Author Topic: We got a thoughtful letter from a wise member today (Read 8625 times)

Vickie · « **Reply #30 on:** June 15, 2010, 08:51:39 AM »

Thank you Sean and Jerry. There are a lot of opinions here about what happened. Some know the whole story some do not. People do disagree. That is okay but name calling and cussing at people is not okay. Yes we all have different opinions on fertilizers and soil and growing lilies. It is not right that some people can say anything they want and get by with it because they are generous, and have much knowledge. We have some people here who have a lot of ponding knowledge also. I have been growing water lilies since 1981. And I am always learning something new . But I might do things differently than some others. That does not make me right or wrong. Sean and Marie Fisher and Frank are three people with a lot of knowledge. And they are helpful too. I want to thank Jerry and Sean for keeping this forum going and putting up will all of us.

Jerry · « **Reply #31 on:** June 15, 2010, 08:54:35 AM »

Joel it should only be that easy. The problem is personal attacks and profane remarks.Disagreeing is just fine. I have dozens of mails from folks that would not post for fear of being attacked.
They would not post on her threads for sure.
A few mails were from folks I'd never have expected to be intimidated.
I love your remarks, but it is not so simple.

matherfish · « **Reply #32 on:** June 15, 2010, 09:02:47 AM »

Esther, Vicki, Jerry, I agree 100%. This is a forum for sharing ideas. No one should be attacked because of a conflicting opinion. Personal attacks serve no purpose. Conflicting opinions give opportunities for people to see different viewpoints and to try different things. What works for one, may not work for someone else. No one should attack someone just to prove that their way is right. If you do not agree, just say so without getting personal. You have then voiced your opinion and can move on. The forum is better because of it.
Thanks, Jerry and Sean for giving everyone the chance to express their knowledge and experience.

Jerry · « **Reply #33 on:** June 15, 2010, 09:15:22 AM »

This thread will peter out eventually. We are leaving it so opinions can be expressed.
A few comments:
99% of our mail is in agreement.
A few who were not backed off when the saw what was said,

My post on John Wooden had a superb parable. Here it is is.

When the The team star Bill Walton was told to cut his hair (Bill was an avid anti war demonstrator). Bill said, "Coach, I have a right to wear my hair the way I want!"
The sage wooden replied, "Yes you do Bill and I have the right to decide who plays on this team!"
"We will miss you Bill."
Bill cut his hair.

tinkster · « **Reply #34 on:** June 15, 2010, 10:11:06 AM »

well I for one would love to know what happened.. I never seem to see anything but would never ask since I would feel like I was questioning what sean and jerry are doing or did which I am not.. I am just nosey to know what happended

tink

HOWELL · « **Reply #35 on:** June 15, 2010, 11:18:28 AM »

Quote from: tinkster on June 15, 2010, 10:11:06 AM

well I for one would love to know what happened.. I never seem to see anything but would never ask since I would feel like I was questioning what sean and jerry are doing or did which I am not.. I am just nosey to know what happended

tink

You can pm me...

...
Thanks y'all if you think I am wiser....

Desertponder · « **Reply #36 on:** June 15, 2010, 12:17:49 PM »

The reality of this world and the people in it is that some are quite opinionated and do not allow others their opinions.

I belong to a lot of forums, ponding, dogs, etc. and this problem is everywhere. People just seem to be really stressed or something. Its not just on forums either, I'm noticing people are being quite difficult in person too.
You think things get ugly here, try hanging out on some of the dog rescue and pit bull forums for awhile.

Not too many of them are even moderated to any extent so if someone posts that someone else is a stupid idiot (or worse), there really isn't anyone that's going to stop them. There are constant arguments over various issues such as chaining, rescuing, weight pulling, etc. The weight pullers, gamers and people who see nothing wrong with dog fighting hate the rescuers and the rescuers hate them right back. On one forum I simply made the statement that I saw no reason to feel sympathy for a known dog fighter (who had been arrested). Holy cow, did I ever take a verbal beating. Others posted and called me everything in the book and a few even PM'd me and threatened me for what I said.
I left that forum because I don't need that kind of BS and I have better and certainly more constructive things to do than put up with that.

So, my point really is that people are never going to see eye to eye but just try to be civil about your differing opinions.

Esther · « **Reply #37 on:** June 15, 2010, 12:29:47 PM »

Wow Shanna. I have to laugh just imagining what you are saying because the two examples you give about dogs are a total dichotomy. Well really it isn't funny. Guess I didn't mean that but can't see how people who abuse dogs could ever get along with people who rescue them.

I once got in trouble here for thinking out loud about getting a kitten. I innocently asked when they should be declawed!!! WHOOEY!! And that was on a pond forum. I got lucky though and kitty doesn't claw the furniture. She must lay on her back and scratches under the couches (the ones I hate) (almost wish she'd wreck them) in the den and under the springs on our bed. We cringe when we think of what a mess there must be under there.

Desertponder · « **Reply #38 on:** June 15, 2010, 04:43:05 PM »

Yeah, declawing is a hot topic.

There is a huge division in rescuing. Particularly with pit bulls. There are several different schools of thought on what is appropriate and responsible pit bull rescuing and the debate between them is often heated over a number of issues. You put all these people together on forums and you have major differences of opinions and fights.

I know it sounds funny and I understand what you were getting at.

You would think people who are all trying to do the same thing, rescue, would get along.

Johns · « **Reply #39 on:** June 15, 2010, 05:14:46 PM »

My public thoughts on the matter:

http://www.gardenendeavors.com/rack/Stranger.html

mascot · « **Reply #40 on:** June 15, 2010, 05:37:23 PM »

Perhaps if people would look at results instead of methods they might be able to accept that sometimes multiple roads can lead to the same destination.

Marie Fisher · « **Reply #41 on:** June 15, 2010, 05:53:29 PM »

Thank you Sean and Jerry for providing us a forum to go and learn and grow in
our water gardening. This is a wonderful forum, and hopefully now there will be
no friction whatsoever. Am sorry it has been so difficult lately for the both of you.

As to fertilizer, let us person use what they chose in their own pond on their own
lilies. I'm not going to try and cram my preferences down anyone's throat, and hopefully
that will all stop now. I'm of the belief, if it works for you use it. I myself prefer a
product designed for water plants, with all the micronutrients in it that our aquatics
need.

It is not fun not to be able to post a picture or say what works for you without
knowing it is inevitable you will be critized. And this "brillant" person to whom we're
all referring has a preformed at home, at her place of employment there are ponds.
This hardly makes her an expert!!! Or even very experienced in my opinion, which
nobody asked for but I stated anyways.

Marie

HOWELL · « **Reply #42 on:** June 15, 2010, 06:06:17 PM »

Marie I do not think it matters if you have a preformed or a huge pond, what matters the most is the heart you put into it, the hours and passion you give it to it...I think that is what ponding is all about...passion because to me ponding is art is like trying to create an environment when there was no such thing...

That is what I love about ponding, besides that I relax a lot while doing it.

Johns · « **Reply #43 on:** June 15, 2010, 06:25:47 PM »

Well, now, some can't seem to stop taking swipes when their foe is down. Like a bunch of chickens pecking away at a crippled hen. But then a wolf in sheeps clothing can't help being a wolf. Its just too much fun to grab a helpless sheep now and then. Someone needs to go back and listen to the song again.

I think the trolls are winning this one. Guess I'll just amble on down the cyberhighway. Life's too short to read any more of this crap.

digger-z8 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 15, 2010, 06:38:50 PM »

An adversary only has as much control over one as one allows.

PondmaninAL · « **Reply #45 on:** June 15, 2010, 06:47:25 PM »

Johns, I'm sorry that you feel that way. If you leave AP, you will be missed.

reddad35 · « **Reply #46 on:** June 15, 2010, 07:13:54 PM »

Quote from: Johns on June 15, 2010, 06:25:47 PM

Well, now, some can't seem to stop taking swipes when their foe is down. Like a bunch of chickens pecking away at a crippled hen. But then a wolf in sheeps clothing can't help being a wolf. Its just too much fun to grab a helpless sheep now and then. Someone needs to go back and listen to the song again.

I think the trolls are winning this one. Guess I'll just amble on down the cyberhighway. Life's too short to read any more of this crap.

Look at it from the other end John. As far as posts I have read from you, the only time it seemed you were ever upset about anything was when you would post something like this quote. As long as I have been visiting this site you have only talked this way when one person was involved. I have visited your website multiple times. I have learned from your great ideas and experience. On this forum I have posted questions and never once have you said I was stupid. Never once have you belittled me. I have never read one of your posts that raised an eyebrow and made me question why you would say something negative about another poster in a rude manner.
It is a fact that many people do not post questions or pics or ideas because of one person. Now that they feel an exhale ability to post on this subject it might lead to an abilty to post on others. This is not a troll.
I do find it terrible that one person would be so powerful to make you too leave. If you move down the highway and meet up with her remind her that it is in the best interest of everyone not to be such a harsh person to those that are not who she decides are worthy of a respectful comment.

reddad35 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 15, 2010, 07:25:42 PM »

I will not talk of this subject again. I hope all works out for all.

Roark · « **Reply #48 on:** June 15, 2010, 07:57:15 PM »

Johns... I'm with you. Rest assured I'll buy you a beer in the afterwards. Life is too short. You and I are just in the way.

Sometimes you gotta heed your moral compass.

Roark

Jerry · « **Reply #49 on:** June 15, 2010, 08:59:35 PM »

We will dump this thread in the morning. Johns is right enough is enough

Sean · « **Reply #50 on:** June 15, 2010, 09:06:32 PM »

I need to ask, why is enough enough Jerry?

I say let all the good folks who have been wronged, have their day in court as well.
We protected and ignored long enough, shouldnt others have the right to speak their minds, I hope you agree with me here...

Jerry · « **Reply #51 on:** June 15, 2010, 09:13:37 PM »

That was my initial feeling and am willing to go along with you. just hate to see more vitriol!

OK let it roll!
Maybe we can find a nice buyer too?

It was a "ride!"

Esther · « **Reply #52 on:** June 15, 2010, 09:22:58 PM »

It's over, let it heal. Grandma used to say, "Misery loves company."

I can see locking the thread maybe. Sometimes when a thread is deleted, everyone is left up in the air without a true picture of the situation later. They may have seen part of the thread and then "boom" it is gone and they wonder what happened. Maybe that causes more difficulty than if it stayed for all to see. Don't know. Here again, we all have differing opinions and thoughts on the matter.

Sean · « **Reply #53 on:** June 15, 2010, 10:03:06 PM »

I still say leave it open a couple more days...
How many hundreds would like to speak up knowing they will not be shut down for once or intimidated not to even post???

S.

Jerry · « **Reply #54 on:** June 15, 2010, 11:17:20 PM »

I know i speak for Sean too. We have "met" some great people here and are grateful for that.
It's sad that a tiny fraction created havoc. I have gotten wonderful letters from "Lurkers" who agree with us too. We will do as Sean suggest and let this thread ride for a few days.
A giant cathartic!
Everything will be OK. Who needs sleep anyway?

Vickie · « **Reply #55 on:** June 16, 2010, 06:38:48 AM »

Helpless , since when has She ever been a helpless sheep. On maybe after she has brought havoc then it is the poor me I am so mistreated? Maybe some of you have never felt her wrath? Maybe she has never belittled you or posted after you that you were not right on growing plants. Well I have had 29 yrs of growing experience. You do not know what goes on in other forms where she is at. Which has nothing to do with here but she attacks people. And no use chewing me out because I have spoke my piece and will not change my mind or post on this topic again. Ask Jerry to tell you what she has done to bring it to this point. I think Sean posted it very clear what was happening.

mascot · « **Reply #56 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:01:31 AM »

How many times do we see someone say or do something and we're offended, but our friend/kid/SO does the same and we cut them some slack? I think that's what has happened here; that some people have blinders on and don't really get the full impact of what harsh words can do to a person when they're directed at someone else. From what I gathered, some pretty harsh words were said that many of us did not see. If people want to get it off their chest, so be it. I think some people deserve to let it out. Look at how many people stay away - or leave altogether - because of what was said to them by someone "popular". They feel like they don't stand a chance.

Personally, I consider Jerry a good friend. But if I post something out of line to Esther (I'll pick on her cuz she's a friend too) then I don't think Jerry should let me get away with it just because we've been to each others' homes. Basically, people shouldn't take advantage of friendships or their popularity/contributions and assume they have immunity from treating others improperly. There's a certain amount of decorum that we should all respect and adhere to when we are on this forum.

Bartman · « **Reply #57 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:11:09 AM »

Let the thread live. Everyone gets a chance to vent then it is done and it can be locked away. This thread is part of the healing process.

Bart

Jerry · « **Reply #58 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:37:21 AM »

We will Bart, we will.
Thanks for your nice mail! You too Michael!

tinkster · « **Reply #59 on:** June 16, 2010, 09:59:30 AM »

Coming from one that always "misses" the threads that are deleted and never really knows what happens, I think there is dangers in that.. by the time it all filters in from various sources, they will all be different.. some slightly and some drastically.And though I know and trust both jerry and sean and what they say to me, there might be newbies or those not so familiar with them that might say what was there they didnt want seen? I am not sure what is wrong with leaving things where people can see for themself what was said and by whom. I am sure I am not the only one that misses almost all of these "threads" and left to wonder and guess or fill in the blanks but then oblivious is pretty nice most the time.

tink