Any idea why the plumbing is under the foundation?

[greenthumbnails]

Does anyone know why the plumbing is under or incased in the foundation of a house?  Our copper plumbing sprung a leak a few months ago and the plumber said that we would have to replumb the entire house and switch to the newer plumbing material (that is not copper).  Only thing is due to the plumbing is under the house and there is no crawl space or basement (in Florida) when they re-plumb they are going to run the pipes through the walls and up into the attic crawl space (cannot stand up there its not a real atic).  This worries me cause if it ever leaks then the ceiling is damaged and it drips down into the rooms. But by being under the house as the current one is, you cannot replace it when its time has come.

Anyone's thoughts on this who might know more on this subject matter?

[Brian]

My house is built on a concrete slab, and the plumbing is under the concrete, not encased in it.  The main reason (I think) for this type of construction is cost.  It is much less than constructing a crawl space.  Not all of my pipes are under the concrete.  The water main comes in to my laundry room, which is also where my water heater is.  Then the hot and cold lines run to the kitchen and both bathrooms.  From those rooms, other fixtures are supplied by the pipes in the walls.  For instance, my ice maker is 'fed' by water from the master bathroom, since they share a common wall and is closer than the kitchen sink.  I'm glad you're in Florida where you have less concern about freezing.  I wouldn't put water lines in the attic here in Indiana for fear of them freezing and bursting.  Happened to my sister on Christmas Day one year.  What a nice 'present' to come home to  .  A coworker had a pipe burst under her slab, and it was several thousand to tear up the slab and repair the pipe and pour concrete to patch.

I wonder if tearing up the concrete where the problem is would be less expensive in the long run.  How old is your house?  The plastic pipe they use now is called PEX.  It is supposed to be able to swell to like twice its diameter before bursting, but seeing how it is installed seems like it wouldn't hold together and be water tight.  They use friction fittings, rather than glue.

Esther may chime in with better information, since her husband Pete is a plumber.

[Esther]

Pete isn't home right now. Will see what he says when he gets back. I know he does underground stuff all the time before a slab is poured but don't know if the pipes are buried in the ground before the cement is poured or not.

[Esther]

OK, he is standing right here and says that states, townships, counties, cities and even inspectors can and do differ in what they require or will allow. Sometimes it makes it really hard for them to do their work. In Michigan, the specs were changed a few years back and some of the older inspectors who know Pete would let him plumb and hardly ever red tag his work. But the younger ones who didn't know him, were more apt to make him use the newer techniques. Or some of the inspectors were power hungry but he knew which ones would give him a hassle.

He says if you want to spend extra money, run it above. It is also easier to fix things in the future when the pipes are run overhead. But also, it may be a more major tear up to run it through the walls and and in the attic. When plumbing is run through the ground, there is the possibility of things settling eventually and something springing a leak. That seldom happens overhead. He said, not knowing exactly what you are experiencing, that his gut would be to tear up the floor and fix the leak and live with what if.

Remember your fixit guy is in it for the money, maybe not your best interest. Did he come well recommended?

How old is your plumbing? How did you discover the leak? Do you have an idea where the leak is? 

[digger-z8]

tear up the floor and fix the leak

Plumbing contractor here, fwiw. Agreeing w/Esther's Pete. My house is built on a slab and that is precisely what I would do. A good plumber should be able to locate the leak...meaning, at least isolate the general vicinity. Still....less expensive than a total re-pipe nine times out of ten.

[greenthumbnails]

Esther- house is from the mid 80's. DH first found the leak when he heard swishing noises coming from the garage washer/dryer area (yeah, ours is in the garage, our style home does not come with a laundry room).  Called the same plumber who was recommended by a co-worker and had fixed something else in our house to DH satisfaction.  The plumber found the leak in one of the pipes behind the washer/dryer area cut out the copper pipe with the leak and showed us where it had rusted over and kinda sealed itself and had it not it woud have been a major leak.  It probably did leak once before as we found a puddle of water coming from under the pantry which is on the other side of the washer/dryer wall but thought that maybe it was the small stand alone freezer we had in the kitchen at the time. 

We had the section of the piping replaced with that newer stuff at that time (maybe a few months ago) and the plumber said that at some point we should replace all the plumbing as it was the same age.  My neighbor had his plumbing replaced maybe a year before ours.  We always seem to have the same water problems as him within a short period of time- his house is maybe one yr older than ours.  Well, the swishing sound has returned again so DH has the plumber coming this week with his crew to repipe- he does not want to mess around patching stuff up again.  DH is always worried about big A/C or water flooding problems.  He does not like surprises at all 

Thanks everyone for posting your thoughts.

[Esther]

You may have soil that is very acidic or something and it attacks the copper. Pete says the pipe is not run in the cement. I don't know why though because it seems to me that it would keep the pipe protected from the fluctuation of the soil and also the acidicness of the soil. Butttt isn't cement acidic too? I think he said that when they go throught the cement with copper they encase it in something. Maybe PVC, what else?? LOL. Copper is getting so expensive now though I don't know if they use it any more. I know when he cuts it out of something here, he doesn't toss it, he keeps it for $$$.

He just came out to go to bed and said they only use it if the customer is insistant on using it and understands what it costs.

[PondmaninAL]

Okay. Your house was probably built before sleeving was required or just wasn't sleeved on purpose. Copper reacts to concrete and eventually starts leaking. Usually, slabs in Florida have sand under the concrete and not gravel. What your plumber is suggesting might be because that if you have one leak, another may form later. It might be years or it may be days. If he is talking of using CPVC, it shouldn't be expensive as far as materials go but how much wall he tears out could be the deciding factor. My dad is a plumber and I learned a lot from him. He would only cut a hole where he would need to tie into the existing plumbing. He would even patch the holes when he finished and try to save you money every way he could. I'm not suggesting him though as he lives here in Alabama. It is hard to find honest plumbers now days because of the economy. My dad is semi retired.

This might not have helped much but it is some information that might be a little helpful.

[RWinn]

my house has the new poly tubing and I hate it, everytime you get a drink from the faucet it tastes like plastic. If I get it from the fridge it doesnt have that taste

[Esther]

RW, is that the Pex stuff?

[PondmaninAL]

Pex was used in RV's first. To me, it's not any better than polybutylene pipe. If you get the pipe redone, suggest they use CPVC. There is less chance of it freezing in central Florida anyhow.

I've noticed that your original question never got answered. The main reason that it is under the foundation is because of the same reason that you fear that they are going to put it in the ceiling now. Water pipe was originally ran with galvanized pipe. I'm sure Esther's husband remember that pipe. It's actually galvanized steel which would rust until it finally bust or leak. Also, it's geometry. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. You can't do that through walls.

[greenthumbnails]

Scott- Thanks for your additional info.  Well, it took 2 full days and the house replumb is done. Turns out they used CPVC (totally greek to me, no clue what it means, but its not copper, and it looks like PVC to me)  Got to see all the holes cut out of the walls both inside the house and outside the house.  They also patched the holes up and looks like they spackled the repaired parts too.  Wasn't here to see them do it, was curious about it though.  It actually looks pretty good. I thought I was going to come home to the pieces of the drywall "glued" back in with sealer and it would look like tile grout at the seams....

They have to come back Monday and patch the holes on the outside of the house too.

[PondmaninAL]

It looks like you had picked a great plumber to do the job. I'm glad that you liked their work. You should have many years of leak-free plumbing now.

[Esther]

Yup that is what Pete said they would do IF they put it in the attic. CPVC is a cream color where PVC is white. The walls of the CPVC is thinner and so can't be used in states where water freezing is a problem.

Today we found another use for 1/2" copper pipe. We have a 10' pattio door with nice oak woodwork. The oak has been up there about 10 years and all along I've fiddled with commercial Velcro and stick on doodads to avoid putting a hole in that expensive stuff. Pete also fusses when I put a hole in the drywall so I avoid that too. Well today I told him I want to put up the new curtains that I bought and why not use pipe of some sort to hang them. This what we did. Well you'll have to wait. The camera is seeing outside where it's bright and the lens closes up so the inside part of the house is real dark in the picture. I'll have to do it later.