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[doubleone]

Hi, My name is Larry.  I have a 1,000 gal pond w/waterfall in central NC:  Greensboro to be exact.  I started building in early spring.  Within 2 months I'm proud to say I had a balanced, healthy pond.  Unfortunately lost about six fish along the way.  Since then I've been obsessed(according to my Wife)with getting the water cristal clear.  I have now achieved that.  I still have many questions.  I've read many articles, books, etc.  Many contridictions are appearant.  The usual systems didn't work for me(plus I'm unemployed and have almost no money), so I designed and built my own.
I'm still puzzled by several things.  I feed my Koi at dawn & dusk.  I wanted tame and docile fish like my neighbor has.  I can put my hand in his pond and they will actually allow me to touch them.  I turn off the airator as a signal that it's feeding time.  They have been conditioned to respond.  Unfortunately they are wild and skiddish.  When I approach the pond they go to the other side and hide under the vegitation.  Forget hand feeding them.  I just removed about fourty unwanted goldfish.  Is this charicteristic behavior for goldfish?  Koi mimic them?  All of my Koi are 2 years or less old.  Does that matter?  The pond is preditor protected and always has been.  Deer have been known to drink from it.  Any ideas?  About 40% of the pond is 4' deep.  They will eventually come up to eat after some time.  Any movement or sound from me will cause them to scatter. 
The last Koi I put in was the same size as the largest.  In two months he? is much bigger.  He eats far more than the rest.  I suspect from this that he is much younger than I thought.
Any thoughts/experiences will be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks, Larry

[Jerry]

Welcome aboard Larry.  You will get many responses.

[SueSTx]

Welcome Larry.

I do not have Koi, so I cannot offer any help with them.  I have several tanks of goldies and each tank behaves diferently.  Some are friendly and will touch me and others are skittish and stay out of sight.

[miguynmkoi]

Welcome Larry!  I have koi in one pond with a few goldies and a shub.  The koi do feed from my hands and even allow me to pet and caress them.  I think it's special.  I feed my fish once a day normally in the morning.  The trick is to get them to trust you. 

Throw pellets (or whatever you feed yours) right in front of where you sit.  If they are shy they will slowly make their way to the food or there will be a brave one who gets all the food. 

Believe me when I say the fish will not starve in your pond.  So if the rest do not get food that's ok.   

The next time you feed them again do this same treatment until they eat the food closer to your hand until they touch your hand looking for food.  Hold some food in your fingers to entice them to eat out of your hand.  Eventually they will suck your fingers until they find food.  There are piggies out there that feel they have to eat!

Good luck!

[skarol98]

OMG is amazing that you got them doing that! Mine will never come any where close to where I'm they are very scare of my shadow (I guess) but I keep trying! they will come really quick get the food and hide and they been like that for the past 2 to 3 months! so no idea! I feed them around the same time and the same way every day!! :'(

[Julles]

Hi Larry!

My fish get skittish when something unusual happens.  Like, when I turn off the waterfall every Sunday morning when I clean the filter and do other maintenance.  They will congregate in the deepest end and try to hide.  I think that when you turn off your bubbler, this may cause the fish to feel insecure, so they hide, instead of come for food.  Try feeding them the same time and place each day, and leave all other factors the same (meaning, leave the bubbler on). 

My koi eat like little piggies, but they don't really eat out of my hands.  I mean, they will, but it's more like they are going crazy for food, and my hand happens to be in the way.  I think that it takes a long time to "tame" them to come to our open hand, and especially to accept your touch.  Be patient, be respectful of them, and keep working consistantly at it.  You will be rewarded. 

They need to feel safe and secure in their home.  If mine are frightened or spooked by something, it will take a few days for them to act normally again. 

Now think back - everything you do to the pond could be eroding the fish's sense of security.  If you just recently netted out goldfish, that could be traumatic to your koi.  If you mess with the filter, get in the pond and scoop out debris, any meddling at all, even if it's beneficial meddling, will spook the fish, and that means a  few days of them getting to feel comfortable again. 

And remember - crystal clear water is not always a sign of a healthy pond.  Fish don't mind brown or green water.  Have you tested your water quality?  Amonia, nitrates, nitrites, pH, salt, etc.?  Perhaps the fish are unsettled becasue they are not 100% comfortable in their water's analysis.

[Indiana Karen]

Hi Larry, welcome to the forum.

I don't really have any help for you.  My fish have always been unbelievably friendly.  When I get in to deadhead my lilies, they practically eat me up!  I can put my hands in the water and they swim into them, I pick them up, drop them back in the water and they come right back for another turn.  They have been this way since day one.  Friends of ours were impressed and put in a pond.  Their fish hid constantly.  They never got them to be friendly.  Eventually, they filled the pond in and gave the fish to us.  They joined in the gang and behaved just like ours.  I'd just spend as much time as possible working around and in the pond and eventually they will surely associate you with food.

Karen

[doubleone]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the responses.  I throw the food close and they stare at it.  Eventually one of them, usually miss piggy, will attack the food and scatter it into the vegitation.  Then they will eat it from underneath, or they will simply wait for it to float away.  Besides conditioning this is the reason I started turning off the bubblers in the first place.  I've tried throwing the food to the other side of the pond and gradually throwing it closer.  When it gets close they stop eating. 
The water quality is good in all respects.  I test it regularly.  I dip the trash at least once a day.  They are used to that and largely ignore it.
Here's another head scratcher.  I gave my four largest goldfish (6-8")to my neighbor. They were put into his Koi pond.  I visited them earlier this afternoon.  They were behaving like his Koi????
I don't get it?
Our Koi are energetic and act normally otherwise. They appear to engage in play at times; or that could be my imagination.   
They are now stressed by the removal of the goldfish.  But they have always been skittish.  Netting approximatly 40 goldfish in a 1,000 gal pond is phisically impossible.  I had to pump the pond down to where they couldn't get away.  This was very stressful to me as well as the fish. 

[Kittyzee]

My fish (all goldfish, no koi) are so used to me dipping the net into the pond to take out trash, that they actually swim INTO the net because they are just so nosey!  This makes cleanup time take much longer as I am always trying to get them to leave the net alone so I can actually do the job.  My goldfish have always been tame--they swim in a 'herd' when they hear the kitchen door open toward the sound.  If they see my shadow on the water, they associate that with food since food usually follows the shadow.  They swim in an out of my hands and let me touch them.   

[Loritx]

I have 2 koi, shubunkins and goldfish- lots of mutts of shub and goldfish.

I had 3 koi at one time but the largest seemed to be the Leader of the pack - I rehomed her and the rest of the fish loved me more! So watch to see if any one fish is sending signals to the others.

They still wont let me touch them, but when they see people now they come to see what is going on!
If they see the food cup, they go nuts!