Author Topic: Help Please -Goldfish Dying !! (Read 3069 times)

Rick40 · « **on:** August 29, 2010, 08:50:16 AM »

Over the past two weeks my Goldfish have been gradually dying in my pond

. I have probably lost about 25 goldfish.At first quite a few of them were dying. My pond is about 1000 gallons,pump 1250 GPH,and a external Bioe Filter. My pond is about 2 years old. When I first noticed this I did about a 50 % water change because I suspected a ammonia spike. This did not help. Last week I went to my LPS . He suspected that my fish got a parasitic disease Where he suggested I buy a bottle of Quick Cure 4 oz,that contains Malachite. I put half the bottle in at night on two consecutive nights. They were suppose to get more in the next day. It didn't come in . He then suggested I buy ICH-X,4 oz. where I put the whole bottle in on the 3rd night,last Wednesday. Since then I have been still losing goldfish ,about 1 or 2 a day. I am afraid that I am going to lose the rest of my goldfish

. Do you have any suggestions what I should do next ? I haven't been able to make it back to the LPS because I have been busy.

Thank you

Rick

Kittyzee · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2010, 11:15:08 AM »

I see that you went to your pond store after SUSPECTING you had an ammonia spike. You probably should have bought a water test kit so you would know what your water parameters are. I think it strange that the pond store guy didn't tell you that before selling you a bunch of chemicals for sick fish. Have you introduced any new fish into your pond without quarantining them beforehand? Sometimes new fish introduce diseases into an established pond.

Usually, if your water is healthy, your fish are healthy. Bacteria, parasites, etc. have an easier time of killing fish if their immune systems are weakened by bad water quality.

It also sounds like you have a heavy fish load, maybe in all of this heat that we have been having lately, they would benefit from more oxygen. You didn't say if your pond was shaded or in open sun. These are only suggestions to help you figure out your problem. I am so sorry for the loss of your fish. $:-\$

PondmaninAL · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2010, 06:11:31 PM »

Oh LuAnn, you are so smart. I don't think that I could add anything to that. Good job!

Rick40 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2010, 07:27:16 PM »

Thank you everybody. I do have a test kit from Aquarium Pharmasuticals that I use for my aquarium . It is their Freshwater Master Kit. I brought a sample of my water with me when I went to the LPS,but he didn't want to test my water. I know my pond might have a heavy fish load,but with them having babies each of the last two years I hate to get rid of any of them

.

How do you quarantine new fish before adding them to your pond. I think you nailed the culprit. I added two new fish to my pond just before I started to have this problem.

My pond is in the sun,but for its size, it is heavily planted with lily pads. My goldfish stay mostly in the shade of the pads now .

This morning I fed my remaining fish,about 15 of them,and they ate the flake food very good. Soon after they ate the food they went back underneath the lily pads.

What should I do next ?

I probably should have came here first before I went to my LPS.

Rick

Kittyzee · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2010, 08:36:12 PM »

I would probably just buy some medicated food and give them that for a while. I would also up the oxygen or aeration into the water especially while it's still so hot. Remember if you live in a town that has chlorinated water, you'll want to add a dechlorinator when you add city water.

As far as quarantining fish, I've never had to do it--my goldfish have babies too and I've never needed to buy anymore for my pond.

I don't know the size of the fish you bought, but you could put them in a spare tank with your pond water added to acclimate them. Watch them closely to see if they develop sores, swim weird, scales stick out, unusual fish behavior. There are many people here who know more about quarantining than me, hopefully they'll add their 2 cents....

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

Pondman--thanks!!

Rick40 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2010, 08:06:50 AM »

Lu Ann

Thank you. When I went to go check on my fish this morning I found 4 more dead. In fact all the ones that I find dead seem to die at night. I am going to go buy some medicated fish food and a dechlorinator . I think the city water might be he problem too. The last 2 summers I never had any problem adding water straight out of the tap without adding a dechlorinator . Maybe the city changed their water chemistry this year.

Rick

karen J · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2010, 08:19:44 AM »

Rick, you should really test the water. If you have the Aquarium Pharm test kit, use it! It's a fine kit for testing pond water.
Sure, adding fish may have introduced a parasite, but testing the water is step one. Test and post the numbers here.

Rick40 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2010, 10:00:04 AM »

Karen

Thank you . I will test my water,and post the results later here. This morning I brought 3 of my dead goldfish to my LPS to have him look at them. They had black spots on them. He said it was from a parasitic disease. He wants me to buy a medication tomorrow,I forgot the name of it,that will cost me about $25.00. I don't know if I should buy it or not. I am going to buy a dechlorinator however.

Rick

Rick40 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2010, 10:48:31 AM »

OK,here are the results of my tests.

Ammonia 1.0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 1
PH 8.4 My PH has always been high

I know my ammonia is high. How much water should I take out and how much Prime should I add ? Should I add the Prime to the new water before I put it in the pond or after I put in the pond ?

I still have to buy Prime. Can I use the Prime for aquariums or should I order Pond Prime from Dr. Foster and Smith ? The Pond Prime although more expensive than the other one it seems like it would be more cheaper to use overall.

Would aquarium salt also help me ?

Rick

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2010, 11:54:00 AM »

Sorry your fish are dying, Rick. Here's my 2 cents.
Stop feeding the fish if the ammonia is high. (And or get more filtration temporarily - unfortunately I have experienced this but all my overloaded ponds came through well with this treatment)
You put a lot of medicated stuff in the water so the readings on your test may be inaccurate.
There is no way your LPS does not help you by testing your water, it should be the first thing he asks!

I don't know much about sick or diseased fish but if you have new fish from source that you don't know you should quarantine (QT) the new fish. You just need a QT container (big bucket/aquarium) that is the proper size for the amount and size of the fishies and keep a pump or air bubbles to oxygenate the water. Use water from your pond to refill the QT. Keep the fish in there for 30 days while keeping watch on them. If they survive the quarantine

The ponders above all have great advice too! Hope all goes well.

Rick40 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2010, 05:39:16 PM »

Annette

Thank you . How do I go about getting more filtration in my pond ? I only have my 1250 GPH pump and my Bio Filter.

Right now I have my upper waterfall shutoff . I rerouted the tubing to my lower waterfall. I figured if I did this I would have the best possible water volume to circulate through my lower pond,where I keep my goldfish, as possible.Here is a photo of my pond from last year.

Rick

Kittyzee · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2010, 06:04:08 PM »

Nice pond Rick. By your pic, I can't tell how you have your pond set up, and that really doesn't matter, but in my experience, the more water volume you can move (usually the whole pond should circulate through pump and filter in an hour) the better. The amount of water that you have trickling into your goldfish pond may be a little on the low side which is why Annette talked about using a pump with a bubbler or aerator to get more oxygen in the water. She was talking about your QT tank when introducing new fish, but this would help your pond now too. It's too late for a QT now you have already put your new fish into your pond. Unless you have really expensive goldfish, I don't know that I would spend a lot of money in treating them, except for medicated food. Getting your water quality up to snuff would be first on my list. Then everything else would probably correct itself.

When a waterfall drops into the water with a lot of force it creates bubbles in the water (oxygen)which the fish really need in this hot weather. The warmer the water, the less oxygen it has in it.

Sounds like you have a lot of problems going on at once. Don't be disheartened, things will come around and all will be well. Just don't panic, be patient. I know it's hard when you are losing fish. I agree that the #1 problem is your local pond guy didn't give you good advice from the start, but he may just not know.

It's late in the season for this now, but the more plants you can get into your pond via thru a bio-filter, vege filter, or oxygenators such as hornwort and anacharis, top pond coverage like hyacinth, lettuce and lilies, the better it will be for your fish also. Their roots filter out impurities and help improve water quality. You could plan for next spring now as the season winds down--with not a lot of expense.

Oops, I see you said you do have a bio-filter--do you have it shut off temporarily?

Julles · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2010, 04:16:47 AM »

Guys, doesn't oxygen in the water fall at night, and increase during the day? Am I remembering that correctly? Perhaps that is why his fish are dying at night. More aeration sounds like a good idea.

Rick40 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2010, 05:20:38 AM »

Thank you everybody again. I haven't stopped using my Bio Filter. I am going to put a small pump in my pond to see if that give it it more oxygen . I just can't figure out why this would happen this year when I didn't have any problems at all with my pond the previous 2 years. I think next year I am going to tear it down and make it one pond and deeper .Or just go out a buy a bigger pump. This year has been a nightmare with me and my pond.

Rick

Kittyzee · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2010, 05:41:17 AM »

Don't be so hard on yourself, Rick. Sometimes we never know why we lose our fish, it just happens. Or it's a combination of things happening at once. With more experience, these things happen less and less, but when we lose our pets it can be heartbreaking. All of us here have experienced what you are going through and this is a good place to learn and vent your frustration.

Things will get better. I'd bet money on it.

perplexed ponder · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2010, 05:49:02 AM »

We had anchor worm one year. What a mess! We drained the 4000 gallon pond, captured the fish, placed them in a smaller preform, treated for 10 days or whatever it was. We saved most of them, but NEVER AGAIN! Our system is now "closed". We do not buy any new fish.

Rick40 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 31, 2010, 06:37:13 AM »

Thank you I think the problem is my city water. I am going to order a dechlorinator,Pond Prime,from Foster and Smith,add a small pump,and buy some medicated fish food. I went to go check on my pond this morning and found 3 more dead. One was badly decomposed. Here is a pic of one of them. I saw this one moving slowly around in the pond yesterday. I have also noticed 3 bullfrogs in my pond. One is fairly large. Last week I also found a carcass of a insect larvae,dragonfly?, in my pond.

Lu Ann

What brand of medicated fish food do you suggest I buy ? The only one that I saw at Foster and Smith was for aquariums

Rick

Rick40 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2010, 08:39:20 AM »

I just did a Ammonia test on my pond ant it tested out at 2.0. I also did a Ammonia test on my 20 gal. high aquarium to compare the results and it tested out at 0. So I am sure now that it is the water quality of my pond that is causing me troubles. I don't know why my Bio Filter is not taking care of this

. What should I do next ?

I put a small pump in my pond for more aeration.

I ordered a 2 ltr. jug of Pond Prime and a container of Jungle Labs Anti Bacterial Medicated fish food from Foster and Smith. I should have it in 4- 7 days.

Rick

trish · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2010, 09:13:22 AM »

Rick - I'm sorry that you're losing your fish and in my opinion, you need to do a 50% water change stat and make sure you add dechlor when you refill the water you replaced. Even in small amounts chlorinated water will cause internal damage to the fish and will kill the beneficial bacteria in your pond.

Check your local pet stores for either Prime or Ammo-Lock because you need to provide some sort of ammonia protection for your fish and you really can't wait 4-7 days for your order to come in. Either products will convert the ammonia to harmless ammonium for a 48 hour period in which you would need to do another water change. Do not worry about treating your fish with any more medication until you get your ammonia problem resolved. Right now it appears that they are dying from ammonia/nitrite poisoning so that really should be taken care of first.

If your small pump has a fountain attachment, I would use that if you can. Aerate the heck out of it.

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #19 on:** August 31, 2010, 09:56:42 AM »

I was where you are with the water issue this early spring. The local pond experts tested my water and said my fish should be dead or are suffering with the terrible brown water and high ammonia I had. Basically you just need to set up temporarily another bio-filter and pump that will help in the filtration and movement of the water. It'll look unsightly with another box and all the tubing to and from but the fish don't mind. Do a weekly 10% water change and add Amquel+ (recommendation for stabilizing the ammonia). Make sure you help the bacteria grow ( I use the Microbelift pro) because it was obvious my water needed lots of help. It was a wacky 3 weeks before my fishies were breathing right. Plus DO NOT FEED FISH! They will thank you later. I didn't lose a fish although it was very close.

Now Rick, you must understand that this was the problem with my pond. If you experience this same brown water and high ammonia this may fix it for you. Just trying to cover my fishies bee hind.

Good luck!

Rick40 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2010, 11:15:38 AM »

Thank you . I went to my LPS,and bought a 16 oz bottle of Kent Water Gardens Ammonia Detox. I did the math for my size and added one cup to the new water in a large Rubbermaid container and did a 50 % water change. I am running my small pump without a fountain head. I liked the way it aerates the water that way than with. I will do another 50% water change Thursday.

I am keeping my fingers crossed

Rick

Kittyzee · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2010, 01:41:23 PM »

I agree also with what everyone else has said. Your fish do not need you to feed them at all. I only recommended feeding them medicated food to help ward off illnesses once you have stabilized everything. I should have said that. Your water quality is first priority.

My daughter did a large water change in her aquarium not knowing that in doing so as soon as she placed the fish into the water--they all went belly up and died within minutes. It was devastating since her fish were her pets too.

Beautiful, clear water may not be healthy for your fish, even tho' we as ponders think it should be so.

Getting your ammonia levels down to where your fish can breathe is important, and aerate the crap out of your water. You can worry about beautification later.

Rick40 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 02, 2010, 04:49:24 PM »

First of all I want thank you all very much for giving me the great advice that you gave me. I did my 2nd 50 % water change this morning and I haven't found not one dead fish

. I don't know what I would have done without your help. I am still going to run a 2nd pump in my pond from now on. Next year I am also going to still plan on making my pond larger and deeper. Now I have to decide if I should tear down the entire pond or just redo the lower pond. My wife is leaning towards just redoing the lower pond. I know ,of course, that I will probably have to buy ,in addition to a new liner,a larger pump and bio filter.

Thanks again

Rick

Kittyzee · « **Reply #23 on:** September 03, 2010, 05:03:03 AM »

That was some good advice that Trish gave to you. I was wondering how you and your fish were faring! Now you are on the path to achieving your dream pond!

You can take a deep breath and know you did it. Hey, and if you are going to be changing things up--don't forget to post some pics...we LOVE pics!

misstammy · « **Reply #24 on:** September 16, 2010, 07:57:40 AM »

Rick sorry to hear about your fish. Digging them out daily is just an awful experience. I went threw this mid spring. Still don't know what went wrong but all seems fine now. The dead ones looked as if they were bleeding inside.I think I lost 25 or so med goldfish. All babies from offspring. I do believe there were some happy alley cats though. The dead fish always disappeared at night.
I checked the water and all levels okay. I forgot I had ammonia strips and never checked for that. Natures way of thinning the pond? :'( Where in IL do you live. I am near Madison WI. When I saw your pic it looked like a Mid west style. Looks nice!
I did limestone to match out home. The last home was field stone.