Lily Pond build advise

[fishin4cars]

 I'm not new to pond keeping,(15 years+ at pond keeping and 30+years at keeping fish. Presently have multiple ponds including the largest 2500 gallon water garden with Koi. I recently visited a fellow members pond (Magoo) that raises water lilies only.  After Our visit I have been considering building a lily pond with no or very limited filtration. the wife is agreeing with this build!  
Here are the questions I have.
1- What would water lily experts say is the optimal depth for a water lily pond? (I'm thinking 18"-24")  Information that may be helpful, I do live in Zone9 South Louisiana, water temps can reach close to or over 90 degrees F in the summer, May get light ice in the winter but never solid freeze. Primary interest is Night blooming and day blooming tropicals.
2- Liner color - I will be swapping out my swimming pool liner in the near future. Does anyone see any issues with using a light colored liner over a dark/black liner?  I don't care if the algae shows on the liner. I'm more concerned with exsessive algae growth that may harm the lily's and if the light color will increase water Temps. or other issues I may not be aware of.  also curious if cleaned well does anyone see a problem with prior chemical use on the pond liner for this type of Lily pond?
3-  o(Fish choices for mosquito control. I DO NOT want to use Gambusia/mosquito fish. I have a HATERED for this fish and do not want them in my yard at all again! I would rather not use Goldfish either as we have issues with Herons and Owls attacking the pond and I would like not to have to keep a wire net on this pond.  I would like something that can stay year round, has enough color to be noticeable but not so much as it attracts predator birds, (ideas I have used or do use, sailfin Mollies, Rosy barbs, and am thinking about trying bluefin killie fish or elders guppies)  I would like to hear other suggestions on fish choices that would benefit in mosquito control but would not harm the lily's.
4- stocking level for fish  Any suggestions on this?
5- water circulation- I saw there was complete still water in the pond I visited. Would a airstone benefit the pond or would it best be kept still water.
6-Input on the pond, should it be all above ground, partially above partially in ground?    I do NOT want to move the lily's out to winter over but can make a deep spot in the pond to drop them down in if it is felt necessary.
7-Does anyone say any harm in top offs with pond water from my existing Koi pond during water changes? Or should I top off with city water?

I do not know how large this pond will be at this point. My thinking is minimal 4' wide, aprox. 12'-16' long and going as wide as 8' in the center area.
The pond will end up somewhat triangular in shape with the points cut off so that minimal size would be at least 4" for the lily leaves to spread out. Probably in the area of 1200-1600 gallons if made 2' deep.
I would make this square but I'm trying to leave enough room to be able to make a pass with the lawn mower between this pond and a 5 year old pomegranate tree that I do not wish to move.
 
I appreciate any input or ideas, at this point just a consideration.   LOL You know how it is, once you have one pond you keep wanting to add to it!

[HTH]

If the lilies are confined to soil filled pots use the tap to fill/refill.  If you are allowing the lily roots into the water use the koi water.

I am using a lily pond shallow enough for the plants to rest on the bottom and easily reach the surface in the spring.   I only move them to divide.  You only need a few inches above the pot for ice in your area.   I do not think that setting your pond a foot out of the ground will have a noticeable effect on the ice thickness. My pond is 18 or 20 inches deep.  If you go deeper just lower the level in the spring.  Raise it a few inches a day and the lilies will follow it up.

I think you question about stocking levels might be better put at what level to start off to ensure there are no misquotes.   Not sure.

The light colored liner should have no noticeable effect on the water temperature.   I think the water absorbs most of the UV light/heat from the sun in the first few inches.     I think it would be interesting to see a pond with such a liner.  The visible light will be reflected by the liner for increased lighting.

I have a raging fountain of water generated by an air blower.  The lilies do fine about 6 feet from it.   I do not like the idea of stagnant water.  Keep it moving but keep it gentle.

HTH and HTH

[fishin4cars]

If the lilies are confined to soil filled pots use the tap to fill/refill.  If you are allowing the lily roots into the water use the koi water.

I am using a lily pond shallow enough for the plants to rest on the bottom and easily reach the surface in the spring.   I only move them to divide.  You only need a few inches above the pot for ice in your area.   I do not think that setting your pond a foot out of the ground will have a noticeable effect on the ice thickness. My pond is 18 or 20 inches deep.  If you go deeper just lower the level in the spring.  Raise it a few inches a day and the lilies will follow it up.

I think you question about stocking levels might be better put at what level to start off to ensure there are no misquotes.   Not sure.

The light colored liner should have no noticeable effect on the water temperature.   I think the water absorbs most of the UV light/heat from the sun in the first few inches.     I think it would be interesting to see a pond with such a liner.  The visible light will be reflected by the liner for increased lighting.

I have a raging fountain of water generated by an air blower.  The lilies do fine about 6 feet from it.   I do not like the idea of stagnant water.  Keep it moving but keep it gentle.

HTH and HTH



the lilies will be in pots, bare bottom liner
   The pond that my best lily's are growing in is 32" deep but I have the pot's lifted to about 8" under the water surface, the other pond the pots  are about 4" under the surface and seem to be spreading out further than the ones that are planted deeper. that's why I wanted to try and find out a optimal depth for most tropicals.   Freezing I'm not worried about, I winter the ones I have now over but I have been dropping them down to the 32" depth of the big pond during winter.
  stocking level I'm trying to figure out a base line # of fish to get a balance for the plants and still control skeeters.    LOL, Keep in mind I've always kept well stocked ponds with large Bio-filters, this is a little new to me as far as doing it right. I've done filter less ponds before but not on this scale, most I have done were just small containers of 30-40 gallons.
   my big pond now has 5 tropical water lilies in it that are all blooming and growing well in water that is being turned over at a rate of 2.5 times a hour, (pretty strong current throughout the pond and doing well) I was looking at Maggo's lily pond and they are 100% still water.   Again, I want to try this but want to do it right to get that equal balance between plants, fish, and snails.

[PondmaninAL]

Larkin, what not use Rosy Red Minnows? They are small, egg layers, and are orange/red.

[fishin4cars]

No, I thought about them, but I don't want anything that might attract any predator birds.  I still have my butterfly koi and that's the pride and joys of the yard! I'm placing this right behind the bedroom. With a big flashing sign that says warning owner shoots!   LOL  I'm a little concerned about the frogs though, we already sleep with ear plugs for the pug!
      ???? How did you know my name???

[frogman3]

Rosy Reds do not get very big so I doubt a heron would bother with them.
My main pond 16 x 19 x 3.5  has a tan colored liner and if anything it takes longer to warm than my black EPDM liner ponds. Algae still grows in both of course.

[PondmaninAL]

No, I thought about them, but I don't want anything that might attract any predator birds.  I still have my butterfly koi and that's the pride and joys of the yard! I'm placing this right behind the bedroom. With a big flashing sign that says warning owner shoots!   LOL  I'm a little concerned about the frogs though, we already sleep with ear plugs for the pug!
      ???? How did you know my name???

Larkin, I'm PondmaninFL in the chat room. We spoke the other night.

If not Rosey Reds, how about Shiners. You can buy them at a bait store.

[fishin4cars]

No, I thought about them, but I don't want anything that might attract any predator birds.  I still have my butterfly koi and that's the pride and joys of the yard! I'm placing this right behind the bedroom. With a big flashing sign that says warning owner shoots!   LOL  I'm a little concerned about the frogs though, we already sleep with ear plugs for the pug!
      ???? How did you know my name???

Larkin, I'm PondmaninFL in the chat room. We spoke the other night.

If not Rosey Reds, how about Shiners. You can buy them at a bait store.

Ahhh, Sorry about that!       No shiners,  I do want something of intrest to watch.  I'm looking for something that would be neat to see have little ones in the pond.  I tend to like fish that no two are alike or have a neat appearance from above. As for the rosy reds, Not much to them and I've had them before.  I'll probably end up with some type of live bearer or killie fish.

[minnowman]

 If you haven't built & stocked your new pond yet, you might consider Paradise Gouramis. One of my neighbors keeps them in outdoor tanks in Thibodaux. She gave me a few.They are small[ a few inches long] and not too flashy ,but nice to look at. Don't use Sailfin Mollies. They will overpopulate! I have to trap them to thin them out. Still ponds work out just fine, but if it is deep, the water at the bottom will be slow to warm up in the Spring.

[fishin4cars]

  Thanks, Great idea!  I hadn't thought about them but they would be perfect! I know there are a few hybrid colors of them once in a while too.  I have been using sailfin lyretail mollies for some time now, yea they over populate some but not as bad a Gambusia and I can always trade them and the rosey barbs back to the local petshop for fish food or declorinator.