with a rubber ring that makes the lid airtight.
I use a CRF known as "Multicote 6", manufactured by Tri Pro Inc.  It is labeled as 15-15-15, but includes 1% Magnesium and .15% iron.  It is a polymer coated NPK fertilizer programmed to release nutrients continuously at a rate adjusted to plant requirements.  The release rate is governed by temperature. Multicote 6 releases nutrients evenly over 6 months at 70 degrees.  The release rate is affected only by temperature, not by moisture, nor by bacterial action.  Below are the release rates for various average temperatures:


Average Temperature                    Longevity
              60                                       7-8 months
              70                                        6 months
              80                                       4-5 months
              90                                     3-4 months

One can easily see that in a climate such as zone 7a in which I reside, that even if the pond water temperature was at an average of 90 degrees for 3-4 months, that the timed release fertilizer would last at least that long. In other words, assuming that water average temperature was 90 degrees all summer long and you fertilize with this product on May 1st, it would be actively releasing nutrients continuously through at least  mid-August.  Not bad, even at the worst case.  Actually, my pond water never approaches 90 degrees, rarely getting above 80 degrees, and the average temperature from April 1st (when I do most of my repotting) through September is closer to 70 degrees, giving me nutrient release all the way from may 1st to September 30.  Not only that, but the release increases as temperature rises, and decreases as temperature falls, matching the water lilies demand for nutrients, as they grow faster at warmer temperatures and slower as temperatures drop.
Here is a partial list of some of the brand names of CRFs: 

Nutricote
Multicote
Osmocote
Apex
Diffusion
Florikan
Polyon

[Bearb]

Great John! Very informative and yes thank you, I should have been saying Controlled release not time released. . . I don't remember what brand I have nor do I remember reading at what temperature it was designed to release, but it seemed to fit well with the water temps my 5b/6a pond sees. I suspect it is very similar to Osmocote's design/formulation. It is good to know about the almost unlimited shelf life. The bottle I bought will last my little pond 10 seasons at the rate I use it. I could never use a 50 pound bag. . .

[landey1230]

Osmocote doesn't last throughout the season here in Buckeye, AZ.  I use dirt and Jobe's tomato spikes.  Using the spikes, I am able to fertilize every other month.  Hardies are potted in a plastic oil pan.  Tropicals are potted in a gallon (deeper the better) pot.  1 spike per pot.  I break it in half and place each half on opposite sides. 

[Missa]

I have a question about fertilizing lotus. I've heard they're heavy feeders. I've also heard people say they use fruit tree spikes & I was wondering if the whole spike is used for a lotus tub (half a 55 gallon barrel) or just part .... Broken up & dispersed around the tub, seeing as how they're heavy feeders?

[Desertponder]

Its interesting how certain things work for some and not for others and you really wonder what can be the factors that make it so.

I know that I won't even mess with Osmocote. That was the biggest waste for me. I'll stick to the tomato spikes as they seem to work really well for my situation.

[Bearb]

Shanna, I agree 100%, that is why forums like this are so helpful. Even though you are still limited to anecdotal evidence, we have have access to a lot more than one or two people's experiences with products/techniques. The limiting factor is still the variability between everyone's situation. I try to add some context to what I mention (other factors that I think may be related). The idea being that eventually we might notice that x seems to correlate with y and not so much with z, but there are many other factors at play that we may not think to consider.

[Johns]

EVERY pond is different.  That is the one true statement about ponds.  When I was selling water lilies I had two ponds exactly the same size (6 feet by 12 feet by 2 feet deep) that were side by side with identical treatment and identical fish stock and sometimes one would be pea soup and the other as clear as crystal. 

[Vickie]

I don't use Osmocote. I use pond tabs because I want tubers from my tropical liles. For a better chance for me to do that I quit feeding my lilies in August. With Osmocote they would still be getting fed and I might not get as many tubers. I do not want to throw away tropical lilies every Fall and buy new ones every spring. To me it is a waste of my money to do that. But the people who sell lilies want you to buy them every year.