Author Topic: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)  (Read 3869 times)

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Offline PathwayRev

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New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« on: December 14, 2010, 05:57:56 PM »
It's roughly 6'x8' and 32" deep. The desert ground here is incredibly HARD and digging (read: pickaxing) was a bear. But the finally-finished hole is lined with two layers of 6 mil black plastic. Then I built walls inside of that using 6"x8"x16" cinder blocks, filled with excavated ground. The insides and above-grade portions of the outside were coated with mortar mix and painted with DryLok. I put about an inch of dirt back in the floor to protect the plastic from abrasion.

I've done LOTS of reading on options for filtering. Today I had an email exchange with someone from The Water Garden who suggested I could go without any filter. He suggested, as one option, skipping the goldfish and using chemicals for mosquito control, and a lily-safe algaecide if necessary.

I'm doing this DIY project on a budget and saving the $$$ for a filter/pump system (submersible) sounds very good to me! My design allows for a filtering system (elec. connections nearby and channels for the wiring) so I can add one later if necessary. But is going without one a legitimate option?

Also, I've read hear about the water in a new pond taking time to "cycle." Can someone point me to helpful reading on that topic? Is that something that needs to happen before I put in the lilies? This is "winter" here in Phoenix (normal daytime temps in the low 60's) so blooms are a few months away. Good time or bad time to plant?

Thank you!
Craig
P.S. I've tried to attach a pic. Don't know if it will show up. I used the "attach" function but it doesn't show in the preview. Hmmm.

Offline SueSTx

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 08:14:30 PM »
Pretty pond  o(:-)  Welcome to our madness  {:-P;;

I have four 8' stock tanks with lilies and goldfish without pumps or filters.  I vacuum them regularily and do water changes.  Right now they are clear and I can see the mulm on the bottom.  It is suppose to be 70* tomorrow after having a thin coating of ice yesterday.  Maybe I'll vacuum again.

Summer 2009


Summer 2010


I find myself adding a tank nearly every year.  I've been chasing this addiction for nine summers now.  The first two summers I had a 35 gallon patio preform.

 ;D ;D ;D

Offline WAC

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2010, 05:02:15 PM »
Greetings Craig:

Congrats on getting your pond structure completed.  As with many hobbies, there's more than 1 method to achieve similar goals.  Ultimately a system must be able to find its balance (w/the care-taker's assistance of course).  This balance comes in the combination of plants, fish, waste load all of which boils down to the water quality.

It's possible to get a system going w/o pumps & filtration but there are trade-offs as there would be even w/extensive pumps & filters.  I often refer to a giant urns where a few goldfish, submerged aquatics & a water lily would grow ... the water stayed clear but the system had to be replensihed by partial water changes (manual labor).

All systems can work & it's basically a trade-off of how much labor may be involved in getting it to work.

I'm personally a proponent of both skimming action as well as bottom suction in a water garden.  Water (both outdoors & indoors) act as a magnet for dust, debris, seeds, pollen, leaves, twigs, gum wrappers, etc.  This is esp. the case when outdoors & the collection can create a "skin" effect on the water surface when there's little to no turbulence.  This debris (once waterlogged) will also sink to the bottom.  In systems w/o pumps, etc. this would eventually mean you'd need to have a routine "pond vacuuming" or a full drain & clean-out.

Because of this, even in a small water garden/water feature, I like the benefits of both a skimmer & if not a bottom drain, a solids-handling submersible pump in which all the water would go to an external filter.  The following layout would work well especially in your formal design.

I think having both pump & filtration is especially important in areas prone for high heat, sun & wind factor.

Offline miguynmkoi

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 08:48:39 AM »
Thank you WAC!  Now why didn't I think of that in pond skimmer?!   :clap:

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 06:15:23 PM »
Annette, I made a floating skimmer from two plant baskets.
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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If you think that your question is dumb, imagine how totally stupid you will look if you don't ask it.

Offline WAC

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 06:29:21 PM »
For a pond w/a small foot-print, this style of floating skimmer works as well:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ49cS1li38

It has an 800gph pump built-in w/a 6" skimming weir flap.

Offline tammie

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2010, 08:17:52 AM »
I think you'll have a problem with filtering with a 1" of dirt on the bottom.  Especially if you have the pump on the bottom of the pond. Any type of filter you use is going to get clogged with that dirt - that's what the filter is suppose to do - filter out the dirt in the pond.   I think you should concrete the bottom and thoroseal it.  Then you can do whatever filtering/skimming setup you want.
Tammie


Offline WAC

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2010, 08:30:10 AM »
LOL ... good catch.  I didn't see anything about dirt.  We're so used to keeping our ponds clean, I can't contemplate purposefully throwing dirt in it.   {nono}

Offline PathwayRev

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2010, 10:58:04 AM »
What we have here cannot be described as "dirt" by any definition of the term. "Clay" would be a great compliment. It's the desert, and there's a reason nothing grows here.
If I go with a filter I'll set it up on a block to keep it off the bottom. The risk puncturing the plastic was too high to leave it as the exposed surface. If I have trouble I'll drain it next winter and cement the bottom but I think I'm going to try no filter, no fish and an algaecide if I have a problem with that. A friend here with a similar pond has a very basic pump/filter from Home Depot that's suspended in his pond, and I can always add that, too. My  pond is small enough that a complete draining next winter won't be a big deal if more is req'd.

Unless you are all shaking your heads and thinking, "He's going to be sorry!"
eh?

Offline WAC

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 11:56:39 AM »
It's not a fair assessment, but take a 5 gallon bucket, fill w/water & set it out in the open & see what happens to it in a week or so.  Without any water movement/turnover, a layer of "skin" can develop on the entire top surface which appears like the skin that develops when you warm up milk.

Offline PathwayRev

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 12:24:12 PM »
Understood. Which is why I'm going to make a hand skimmer out of PVC pipe and fabric, similar to a pool skimmer net only finer. I figure once a week or so I'll run that over the surface to get that dust, leaves, scum, etc.

Offline tammie

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 02:10:44 PM »
Hi Craig - I have a bunch of unfiltered "ponds" - they're 10 and 15' intex pools that I raise lilies in.  I do have goldfish in all of them for mosquito control.  The bottom of the pools are really icky... and get completely emptied twice a year.  Just a couple of suggestions, okay? Don't use chemicals to control mosquitos - use guppies or those little fish they call "mosquito fish".  And I don't believe there is any lily safe algicide.  Algea is a plant... if the chemical you're using will kill the algea, it's gonna set back your lilies.  All of my lily ponds have clear water as soon as the lilies grow big enough to shade more then 1/2 the water surface.  One last one, okay?  Please keep a really close eye on those lilies.  If they jump the pot they will root in that dirt on the bottom of your pond and I'd bet the roots could go thru your 6ml plastic.
Tammie


Offline PathwayRev

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 02:56:58 PM »
Tammie - thanks for the helpful advice. Question: my pond is 32" deep, so I planned on setting the pots on PVC platforms I'll make to have them at about 24" below the surface. Will the roots, if they jump the pots, reach down to the dirt? If they do get out of the pot can I just trim them back w/o damage to the lilies?

Offline tranquility

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 12:36:04 PM »
I use 8' pop up pools to grow lilies in--no filtration or pumps and the mosquito fish live quite happily in there all year long...So instead of chemicals or goldfish--I too would go with mosquito fish...
Lawanna
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Offline tammie

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 01:42:21 PM »
Hi Craig - Yep, them lilies roots would grow down that far.  But!  If your lily jumps the pot it's time to repot.  You can cut off the new lilies and either repot those (as well as the original lily) or you can share your "extra" lilies!  Here's a short story about me and hardy lilies - I started with ONE Joey Tomocik hardy lily.  Within 3 years I had either sold or gave away over 200 lilies!  I don't think you'll have that many, I live in Hawaii and that darn lily was very happy..
Tammie


Offline Pond Boy

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Re: New lily pond, ready for fill? (newbie)
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2011, 08:16:32 AM »
I would go with the no filter as well. Just provide some circulation put in a few gold or mosquito fish. I am of the camp that believes filters compete with the plant life for nutrients/oxygen in the water column they release nitrates back into it as well cloud the water cause mad PH swings.. And cause a host of other problems I do like skimmers but that is as far as it goes.

Now I am not saying that mechanical filtering dose not have a place in the ponding world it certainly has a roll to play to help us achieve the common goal quality water. As soon as one reaches a balance in the pond they are no longer needed..IMO
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 08:21:54 AM by Pond Boy »

 

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