Bagdad photo and question.

[magoo]

I have grown 'Bagdad' for 10 years. It's was hybridized by George H. Pring in 1941. One of my favorites. It's listed as being viviparous. My 'Bagdad' has never produced a plantlet viviparously. It's pads grow the distinctive horn at the top of the petiole but no plantlets. Has any one had a 'Bagdad' produce plantlets viviparously?

[Marie Fisher]

Yes, Dan, it is highly vip. 

Marie

[greenthumbnails]

Have you tried cutting off a pad or two and floating it in a bucket? I did that with some Panama Pacific and Queen of Siam pads I received from another forum member and they both produced plantlets. But, the QOS plant itself that grew does not produce vivip plants or the "horn" on the pads. I am thinking it is some kind of starvation survival thing.  I had the pads floating verticalliy partially submerged in water in large freezer bags that were then placed vertically in the pail. They were very large pads. I think I did this because I wanted to keep the QOS seperate from the pads of Panama pacific as I did not know which was which yet.  Anyways, worth a shot.

[magoo]

Not one plantlet from a very viviparous lily in ten years is strange. My 'Bagdad' was purchased from Springtime Nursery so I'm pretty sure it's a 'Bagdad'. Other than not producing vips,  my plant meets Mr. Slocum's description of  'Bagdad'.  All the other vip's I grown have at least produced the fuzzy node that indicates the potential for a plantlet. Mature, late season 'Bagdad' pads just form the 'horn' for me. No plantlets. Depending upon the year (sun cycle, amount of uv radiation, Mother Nature's whim or whatever),  vip production for me has ranged from prolific to nonexistent. Maybe it's just my 'Bagdad'. I do not have the need to force a vip from 'Bagdad'. It's one of my favorite lilies whether it makes plantlets or not. It is in a more shaded area of my pond. That may be a factor.  I guess I need to get a 'Bagdad' from another source and see if it grows differently. If any one has photos of 'Bagdad', please post them.

I am presently forcing several Mde Ganna Walenski pads in a heated tank under lights. The plants are close to the surface of the tank and should produce root in the next day or two. 

Dan McGehee
Ponchatoula, La

[Kat]

I had Bagdad many years ago & don't recall getting any viviparous starts from the pads.  One thing you may want to try is to give it lots of fertilizer to make the pads bigger.  My Lindsey Woods wasn't producing any vivips, but now that I'm giving it a heavy dose of Osmocote I'm getting fuzzies. 

[magoo]

All received a dose of Oz 15-15-15 about a week ago. 'Bagdad' has produced a couple of new plants from tubers every year so I do not care if it produces vivip's. I saw one of Frank's photos of 'Bagdad' with vivips on every pad. Just curious about how this lily performs elsewhere. Thanks for the info. I would like to replace the 'Lindsey Woods' I lost a couple of years ago when I let the growth tip of the lily grow away from the soil and I did not repot before winter. The only other vivip I would like is 'Tropic Sunset' but that's for later.

[jclements]

Dan,

I like what Encyclopedia of the Waterlily (Masters, 1974, p. 453) has to say about Bagdad and have included it below:

Flowers of this hybrid are a wisteria blue, broad and flat, gold centered with yellow stamens, and petioles just long enough to hold them aove the floating leaves. Leaves are of a medium size, light green above with blotches of red and brown, and dark green beneath with purple stripes. George H. Pring, in 1941, described the hybrid this way:  "The combination of leaf and flower gives it a rich effect, something like that of a Persian rug." from this feeling, the name bagdad was selected. It is a good propagator and strongly viviparous.

Considering the vintage of this lily, I personally would have a hard time accepting a plant as genuine. It would have to come from someone with some serious "cred" for me to call it Bagdad. I have purchased my share of lilies from various places that drop shipped from reputable mass producers only to receive what were probably seedlings. Then again, I've had a truly named plant that I know came direct from the hybridizer that performed oddly for just me. Perhaps some DNA testing is in order?

[jclements]

I just wanted to clarify that I have no doubt in Dan's "cred"....but have personal experience with his source for this lily. I purchased Leopardess (I believe twice from them) many years ago and it was drop shipped from a large grower in very south Florida. Anyway, it was most certainly not Leopardess and Sandy at Springtime was very gracious to replace the plants. She was great with the situation, but that's when I learned my lesson on classic lilies.

[magoo]

Part of the reason I started the thread is that I began to question whether my lily is truly named. I called it 'Bagdad' because I bought it from what I thought was a reliable vendor.  I bought this lily when Spring Time was one of the few sellers of waterlilies on the internet. I received Bagdad? in the same shipment as a Lepordess? (I know isn't accurate)  and Persian Lilac (was a night bloomer.).  At the time I had no reference to compare. I should of known that this lily was not Bagdad. I have Perry's book(1st edition). Before the Truely Named program came along trades were as often as not were misidentified. I also have a 'Pamela?' I question that may have come from there. Should I question all my purchases for them? Ever one , if you believe I have misidentified a lily please speak up. You will NOT offend me. Accuracy is most important.  Now , Where do I find truly named 'Bagdad', 'Leopardess' and  'Pamela' ?

[greenthumbnails]

 Dan, maybe you can check with Enzo's Utopia Aquatic for those lilies? He is with the "Truly Named" Program.

[jclements]

I do not have the expertise to say if it's truly named or not, but would have 110% faith in Craig for identification purposes and as a source.

[jclements]

Agree with GT. I believe Enzo purchases much of his stock from Craig.

[magoo]

Utopia does not have Bagdad listed as available.

 I have a question about petal counts in truely named waterlilys. How much variation in petal count can occur between flowers on the same plant and between different plants of the same hybrid? I know that the petal count on the first few flowers on a plant can be less than the standard petal count for a hybrid.  To use 'Bagdad' specifically, Mr Slocum stated that the petal count varies for 30-32. So can a flower that has 20-24 petals be a 'Bagdad'? Most probably the answer is no. The plant I have has about that many petals.   

 I did a Internet search for 'Bagdad', I guess what I found was to be expected. I used Mr Slocum's photo and description as a reference point for color and petal count and best guess petal count from the available photos on the web pages. I used the first ten web  pages with photos of Bagdad. Six appear to be sellers. 2 hobbyist photographers, two plant information sites.

The only one that is Bagdad is a hobbyist's photo from the Missouri Botanical Garden.  One seller has what may be the true Bagdad. Petal count is correct. The colors differ from Mr Slocum's and MBG's. The rest had petal counts ranging between 20 and 25. Thus my question above. I will not name names to protect the guilty. How do you say buyer beware. One of the fauxBagdads was for sale for fifty bucks.
 
 

[Kat]

I don't recall the provenance of my Bagdad (so maybe I had a knockoff or maybe the real one) but here is a picture.  I didn't keep as I found other blue tropicals more to my liking.  My Bagdad needed shallow water otherwise it would bloom under water & the blooms tended to wilt.

[greenthumbnails]

I did not realize this lily was so hard to find. Nice pic Kat 

[magoo]

Kat , your photo is very similiar to my 'Bagdad'. My camera tend to lighten petal colors from what they are. Mr Slocum in "Water Gardening' list 'Bagdad' as having 30-32 petals.

Has any one bought from American Aquatic Gardens? The photo they have appears to to be the real Bagdad and at a very reasonable price.

Here is link to a photo from Missouri Botanical Gardens

My photo from last year



Photo from Missouri botanical Gardens