Author Topic: Started up the falls, but..... (Read 2930 times)

perplexed ponder · « **on:** July 01, 2011, 10:41:22 AM »

$:-\$ Of course it leaks. Now the agonizing wait for it al to dry out so we can add more foam. Will try to post a picture when it's going long enough!

perplexed ponder · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2011, 04:04:38 AM »

Foamed and foamed and foamed some more. Let it dry all night. STILL LEAKS like crazy on one spot. It's like a faucet pouring out. Trying again today.

Esther · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2011, 05:07:40 AM »

Can you shove something in to help fill the hole first and then foam over it. At least you know where the leak is. I have a small one but am not willing to tear things apart to find it.

Tadpole · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2011, 09:16:50 AM »

Foam is not a waterproofing product. Are you able to adjust the edge of the liner where the leak is located?

perplexed ponder · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2011, 04:15:10 AM »

Tadpole, you are obviously right. What about morter?

Matt got involved yesterday and had us take apart the top area of the fall. We can use some of the liner to bring up and it did help one area quite a bit. That is the biggest issue. Because we had originally planned for the fall to have one level coming over the retaining wall the liner had to be cut to go over the wall. Then he decided that we couldn't get a stone big enough and we had to step it out and now the liner isn't correct for the new design.. Needless to say I am quite irritated over it (understatement! LOL). We'll get it eventually. I know. It's frustrating because being that we have done this before, I thought we would avoid some of those kinds of mistakes. The weather doesn't cooperate either. It's either raining or blazing hot. It's going to be gorgeous if we ever get it watertight!

Tadpole · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2011, 07:56:09 AM »

I wouldn't recommend mortar either for various reasons, the main one being that it will not form a watertight seal with the liner. I would get another liner large enough for what you envision. It would probably be cheaper in the long run and you wouldn't e laying in bed at night wondering if it was leaking.

Julles · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2011, 10:37:50 AM »

Yep, you need a new, bigger liner under there. You can put it on top, in addition to the existing one, but you can't get away with not having it.

matherfish · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:56:13 PM »

A larger liner is the solution. Won't have to worry and wasting time and effort. Good luck!

Esther · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2011, 06:18:30 PM »

In Michigan, your mortar will crack with the freezing and thawing, eventually.

perplexed ponder · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2011, 06:09:29 AM »

You're right Esther. Matt says all those rocks need to come down and we need to join liner and redo them.
I had plenty of liner before he decided that the falls should come straight over the wall!!!

We have big pieces we can join, just have to get some glue. Of course it's going to be 90 degrees for the next few days, too hot to be out there!

Tadpole · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2011, 08:44:15 AM »

GLUE!? Seaming liner to obtain complete watertight integrity can be tricky, at best. It is usually accomplished using Seam Tape. Lap cement can be used in certain liner configurations, but never in a unsupported vertical application. I would still suggest using ONE piece of liner large enough for this application, eliminating all the hassle of seaming and also eliminating ANY possible future leaks.

perplexed ponder · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2011, 06:08:46 AM »

Well, we had a little bit of good luck! Had to pull apart part of the retaining wall and was able to pull enugh liner out so now the entire fall area is the one original piece of liner!

The pond gods must have
smiled on us! Now we just have to put all the bricks and rocks back, and it's in the 90's all week. Blah!

Then this morning....a heron landed! think we spotted him just as he got here 'cause the dog had just come in. water is still so yucky i can't see if he got anyone

Michiponder · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2011, 08:13:01 AM »

Glad to hear that you were able to fix the waterfall leak. That is where most leaks I have seen are and they can be a real pain to fix. Hopefully your water will clear soon and you will see all of your fish. Have you tried a flocculant or just waitng for it to settle?

Mikel

Tadpole · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2011, 08:22:31 AM »

Great news!!

Ky Kim · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:27:01 PM »

Can't wait to see new pictures.

Esther · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2011, 06:47:22 AM »

OH PHEW!! That is why I now know not to cut away excess liner.

When you get a chance, dose it with algaecide CAREFULLY. I know a lot of people don't like using chemicals but I used 3 doses back about a month and it's been sparkling clear ever since. I used to use barley straw and am still not convinced it works.

Mike S. · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2011, 10:37:50 AM »

I understand that it probaly won't be a popular view, but I still don't think most of what is done for algae control is quite right. I mean, most seem to tackle the problem from the wrong end.

At one time, I had 5 Koi ponds going at the same time. Sometimes, more. What I found was that so long as biofiltration was sufficient, those ponds would go through an initial green water period, followed by a string algae out break, then go clear and stay that way for season after season. Some of those ponds would go through a couple of weeks of green water in the spring, but they seldom did even that after the third year.

Most of the time, the real culprit seems to be fish load vs. biofiltration. I kept rather heavy loads, but also used seriously sized biofilters. A pair of ponds side-by-side, with the same fish load but some differences in the filter systems showed me that I the UV that was placed on one could be, and later was, done without.

Keep in mind that my ponds were in Florida. Plenty of sun and lots of heat. For me, stepping up the filter systems, including the mechanical filter sections, and the old, 10% water changes weekly, along with TIME for the ponds & filter systems to mature, kept both green water and string algae at bay.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

Tadpole · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2011, 12:08:31 PM »

Quote from: Mike S. on July 13, 2011, 10:37:50 AM

I understand that it probaly won't be a popular view, but I still don't think most of what is done for algae control is quite right. I mean, most seem to tackle the problem from the wrong end.

At one time, I had 5 Koi ponds going at the same time. Sometimes, more. What I found was that so long as biofiltration was sufficient, those ponds would go through an initial green water period, followed by a string algae out break, then go clear and stay that way for season after season. Some of those ponds would go through a couple of weeks of green water in the spring, but they seldom did even that after the third year.

Most of the time, the real culprit seems to be fish load vs. biofiltration. I kept rather heavy loads, but also used seriously sized biofilters. A pair of ponds side-by-side, with the same fish load but some differences in the filter systems showed me that I the UV that was placed on one could be, and later was, done without.

Keep in mind that my ponds were in Florida. Plenty of sun and lots of heat. For me, stepping up the filter systems, including the mechanical filter sections, and the old, 10% water changes weekly, along with TIME for the ponds & filter systems to mature, kept both green water and string algae at bay.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

It's a popular view with me!! I have been advocating the very same practices for years. The main problem that I have found is that people want instant results, which in this society of instant everything, is understandable. Nature doesn't work that way and there is NO way to force it to. Properly sized filtration (mechanical, bioconversion and phyto) to fish load and just plain old good husbandry and ample time will eliminate any excessive algae problem.

perplexed ponder · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2011, 04:24:09 PM »

Talked with a guy at the local pond shop the other day. He says that since the pond is so large, it will take longer to cycle. Makes sense. He didn't recommend any algecide either, just coagulant to get the suspended clay out. I used that today and it doesn't seem to be doing anything. I am very hesitant to use chemicals because of the dogs drinking from the pond.

I posted another thread today about the level dropping about 2 inches yesterday and 1.5 today. Could it be evaporation? Can't find leaks.

Tadpole · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2011, 05:11:37 PM »

If you have the proper sized filter for your pond, it should take the usual amount of time to cycle, maybe less because of the summer temps.
Try Gypsum to clear the water. It is absolutely harmless to fish or other aquatic organisms. Better yet, pick up some Plaster of Paris at Home Depot and make some, what the Brits call, 'biscuits'. Mix it as usual, pour into a cupcake pan or other container, let it completely cure and then place them in your skimmer or other area of moving water. Will not only clear the water (Gypsum), but will increase the Alkalinity (Calcium Carbonate) to buffer the pH.
Now the bad news, if you are losing 1.5 - 2.0 inches per day, YOU HAVE A LEAK! The evaporation rate for your area of the country has been around .25-.29 inch/day for the past week.