Vavips from pads not worth it?

[Mike S.]

I spent some time a little while back, looking at older post in various sections of the Forum. Somewhere, I'm not sure which section, I came across a post that suggested that "growers," I'm thinking the poster meant "pros," didn't think that viviporous reproduction was worth the trouble to propagate waterlilies in quantity.

At least, I'm pretty sure it was this Forum, but I'll have to look at the very few other ones i visit. 

Anyone else recall this thread? I think somewhere in that one it was also said that vavips don't tuber well either, leaving me to wonder just how the grower produced enough plants to sell.

I can see where some vavips don't produce as well as others, but with all the execellent articles on "How To" encourage vaviporous reproduction available, including Sean's, I just don't understand the thoughts expressed in that thread.
Here is a pic of one of my little kiddie pools, quite a few of the plants in it are from vaviporous starts, mostly Daubins and some Panama Pacifics. The latter haven't bloomed yet, but the Daubins are going like gang busters.



The Daubins, bloming well, 3 flowers at once on this one:



And 4 at once on this one!



These Daubins, and even the Panama Pacifics that have yet to bloom, are all showing the little brown nubs on their pads, so they will be available for reproduction, as well. It would be all to easy to get over-run with the things! I have a few more varieties that are viviporous, and will be working at getting some of them started as well, with what I've learned lately.

So, if I can locate the thread I am asking about, I think I'd like to talk to that grower and find out what prompted his comments.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

[Vickie]

Some growers might not want you to make babies from vips. They want you to buy new plants every year and not give away vip babies. They also want you to throw away tropical lilies like they are annuals if you like in colder states. This is my thoughts. I keep my tropicals in zone 6 and encourage others to store them for winter in colder states.

[Mike S.]

I understand your perspective. And I have to say, you may be right. But, I haven't found that old thread yet and now suspect it was probably on another forum.

The need to make a sale is understood. Heck, I hope to have my store on-line next year. But for me the need for a sale is not so great where I would not provide accurate information on the plants that I will sell. There are no real secrets to growing and maintaining waterlilies. Just things one hasn't learned yet. I do consider myself to be a "grower," as I did do some wholesale locally, a number of years ago and was sucessfull at it.

Over the years I've been out of it, I've forgotten quite a bit, I'm afraid. But it does come back as you're doing it, plus all the great resources on the Internet, which has grown considerably over the years. This very Forum is an excellent resource!

I'm building my web site at the moment, along with my "business" in the back yard. One thing I will be adding to the web site is a "how to" section where absolutely NO secrets will be kept. I already have a free download for anyone who wants to build a patio pond like mine.

My links page tells exactly where I get a lot of my methods and growing "secrets."

I can tell I'm starting to "rant" again, so I'll get off it and move on. But again, thanks for the reply!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

[Kat]

I find my viviparous lilies don't tuber a lot & always try to have spares of young plants grown from the pads as back up in case I loose my parent plant.  Some of them are heavily viviparous like Dauben that are easy to grow new plants from the babies.  Others like Peach Blow have never made a viviparous start from the pad.  Blink is another that acts like you can get many babies from it but I've found that many of the babies just melt away.  Lavender Lace was another that made lots of babies but it seems like it has disappeared from the trade circuit.  So maybe people weren't keeping enough of the babies going.  Plus if you are in a colder zone & the viviparous lily doesn't start to produce decent size vips until the fall, getting the babies to establish themselves before winter is another difficulty unless you set up an indoor growing area (& that has it's own challenges).   By late summer my ponds are usually so overgrown I don't have enough open space left to get many viviparous starts established.

[Julles]

One of my starts-from-a-vip is blooming as I type this.

It's from this forum that I learned to propogate vips, and I have a lot of fun with it.  Can't say that my neighbors like looking at my driveway full of Rubbermaid tubs with McDonald's gimme cups with lily starts, but what the heck?  Besides, I'm someone who can't throw anything away, especially something living. 

Just potted up another vip yesterday.

[Sean]

Viviparous (Vivip's) waterlilies are a great way for beginners to make trades and expand their collections. I have moved away from them personally many years ago as I have never seen a semi to full double vivip on the market, at least not yet and all I keep now are the rarest or fullest for my hybridizing program.

I had many viviparous lilies over the years and always either traded away or gave away spares. I never had a problem forcing vivips to tuber but I would grow them out until they had 6 or 7 pads then uproot and float the plant for a week or two then repot once a pea sized tuber began to form. Some people prefer to trade only tubers but I have never had an issue with sending plant material with full root system and pads.

Cheers,
Sean

[Mike S.]

Sean, I seem to learn something every time you post. Thanks!

I have noticed that when I delay in potting a viviporous start, it does begin making its own tuber, just as you say. I think that the water it is floating in does need to have little,if any, nutrients in it for this to happen. It does sound counter-intuitive, but supplying any fertilizer would likely keep this from happening.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL.

[Sean]

Sean, I seem to learn something every time you post. Thanks!

I have noticed that when I delay in potting a viviporous start, it does begin making its own tuber, just as you say. I think that the water it is floating in does need to have little,if any, nutrients in it for this to happen. It does sound counter-intuitive, but supplying any fertilizer would likely keep this from happening.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL.

That is correct Mike,

You need to stress the plant for it to begin forming a tuber.

Cheers,
Sean

[Mike S.]

By the way, it may drive many a pond keeper to distraction, but the little pool in the picture at the this thread has now gone through its "cycle " and is now quite clear again.  No water changes,  no chemistry, no filtration, no aeration,nothing.  All I do is remove spent pads and blooms as they drop. All this in full Florida sun.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL