Author Topic: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?  (Read 4919 times)

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Offline karen J

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Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« on: April 14, 2010, 08:12:39 PM »
We have a ton of feral cats in our neighborhood. Last year (winter) there were a pair that took up residence under out deck. I suspect they ousted the resident groundhog.

Come May, and one has gone away and the other showed up with two little kittens.

Here we are in April, the mother has gone and the one kitten (we call her "pink nose"), now one year old, had 4 babies in our window well on Palm Sunday.

I've been feeding the mom (all meat scraps, raw meat, bones, liver ). We still feed the other one ("dirty nose"), but that one doesn't come around as much.
Pink Nose has 4 mouths to feed.

So what I want to do is bring the mother in to the "spay and stay" program; ie we pay for the spay and shots, then the cat gets to come back to our property to live out her life (kitten free). She's very skittish and wont let us pet her. However, we haven't had any mice in the house... none!  O0

The kittens are adoptable and socializable (is that a word?). We would have to handle them enough as kittens, then they'd be relinquished to Save-A-Pet to be cared for and adopted.

My kids want to adopt them ALL. Four cats is too many cats! But my kids are totally smitten... What to do? They are really cute kittens! They opened their eyes a week ago today.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Karen
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Offline Kat

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 03:15:08 AM »
I ended up with a large feral pack roaming my small back yard.  Used a large dog crate cage with a string attached to the door to close it whenever a cat would get into it to eat the food.  Had the ones that could stay fixed & the rest had to go to a shelter.  We were able to keep 3 of the kittens & a 4th went to a friend--they are all happy indoor pets now.  Couple of the kittens needed to be socialized, so I kept them in a large spare bathroom with cat towers/toys/etc. until they finally came around.  It worked better for me if there was only 1 kitten at a time.  If you could catch the kittens once you see them eating solid foods that is when I'd try it.  Or bring in the mommy with kittens & try to socialize all of them at the same time.  That is what I did with the last group but the mommy was fairly friendly with me as she was probably someone's dumped pet. 

Hopefully someone with more experience in dealing with outdoor cats will chime in.
Kat

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Offline Kittyzee

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 04:26:51 AM »
In order to catch a feral cat for spaying/neutering, I use a box trap (like for a racoon) and put food in it.  You may not catch the one you want at first, just keep trying.   :)  Even if the mom cat runs off,  you can pick up the kittens and snuggle them and get them used to human contact.  I would do this even when their eyes aren't open if I could.  They can be tame even if the mom isn't.  The only problem with this is that the mom will move her kittens.  I have gone looking for kittens though and if you are persistent, you'll find them.  I live on a farm though, so it would be different prowling around the neighborhood, peeking into other people's yards.   ::) 

I'd see if I could find a home for a couple of the kittens, especially if 4 is too much, but would consider keeping at least 2.  They have built in play mates and company for each other if you go away.  Cats seems to get along better if they are introduced to each other from the beginning (like these litter mates) instead of later where they are trying for dominance and territory. 

Sometimes you can tame a feral cat (especially if they have been thrown away as a former pet) and they make good pets too.  They just have to learn to trust again.  I don't know why people throw away kittens and think that as a cat, they can fend for themselves.  They can't.  They are babies and have to be taught to catch food, which there usually isn't enough of, so they become prey for larger animals.

Remember, the more you mess with the kittens, the better for everyone.  It was great when my girls were little (of course they aren't much better now that they are grown) they would socialize the kittens to pieces!  Put them in baby carriages, make blanket tents as houses with kittens as children:  kept them occupied for hours!  8)

Good for you Karen, for spaying momma cat and putting her back in familiar territory to live out her life where she's comfortable. 
LuAnn

There are things you do because they feel right & they may make no sense & they may make no money & it may be the real reason we are here:  to love each other & to eat each other's cooking & say it was good.  ~  Brian Andreas 

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Offline karen J

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 08:41:25 AM »
Thanks Kat & Kittyzee. I'll have to brainstorm with Kevin about how and when we can do this. I called animal control this morning, and the gal said we could borrow a trap with 50$ deposit.

The kittens are hard to reach in the window well. Kevin will have to take the window out. Maybe we'll play with the kittens while the mom is distracted by food. The mom is neglecting her hunting duties because of us, so I'm wondering if she'll be able to teach the kittens. The mom may know that the kittens will also have to rely on us.

Should we wait til the mom is done nursing before we get her spayed?
Karen
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Offline annsc_29710

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 09:38:58 AM »
Our vet told us not to let them eat from the mother after she was fixed.

Offline Kittyzee

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 01:26:19 PM »
Do you know approximately how old the kittens are?  Are they eating any solid food yet?  Meaning canned wet food or maybe dampened kitten chow.  Yes, to not spaying until they are done nursing.  BUT--they will try to nurse her even when they are old enough not to.  At around 5 to 6 weeks old they would probably be okay without nursing their mom and eating solid food--and I say this as probably the EARLIEST they should be taken away from her to get her spayed.  Nursing cats can come into heat and get pregnant--the sooner you get her spayed, the better.  Usually at 6 to 8 weeks they are old enough to be ready for their new homes.   :)
LuAnn

There are things you do because they feel right & they may make no sense & they may make no money & it may be the real reason we are here:  to love each other & to eat each other's cooking & say it was good.  ~  Brian Andreas 

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Offline water_sprite

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 04:15:14 PM »
Karen, everyone has giving you great advice.  You can basically tame a kitten up to 12 weeks.  After that, they won't hardly socialize.  The momma kitty will be a different story.  If she truly is feral, you will not be able to tame her.

I belong to an organization that uses the trap, neuter, release program (TRN).  Kittens are sent to me to tame and make them adoptable. 

We have colonies of spay/neuter cats that are feral.  I feed several of these colonies.  Without these feral cats reproducing, the hope is the colonies will die out when the cats get old.

You might check to see if there's an organization that does TRN and they might very well pay to have momma and kittens neutered, especially if you can release the momma and continue to feed her.

Good luck, Brenda
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Offline karen J

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 05:50:00 PM »
Thank you all so much! Believe me, I will be referring to your advice often.

They were born the morning of March 28, and opened their eyes Wed, Apr 7. So that makes them 2 weeks and 4 days old. They are really starting to look adorable and my kids have become "Awwe!" machines.

I will definitely see if there are any TNR organizations by me... that would be great. It was the gal at animal control who told me about the "Spay and Stay", but I also know that there is an extensive network of animal rehabbers around here, I just need to find the right contact.

They're sooo cute. Will try and get some pix tomorrow or Saturday.
Karen
Northern Illinois, zone 5


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Offline Kittyzee

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 07:16:44 PM »
I would LOVE to see pics!!   ;)  I am an "awwww" machine myself, kittens are just adorable....

I just received something in the mail myself about the spay and return thing, I just don't remember which organization it was.  I know if you call around to shelters or rehabbers, they can connect you with the right organization, and it may not cost you anything.   

Water Sprite is right about trying to socialize after they get older, and I'm speaking from years of experience.  The earlier you can get your hands on a kitten, the better pets they make.  I have had feral female cats seek me out only when they are in labor, and let me help them deliver their kittens.  Sounds strange, but it's happened twice with two different mama cats.  I had my hands on those kittens from the start and they were the best cats we ever had.  The mama wants to trust, it's just so hard for her to go against her instincts.  Once they've had their kittens, they try and hide them, but we always found them so we could play with them.  They would see us and come running to play with us--she would have the most exasperated look on her face.  :D 

Good luck and please keep us posted!
LuAnn

There are things you do because they feel right & they may make no sense & they may make no money & it may be the real reason we are here:  to love each other & to eat each other's cooking & say it was good.  ~  Brian Andreas 

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Offline Johns

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 09:47:48 PM »
Feral cats are exotic animals in the US and should never be allowed to roam free, whether neutered or not.  If the kittens can be captured and tamed and fullfill a role as a tame pet cat that is fine, but the adult ferals should be caught and euthanized.  Feral cats do untold damage to our native songbird population and need to be eradicated.  It is totally wrong to catch an adult feral cat, neuter it and then turn it loose to kill and maim native songbirds.   Would any of you cat lovers suppport the idea of catching neutering and the releasing feral dogs?  I didn't think so.  But feral cats wildly outnumber feral dogs and as noted before do considerable damage to native wildlife.  The ASPCA has apparently been taken over by nutcases who want to give "rights" to animals and support the catch neuter release treatment of feral cats. It just boggles the mind why anyone would consider this idiocy.  I have not found anything on their preference on the subject of exotic constrictor snakes in Florida, but rather susect the ASPCA would prefer CNR treatment of them as well.  DUH!  I'm sorry if my opinion on this matter upsets anyone, but if you really love animals, consider the plight of the native songbirds having to becoome lunch for a non-native feral cat that has no natural enemies here.

Note:  Per wikipedia "Conservationists argue that feral cats contribute to the killing of songbirds and endangered birds, with estimates that bird loss is at 100 million a year because of predation."
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 09:53:39 PM by Johns »

Offline Julles

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2010, 01:29:48 AM »
Comment removed, so we of differing opinions can all remain friends.   :hug:
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 07:12:45 AM by Julles »

Offline Kittyzee

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2010, 06:48:33 AM »
Same 'ole, same 'ole.  Someone asks for help and we get opinions.   >:(
LuAnn

There are things you do because they feel right & they may make no sense & they may make no money & it may be the real reason we are here:  to love each other & to eat each other's cooking & say it was good.  ~  Brian Andreas 

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Offline Julles

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 07:10:46 AM »
Hmmm, good point, Kittyzee.

I'm going to pull my comment.

But I still think people should NOT let cats, neutered or otherwise, roam around on other people's property. 

Oh, and I still want to see pics of the babies.    ;)

Offline karen J

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2010, 06:08:22 PM »
Wow, I didn't think my post would well up such strong opinions- but that does happen. Sorry for that.

I didn't get pictures today because of a sleepover, a farmers market, birthday money (kids), and a bunch of other stuff. Plus, every time I looked in on the kitties they were asleep in a bundle of fur. But they are definitely getting bigger. I promise pics tomorrow.

The mother is a non stop eating machine. She's at our door several times a day begging for food. Last night she let me pet her, today she would not. You'd think she would trust me by now- I've been feeding her for a year.

Johns, I understand your opinion but I'm an anthropologist/historian/evolutionist at heart. It doesn't matter if it's feral kittens, Dodo birds, purple Loosestrife, or Kudzu- nothing will change the fact of existence in any particular area at any particular time, caused by humans or not. The whole point of my caring about this is to remove these kittens from the local feral populations and get them adopted as pets.

Edit: They do have a few predators to worry about here, namely coyotes, hawks, raccoons, and Great Horned Owls. And Andy my neighbor's dogs.

I have already turned the mom into a dependent. She has no desire to hunt my songbirds because she gets free food from me. Yes, she takes care of the mice. but that's worth the price. I'm like the government! Here to help...  :)

« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 06:12:34 PM by karen J »
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Offline Johns

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2010, 10:53:44 PM »
karen,

I laud your intentions and the kittens you rescue are much better off than fending for themselves in the wild.  BUT, even the most domesticated house cat will catch a bird if it can, it has no choice in the matter, its brain is just wired that way.  The only domestic house cats I know that don't bother birds are the ones too old and too fat to catch one.  My best friend's cat, Buster, fits this category, but still sits in the window from time to time, imagining he could catch one of the birds outside the window, following their every move intently.  One of my wife's best friends has 7 inside cats and 6 outside ones (The outside ones are feral and are kept in a pen with a top, keeping them in.  She feeds them and takes care of them, but knows they will not become tame)  She would never dream of neutering them and releasing them.  Like you, any kittens that result are socialised and given away.  I have no problem with this procedure, other than it still resulting in more cats that, depending on their owners, may or may not be allowed to roam free. 

BTW, how do you think that cat made it 1,300 miles all the way to Chicago from New Mexico?

Offline karen J

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2010, 09:02:41 AM »

BTW, how do you think that cat made it 1,300 miles all the way to Chicago from New Mexico?


I don't know! Actually, I don't know how, but I think I may know why. Maybe the cat was originally from Chicago and was trying to get home. :thinking: Maybe it was simply chasing a mouse and ended up in the back of a truck.

The domesticated cats are descendants of Asian cats whose diet consists of small animals and birds, so I do understand that they're hard-wired for hunting that prey. I am very much against feeding them cans of wheat, soy, corn, vegetables, and rice mixed with a little tuna...

There is an interesting you-tube video that shows wild cats hunting down a wild boar. They start chowing down on the poor thing before it has 'expired'. Nature is definitely cruel.
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Offline karen J

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Re: Feral Cats = New Kittens!?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2010, 10:34:16 AM »
Here are the pics. First is the mommy (she was born under our deck last spring, so she is one).
http://<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20472935@N03/4531244321/" title="x 005 by karensfrogpond, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4531244321_29807466a9.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="x 005" />[/url]

Kittens-
 http://<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20472935@N03/4531244317/" title="kittens 007 by karensfrogpond, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2452/4531244317_1d8acccf6b.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="kittens 007" />[/url]

Today-

http://<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20472935@N03/4531244309/" title="4_18_10 106 by karensfrogpond, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4531244309_c9950f5bc5.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="4_18_10 106" />[/url]
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 10:53:08 AM by karen J »
Karen
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