Author Topic: Building new pond, would like some help. (Read 7894 times)

Mucky_Waters · « **on:** June 04, 2011, 11:34:39 PM »

Haven't had much to do with ponds or water gardens since we moved about 3 years ago and bought an old house and have been renovating it. This spring we are finally getting to the point where we will be building a new pond in a courtyard area I'm in the middle of building.
The pond we built at the last house we really enjoyed, however I'm starting fresh and would like to make this pond a little bigger and more efficient as regards to maintenance and the overall design layout. In line with that I have a few questions I hope I can have discussed and answered by the good folks in this forum.
First question I have is; what would be the maximum allowable size (volume) for a pond with a 4200 GPH and a 3" bottom drain?

Tadpole · « **Reply #1 on:** June 05, 2011, 07:36:44 AM »

Ideally, 8400 gallons or less, depending on projected fish load.

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #2 on:** June 05, 2011, 08:55:15 AM »

Thanks Tadpole
I have yet to set the size of my pond yet, but so far it's looking like it will be around 3,000 gals so I guess I'm pretty safe even if I go a little bigger.

We are incorporating the pond into a sort of raised stage area of a courtyard and we're still some time away from filling the pond, but I need to know how big to make the hole. From your 8400 gal calculation I guess I could fill the entire 22 ft X 10 ft stage area with water and still be ok.

Tadpole · « **Reply #3 on:** June 05, 2011, 01:26:37 PM »

Looks to be interesting.
What arrangements have you made for filtration (bio-conversion)?

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #4 on:** June 05, 2011, 10:52:35 PM »

Not totally sure yet, but I think I'm going to set up something like what I was on one of the members of this forum web site http://www.gardenendeavors.com/rack/web8.html
My plan is to build a pumphouse, on the outside of the court yard next to the pond, to house the filteration system.

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2011, 01:27:41 PM »

In your photo, is the pond location where the young man is digging? Where in Canada are you?

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #6 on:** June 07, 2011, 07:39:11 AM »

Hi Annette
The area where my wife and son are working will be the main function area of the court yard, and the pond will be in the boxed in area to the right where you can see a raised dirt pile sticking up. The pump house will be in the next section in the bottom right corner.
The post you see sticking up will have walls built between them and will be stuccoed in a adobe style. The two post you see in the foreground will be the doorway leading into the court yard. The pond section and surrounding ground and landscaping will be raised about 18" above the level of the function area of the court yard. The pump house floor level will be sunken below grade.
Right now we are working on moving all the soil around to get the proper ground levels. It's all getting done with hand shovels and wheelbarrels, so it's a ton (actually tons) of work. The whole area use to be covered in ashpalt, the picture shows my wife and son working on breaking up the last of it and filling it into the pond area where it is getting disposed of by getting burried.
I'll be a happy man when I can finally get down to building the actual pond.

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:16:11 PM »

Opps.

I did see the pile of dirt in the box wall area and thought you were filling to elevate the area. How deep will your pond be and will there be a liner or concrete?

Quote

I'll be a happy man when I can finally get down to building the actual pond.

Busy family! The reward is a beautiful pond!

PondmaninAL · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2011, 07:42:59 PM »

Well, long time since seeing you, my friend. I can't wait to see the finished pond. The old one looked great. I'm now in Alabama.

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:25:31 AM »

Quote from: miguynmkoi on June 07, 2011, 05:16:11 PM

Opps. I did see the pile of dirt in the box wall area and thought you were filling to elevate the area. How deep will your pond be and will there be a liner or concrete?
Quote
I'll be a happy man when I can finally get down to building the actual pond.
Busy family! The reward is a beautiful pond!

Actually we are putting some more fill in the pond area, but that pile is from the excavating around the footings. We have been back filling around the walls with the broken asphalt to get rid of it, now that it's all buried we are starting to fill and level the areas with the piles of soil we had to dig up to get the walls in. The hole for the pond will be at least 4 ft deep, probably closer to 5 ft at the bottom drain. I will be using a liner this time. Last pond I made with concrete and although it worked out fine, I didn't like the fact that you can't make (minor or major) changes easily like you can with a liner. And since making that last pond I have learned a lot more about pond design and liners than I knew before . The concrete walls you see in the picture are basically just there to support the support the walls I will be building, and support the raised area where the soil and pond will be. We have a cluttered and unattractive backyard, but the mountain views surrounding us are spectacular. By building tall courtyard walls and blocking out the view of the clutter, all you'll see from inside the courtyard is the pond area and the mountains, I hope to create a bit of a private sanctuary.
Here's a couple picture galleries of our old pond. http://southokanagan.biz/MuckysPond/ --- http://southokanagan.biz/muckyspond2005/

Oh, and I forgot to answer your other question,,,,, I live in Southern BC, near the little city of Keremeos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keremeos,_British_Columbia

Quote from: PondmaninAL on June 07, 2011, 07:42:59 PM

Well, long time since seeing you, my friend. I can't wait to see the finished pond. The old one looked great. I'm now in Alabama.

Hi Scott, yep it's been a while since the old days of GW, nice to hear from you. This new pond has been long overdue, but I hope to have water in it by the end of the summer. We'll probably be bumping into each other more often now as I get closer to the pond build.

Randy

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2011, 10:34:29 AM »

A view from above with general layout.

Jerry · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2011, 11:06:25 PM »

Thanks for the heads up Scott. Sean must have zapped her, it, whatever it is!

Mike S. · « **Reply #12 on:** June 15, 2011, 06:31:29 PM »

One thing I see that makes a little nervous is the roof line looking like it will dump right into the pond. Maybe a gutter to divert the flow? Large amount of rain water can play havoc with your water chemistry, especially if your area is subject to acid rain.

Other than that, looks like one heck of a project and one that's looking good!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

Tadpole · « **Reply #13 on:** June 15, 2011, 06:35:14 PM »

From what I have read lately, all rain is now acid. Ph of 5.3 - 5.5. Need to collect some next time it rains and test it.

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2011, 07:27:58 AM »

Thanks for the response and warning Mike, I certainly will be installing a rain gutter. In fact, while I had the area excavated I also made provision for underground drainage for rain water, not only for the roof you see in the picture but for one side of the roof of my house. I buried two lengths of drainage pipe, and the broken chunks of asphalt, we had to get rid of anyway, make for great drainage rock.
I also doubled up on the rafters on the roof that overhangs the pond. Normally I use to push the snow off that roof if it started to build up too much, but all the snow would fall right where the pond will be, so I plan to install a snow dam at the bottom edge of that roof. Of course the dam will cause the snow to accumulate more, so that’s why I doubled up on the rafters.
Our rain clouds come pretty much straight off the Pacific Ocean and don’t have a chance to pass through much industrial areas, so the rain is probably as pure as it is anywhere on the Earth, however I did do some of my own testing over 20 years ago and found the rain to be far too acid to use in my aquariums, so I am aware of the problems of acid (low ph) rain could have on fish.

Mike S. · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2011, 01:05:40 PM »

There is always free advice available on the Internet. And you certainly get what you pay for!

Sounds like you are doing a fine job looking ahead and paying attention to where the Devil hides. (In the details, of course.) Good on ya!

What does get overlooked is the simple fact that very often, the best advice is local advice. The need to avoid excessive rain water in the pond is more-or-less universal when it comes to Koi ponds. Ponds primarily for waterlilies, not so much. But dealing with snow on the roof? I live in Florida. So that's something I don't normally consider and would not take it into consideration. Groundwater being a problem? Yes, I've seen it once in a while, but in my area, the norm is to see water 6 inches deep in the yard during a downpour, and within 15 minutes of the rain stopping, it vanishes completely. Very high perculation rate. Need sand for concrete work? Dig down 2 feet and there's an endless supply of very fine "sugar sand."

Local advice can save you a lot of trouble, outside advice can help you with seeing things that you might be too close to you.

Looking forward to watching your progress!

Mike S. (Expert at nothing, student of just about everything.)
Spring Hill, FL

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2011, 06:04:41 AM »

Well between work and dealing with a blue screening computer I managed to upload a few progress pictures of the ongoing project. Even got the gutter up Mike

Still a long ways from getting water in the pond though

These pictures should give a better idea of what it will look like when it's done.

Mike S. · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2011, 06:15:46 AM »

I see what you mean about how happy you 'll be when you finally get to building the pond itself! Wow! That's a whole LOT of work going on there!

You know how to work a theme, too. Very imaginative. Su casa looking muey bueno! (Pardon my atrocious spelling.)

What I'm trying to say is what you are doing is major undertaking and you are doing a great job of it. Nice!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2011, 12:57:19 PM »

Thanks Mike
you know, I'm a stucco contractor by trade, and after stuccoing countless adobe style walls for many other people, and admiring how they looked when they were finished, I'm finally getting around to doing some for my own place.
It's not really much imagination on my part, just trying to copy things I've worked on before that worked, and avoid the things that didn't work so well.
You're right about it being a lot of work though, the worst part has been all the digging and moving all that soil around, it's all been done by hand too. I think we could have dug several dozen ponds by now, and yet, as it stands, I still haven't got the one dug out properly yet. It's a good thing I have two teenage boys, who aren't afraid of a little (or a lot of) hard work, to help, otherwise this project wouldn't be possible on my own.
I'd like to get the courtyard area usable for this summer, but if I get water in the pond before winter I think I'll be doing really good.

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2011, 01:10:20 PM »

OK, you didn't mention anywhere that you were building a fortress for your pond!

Great work and design! Can't wait to see more! Get to work!

Kittyzee · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:22:41 PM »

Wow, now that wall is gorgeous! Glad I don't have to pay for it....

Can't wait to see more pics as work progresses!

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2011, 07:45:52 AM »

Thanks ladies
Not much progress lately, my day job keeps getting in my way and I've been waiting for some wood to get milled for the doors and stuff. I did manage to get some glass blocks installed in the those openings you see in the walls. For my "fortress", you see, will be like Superman's, a fortress of solitude. I'm building it so it will be very private, no one can see in or just walk in unless they come through the house first, the outside courtyard doors will be lockable from the inside. Nothin better than hanging out by the pond in your skivvies.

Also I want to keep it sealed up tight to keep out all the neighborhood cats and racoons and such, and keep my pond critters I plan to stock, like frogs and turtles, from wandering off.

Mucky

Jerry · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:02:49 AM »

Thanks to Kitty Zee and Mike S. for reporting that spam post. It is now gone. The scammer has been banned.

Kittyzee · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:34:21 AM »

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2011, 07:57:08 PM »

Hmmmm?
That's two spam posts in my only thread in years. Do you get a that much spam in this forum? or am I just getting picked on? :'(

minnowman · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2011, 04:19:43 PM »

That's a fine looking wall. It could have been in the 'Lord of the Rings' movies if you'd have built it sooner.

PondmaninAL · « **Reply #26 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:37:37 PM »

Calm down, Mucky, they hit one of my posts before.

Kittyzee · « **Reply #27 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:17:24 PM »

They probably just picked a thread with a lot of replies and would know that someone would see it that way. We try and look out for each other here and we don't need no stinkin' spammers!

Mucky_Waters · « **Reply #28 on:** September 30, 2011, 12:55:34 AM »

update....
Finally got the courtyard area done enough to start working on the pond stuff, and I ordered my liner today.

here are some pictures

cutting the holes and installing bulkheads in the tanks

the pump house where the tanks will go

The filter tanks in place

and the latest picture of the courtyard

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #29 on:** October 11, 2011, 05:15:04 PM »

You do very nice work! Looks great! You certainly did a lot of designing and planning.

I'm guessing the liner will cover the exposed area in the pond. How will you get the liner to stay up in the back and side walls?