The experiment begins! And now the conclusion.. Drum roll please

[El Jefe]

  Okay so with all of the talk the Wal Mart/water garden thread generated I figured I would try an experiment. My Water lily purchases last year were 25 each. all of which seem to be doing well. they were from reputable nurseries that I would recommend in a minute to purchase from.
    Along comes Wal-Mart big box store with $5.49 water lilies. so I picked up 4 ( $23.62 with tax) Some naysayers say they are lower quality, Not the lily that the package says they are and more trouble than they are worth. Simply not worth the risk, or time. Not everyone can afford $25 dollar lilies so lets see what we really get.

4 lilies in the following order: Colorado#1, James Brydon, Colorado#2, and a Sioux

The plants were selected off the shelf and inspected, no bad odor, some growth,  all in varying stages of development. A 30 gallon aquarium was filled with well water and warmed to 70 degrees and had a plant light placed over it. The start date is January 20th. Initial photos to follow.

Will all the lilies develop normally despite the abuse they likely took in the packaging process? Will they produce healthy viable plants? Will they develop into the plant I supposedly purchased?  How will these compare to  the lilies that have been in the pond for most of a full growing season?

What other answers should we seek in this experiment?
Since I have a limit on the pictures I am going  to have to show just a few in each post.

[Joyce]

Looking good Jefe!

[Mikey]

I have one complaint......  You are too darn well organized....

[andrew davis]

Well, perhaps the big box supplier did not tell you this...

But, there's a fair chance your hardy waterlilies will fizzle out if you try to raise them indoors or under glass (they don't usually respond well grown indoors) a.k.a. Fair chance they may fail, for lack of competent cultivation information

The Colorado is a large aggressive growing variety, which can spread at the rate of six foot per year when it gets going. A few years down the road, it might cost you a crew of specialist labourers a heavy days work to thin them out, I hope your large pond is not a liner pond, as large aggressive growing waterlilies would be a long term liability to hack and chop apart, when it gets to be a massive nest of thick rhisomes twenty, thirty feet wide

It may turn out you like Colorado and don't mind hacking it back, however you might have some difficulty of disposing of so many huge chunks... No wonder they turn up so cheap in the big box stores.

If the James Brydon is what it is supposed to be, you may see it very shy to bloom, or estavblish in a hot sunny climate. Perhaps the big box store did not tell you that. It is a plant that does not like hot sunny ponds. It likes cooler latitudes, it juuuuust might be perky in a shaded position where you are

Again, assuming it is James Brydon, it is not a very heat tolerant plant, with a lot of root damage, it needs nursing to avoid excessive heat. No ninety degree waters... The first hot week may well kill it, before it can establish a good set of roots

Big box store waterlilies have been harshly root cropped. It may take months, years for them to establish a decent root system before they can get going with blooms.

By which time the so called 'warranty' is likely useless and you may be stuck with a very unsuitable, mediocre plant, which has an ambition. To take over the pond with a colossal dome of very boring, very plain foliage. Which inevitably becomes riddled with aphids and fungus, just about the time of year when you want to go sit by the pond on a warm day.

This is what the mediocre-to-real cheap waterlilies usually do, they spread real fast, grow huge domes of foliage which turn into a mess early Summer, very poor flower to leaf ratio, its called. There's a dome of three hundred lilypads heaving out of the pond, somewhere among it is three mediocre buds, smothered...

A plant from a specialist grower, odds on, will have a good set of feeder roots, in season it will likely have a bloom on it (which is rather assuring, seeing the bloom is the real deal) and is more likely to settle into a blooming routine in weeks or months, rather than months, years, or never.

The specialist grower might even point out the difference between the 'choice' varieties of waterlily, and the 'coarse' varieties, so you can choose to spend your thrifty pennies more carefully...

A specialist grower will probably steer you clear of killing hardy waterlilies indoors, will probably know what will grow well in your location and steer you towards varieties which will be a long term asset.

The Sioux, may turn out to be a very nice plant in your location. It is a Marliac variety and is not so likely to spread at a horrific rate, should cope well with a real hot Summer. Though, being very poorly root cropped from the hacks from who knows where, you may have to wait until next Summer to find out...

You might really like that waterlily in the long run, it only cost you $23.62 to find out in a year or so... (Though it's usually easier to find a well rooted piece on ebay from a specialist grower, for ten bucks or so)

Assuming the box plant does turn out to be Sioux, that is...

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

[Timgod]

If all four have the initial growth of the one you show a closeup of you should be fine. I have bought a few at big box places and they were fine. The only problem that I have found is if the rhizome had any rotted portions. If you leave it in the initial container without checking the health of the stock you could get a nasty surprise as the rotted portion spreads. You are zone 8/9 like me so don't worry about blooms. Once it gets established a bit, repot and use the fertilizer technique we discussed in the other thread. If you have warm weather soon you can have blooms in a month or two. I can usually get a starter or division to blooming stage within that time no matter the source and it does not matter whether it is a hardy or a tropical.
Tim

[El Jefe]

  Andrew...
 Umm, I am at a bit of a loss Not sure if it was the intent but your post seems a bit intense. I have visited your site and have seen your plants, so I know that you know what your talking about where the lilies are concerned. Again I have no qualms about purchaing from one of the dealers I am comfortable with because I know that A. they will back up their product, B. I always get a quality product. Lots of newbies who just want to get started may not have the money to start out with many higher dollar lilies. The info you have provided is valuable and I appreciate it, the delivery however sounds as though you are Upset. 
    I have all my lilies containerized and I was just discussing with Tim on how to make them more robust. How to divide them and do so properly. The ones I currently have in the tank under the grow lights will likely not be in there for more than a few months  and when I strip them out of the fiber and mesh I will photograph the root and the tuber and post the results. If they have been hacked up then Caveat emptor,and that will be great information to post as well. Our "guests" who use this site for Pond information and how to's may find that they do not like the results and will stop purchasing them from the "Big Box" stores. 
    As I live in Tallahassee Florida, which is more like southern Georgia than Florida, we get a wide range of weather. from lows down in the 20's to highs in the upper 90's but I don't think I have ever seen a day when the pond got into the 90's. I have have 4 sreas in my pond All day sun, morning sun only afternoon sun only and shade all day I need a plant for all of those occasions, Sounds as though the James Brydon may well fit in the shady or morning sun areas.
    Another good point that you made is that the Plant containers are poorly labeled when it comes to Heat tolerance, cold tolerance, depthe of planting. It is very basic and someone could be easily misled. Basicall it says put in a fertilizer stick/pellet and toss it in. Not the best idea of the colorados grow the way you say they do. Again something new to be learned and good info arising from just this beginning discussion I am admittedly new at this, only been at it for a little over a year trying different things and alway asking questions. I Love being in near and around my pond and anything I can do to enhance the way it looks I am all for, which means I am willing to experiment to learn what to do and what not to do and to share those findings with others.  Good Bad or indifferent I intend to see what happens. I agree that they tell you little and prey on your ignorance, But that is what we are here for right? to help turn out a better ponder?  Knowledge is power and the more educated we are as a group the harder it will be to pass off a bad product. If all that you say is true then that particular business won't be in business for long with a moderately educated consumer.
   

Tim I will absolutely give your method a try on all my lilies not just these. I am looking forward to the results. I started looking at tropicals last night in my Water garden book which has numerous versions in it. I am going to want to tap your knowledge base on a few once I whittle the list down
    I checked on the lilies thsi morning and one Colorado is already stretching it's leaves out quite nicely. That would be # 3. #1 is the one pictured here and is only slightly behind #3. The other 2 appear to be waking up and opening their leaves and are not growing as quickly as the Colorados but trying none the less. I will post some pics when I get home tonight. Thanks for all of your input so far  Andy

[Timgod]

Glad they are doing okay for you. By the way check your messages when you get a second.
Tim

[El Jefe]

Wow Check this out! after just 2 days in the tank and the water warmed up, grow lights on etc I am seeing some real movement. The Colorados are the strongest growers so far, The J. Brydon and the Sioux are taking thier time but a definite difference, especially in color. I will post what the 4 starter plants looked like the day I stuck them in the Aquarium (picture to the left of the divider and then what it looked like on the 22nd when I took the pictures is on the right of the divider. Notice the Sioux has nicely developed small leaves. Anyway I said I would get these posted. Andy

[andrew davis]

>>Lots of newbies who just want to get started may not have the money to start out with many higher dollar lilies. The info you have provided is valuable and I appreciate it, the delivery however sounds as though you are Upset

The annual Spring chorus of thousands? millions? of flocking Walmarts shoppers who plant poorly selected, badly cropped, poorly stored packaged unsuitable cheap waterlilies then expect other folk to figure out what to do, or what is going wrong after the event is not always a pretty sight.

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

[El Jefe]

What better way to educate the masses then? word of mouth travels fast. I can tell that the plants experienced at least some damage (note the leaves) when being packaged. In terms of the plant itself that may be of little consequence however it could be indicative of bigger things. Judging from 2-3 days of growth the plant is decently healthy or resilient as the case may be. Again when I pull it loose we can check out the condition of the root system. I would love to hear your opinion good bad or indifferent as well as Tim's and anyone else with experience. Thanks Andy

[skippy]

> then expect other folk to figure out what to do, or what is going wrong after the event is not always a pretty sight.

Wow!,my mistake, I thought that this site was famous for helping idiots like me who dont have $A55 for pedigreed waterlilies and would welcome a little kindly advice...pity we don't have Walley world here in OZ or I would be buying one of those nasty invasive Colorados right now. Thanks for the great pictures Jefe, I will be interested to see how you go.
Carole

[El Jefe]

Carole that is exactly why sites like these exist. Everybody knows something everyone has something to add. With as much knowledge is in here we all come out ahead and our ponds will look great! Knowing that a Colorado is a rampant grower tells me alot about how to plant it. Andrew makes some good points even if the delivery sounded a little off.  Tim has given me some great info to try in Stage 2 and there will be others who have will chime in as well.  Knowledge is power and there is plenty of knowledge in here As we move towards the spring more people are going to want to know more, And like you said that is what we are here for. Sean happened to like the Colorados so I bought 2. Thanks and stay tuned! Andy

[Timgod]

If you haven't seen how beautiful the Colorado can be then go check out this thread. I found out it was one of Joyce's favorites so I put up a handful of pics for her.
http://www.americanponders.com/forum/index.php?topic=1042.0
And like I said before, $6 is a great price if you get a lily that you enjoy because it will be much more valuable in the months to come. Being of an elitist mindset does not help a newbie. Everyone was a newbie at one time.

A thing of beauty is a joy forever:
Its loveliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep
A bower quiet for us, and a sleep
Full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing.
John Keats

To slap someone down because they are less knowledgeable than you is impolite. It is a disservice to the one trying to gain knowledge. Who knows, in a few years that person could create the next great lily. Remember this is a community and in a community you should endeavor to get along for the good of the community. Welcome questions from newbies and try to embrace their potential as giving members down the line.
Tim

[Teresa]

To slap someone down because they are less knowledgeable than you is impolite. It is a disservice to the one trying to gain knowledge. Who knows, in a few years that person could create the next great lily. Remember this is a community and in a community you should endeavor to get along for the good of the community. Welcome questions from newbies and try to embrace their potential as giving members down the line.
Tim

This site, and almost all of it's members are here because we do want to help newbies (and because we enjoy each other's company).  Most of the members here are not elitist.  There has been very little slapping down or fighting of any kind here since Jerry and Sean started this place.  The nicest thing about this forum has always been that egos have been kept under control . . . many of us tend to focus on one aspect of our hobby and become very knowledgeable in that area.  There are several people here who are quite knowledgeable in landscaping plants or orchids or rare plants, others who are very knowledgeable in water lilies, some who are experts in koi, several who are quite knowledgeable in multiple areas.  And these people seem to be able to share their knowledge with each other and the rest of us without insisting that they know more than anyone else, with one exception.  It's a great place to learn - whether you're a newbie or an experienced ponder or gardner or fish keeper or waterlily hybridizer or whatever!

The waterlilies at Lowes and Home Depot and other box stores are inexpensive for sure.  If you get them when they first arrive at the store, they are probably in good shape and will grow.  They are often mislabled, but are generally tried and true older varieties - like James Brydon, Colorado, Alba, Arc en Ciel, etc - good growers and generally good performers (tho some will argue that).  I've seen packages marked as Tetragona, but that's never what they contain. 

I would make the point that once you've found this place, you can trade for divisions every spring/summer and get them much cheaper and usually get healthy specimens that are correctly named.  A lot of members offer divisions for trade or for postage when their lilies need to be divided.  You don't have to pay $55 for named pedigreed waterlilies if all you want is flowers. 

[andrew davis]

>>To slap someone down because they are less knowledgeable than you is impolite. It is a disservice to the one trying to gain knowledge.

Oh, righty, Tim hereby solemnly pledges and promises henceforth to volunteer to identify each and every unnamed unidentified Walmarts, Home depot, Lowes waterlily and pond diagnostic problem. Go Tim! You must have an incredible amount of spare time on your hands

What 'service' is it to provide misleading innaccurate information. Since when has it been slapping anyone down to provide an accurate assesment to a question such as the pro's and con's of choosing to plant poorly selected, badly cropped, poorly stored & packaged unsuitable cheap plants.

When it turns out to be a dissapointment (the probability is certainly high), you are one of thousands, millions, all experiencing the same mess of problems at the same time through Spring. By all means go get in line at Walmarts I'm sure they will be glad to sort it all out for you.

Do you think it is realistic to expect, at the height of the season, that the few folk (and they really are very, very few) who are experienced are going to be on hand to sort every mess out, when they are already over loaded with high volumes of activity through the peak of the season?

They might be kinda busy to respond to time consuming correspondence, don't be too surprised if Walmarts/ Lowes / Home Depot plant problem number 7,633,571 drifts merrily into cyberspace

Let's take one scenario...

Let's say someone sets their heart on establishing Rose Arey on their pond, because they read somewhere of it described as high bloom to lilypad ratio, sedate open growing habit, modest spread and distinctive blooms. They patiently search umpteen stores hoping for it to turn up among the cheap boxed plants.

Lets say the long shot turns up, they go find the cheap box plant, labelled Rose Arey (which some years do turn up in store plants) and it rots off that Summer (was it heat tolerance problems? was it fish grazing the roots? why was it a dud?) Little or no cultivation information on hand...

Slowly but surely, Rose Arey candidate number one fizzles out. They go out the next year and try another two labelled as Rose Arey in the hope it increases their chances. One rots off, again. (maybe it was the real deal, Rose Arey) The other turns out to be a Hollandia? Colorado? look alike. They wait all Summer for it to bloom, maybe it does, maybe it does not

Two years has passed. Hollandia? Colorado? spreads ten feet wide (too big for the pond) and puts its first bud up, YIPEEEE!

Not Rose Arey. It puts out something like fourty lilypads per bloom, not Rose Arey's ten lilypads per bloom. Completely wrong petal count. Looks wrong. Whoopsy.

It took two years to find out multiple cheap plants were nowhere near what was originally 'hoped' for.

Calculate the time lost (years) not getting what you want. Calculate the time lost potting plants, discarding plants, searching stores. Calculate time and effort choosing between filling in the pond, or killing more waterlilies (where the pond is infected with crown rot) or emptying the pond, burning and destroying contaminated soil, plants, bleaching the pond surfaces. Calculate the time lost choosing between ripping Hollandia? Colorado? out, or trying to identify it so you stand some chance of trading it, or hacking away at it, trying to force it to grow in a small pond.

At even the worst pay rate you can find in a third world country the cost of time wasted is probably going to indicate the long term cost of the 'bad choice' is going to vastly exceed the supposed short term 'savings' of shopping on the cheap a.k.a. Long term liability. I guess if time is no object, labour of love, topic of hours/days/weeks of speculation and all that the amusement value might be considered some sort of bizarre reward

Don't forget to factor in, how are you going to find answers to such questions... Bearing in mind it is going to take hours to document and discuss such a mess and you are one of thousands stuck with a poor choice that is going from bad to worse (Hollandia? Colorado? is bulging foliage out of the pond, aphids are chowing down, various fungus are withering and wasting away at the foliage the whole pond is literally, a withered mess)

What price poorly selected, badly cropped, poorly stored & packaged unsuitable cheap plants, then, when it turns out tacky...

When you figure out how to clear out that mess, you can go onwards and upwards in your quest for that holey grail ...Rose Arey (or something like it) all over again. Pot luck, what fun! (Not knowing unscrupulous folk dump named varieties infected by crown rot on the cheap end of the market as fast as they can to get rid of them)

Compare that to finding a specialist grower, who grows and knows how Rose Arey is susceptible to crown rot and is picky about having a high clay content in its potting mix, has a wide range of blooming plants on hand (which indicates they know how to keep their plants disease free), which you can double check against known references

How dull and easy that would be. tsk

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

[Sean]

The best advice for anyone here is to draw your own conclusions from all the information given and try a few experiments yourself. Somebody close to your area with similar or same growing conditions is always the best person to get advise from.

Some of our members give wonderful advice but their experience is often based on what they have read elsewhere and not drawn from their own experiences. Others have been doing this for many years and have lots of personal experience with certain varieties.

Still others will tote misleading information because they have not had any luck with most varieties, yet the ultimate problem with their poor experiences has been through poorly obtained stock plants from unknown traders or people on eBay.

It does not surprise me that one of the biggest pessimists on this forum who totes gloom and doom with certain varieties of waterlily is also the one person who openly admits to using high doses of fungicides on all their plants.

If you can obtain stock from reputable growers, all the better. You will know that the plants have been grown and cared for in only the best circumstances.

I do not support big box stores for the plants they bring in, the care the acquired plants are given or the knowledge of the plants they carry. If you can get a deal however, why not. Just expect that in most cases you are getting what you are paying for which means for little money you may not get what you expect.

On the other hand, if you got Colorado and Souix and they turn out to be the real McCoy, you found yourself a great deal.
I am not a huge fan myself of hardy waterlily because of the ultimate space they require. I can grow many more tropical waterlilies in the same space that just one hardy would require.

I am no longer a beginner and have become a purist over the years. I now only keep true to name tropical waterlilies from reputable sources and do my own hybridizing for new quality traits. I figure everybody needs to start somewhere. I don't understand why anyone would go ahead and tell somebody they will be sorry for their purchase. A person new to the hobby should be encouraged, and given good options.

Cheers,
Sean

[happyoutsidegirl]

This is my experiance not from reading but actuall.  7 or 8 years ago I put in a very small preformed pond. Maid my own filter system and grew 7 gold fish for about 6 years. I bought a wal mart mini lilly for it. put it in a pot and it has preformed beautifully and has been devided and set into the shallows of my big pond now for 2 years.It is still preforming beautifully. 2 years ago when I got the big pond up and running my dear wonderful husband drove 30 miles to the only pond supply nursary in a 125 mile radious and paid $35.00 for a huge 1 gal lilly. I did everything correctly as per her instructions and it died. She of coarse gave me a new one and it did ok this last summer. Now this last summer my dh brought me home 2 wal mart water plants. One is a mini cattail that didn't do so well and one was one of the lillies in Andy's experament. It did wonderful! It had 3 blossoms going at all times and not just leaves.I can hardly wait to see what it will do this year How ever the $35.00 one had tons of leaves and and only 1 or 2 blossems at a time. So I drew my own conclusions that you can get skunked no matter how much you spend or where you buy from. And I thank all of you for helping each of us learn and feel our openions are inportant (8:-)That's the beauty of the board, to learn and try and help. Not critasize, blame, put down,or scold each other

[Sean]

The problem with some waterlilies, yes, even named cultivars supplied by reputable sources, is they do not bloom much.
Two in particular are the hardies N. 'Lilypons' and N. 'Gloire du Temple sur Lot'. I have had both with no blooms, gave them to a friend and still no blooms.

The best advice for anyone is to know what you want, research it well. The website http://www.victoria-adventure.org/ is the definitive resource for waterlily cultivation in the world. They work closely with "GRIN Taxonomy for Plants"

GRIN taxonomic data provide the structure and nomenclature for accessions of the National Plant Germplasm System (NPGS), part of the National Genetic Resources Program (NGRP) of the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA's) Agricultural Research Service (ARS). In GRIN Taxonomy all families and genera of vascular plants and over 40,000 species from throughout the world are represented, especially economic plants and their relatives. Information on scientific and common names, classification, distribution, references, and economic impacts are provided.

Knowledge is power. If you start with healthy stock that is suited for your area and has the characteristics you expect from the plant, you can never go wrong.

On a side note, in reference to what happyoutsidegirl said. Any reputable dealer will replace your purchase if it does not work out for you.

Cheers,
Sean

[Joyce]

Here I am, live from Florida!

Thanks Timgod for that Colorado link again.

You can NOT go wrong with a Colorado, if you want constant blooms and a strong grower. If you repot every year, you will not have a problem with it getting too big. And you wont have ANY problems getting rid of extras, since it is a highly desired water lily and most people know how to keep it in contol.  I haven't yet heard of anyone letting it take over their entire pond. 
And it is NOT possible for it to take over an entire pond in one year, let alone 2.

Mine (Colorado) has been growing unpotted in a mud bottom pond (120' by 90' by 6'),  for over 5 years. I have ripped off a couple divisions for friends and clients, but mostly it has free roam...The entire clump of the biggest (there are 3 separate clumps, 2 have never been divided) is about 15-20 feet wide, not exactly a 'monster' in my humble opinion, after 5 years of free roam. Me thinks Seans 'doom & gloom' terminology is right on...Mr. 'Doom & Gloom' just likes to badmouth certain lilies since he does not like the certain people who grow it on this forum.

Anyway, here are some photos of my Colorado.




















Anyway, as you can see, Colorado is a strong grower, rampant bloomer, even if confined to a pot.
If anyone says it is a 'bad' lily, they simply do not know what they are talking about. Or they are simply badmouthing it, being doom & gloom only because they do not like the people who grow it. Too bad, their loss.

El Jefe...your experiment is proving my point....Colorado is a strong, reliable grower...and you'll soon find out, it is the first to start blooming in the spring, and the last to stop blooming in the fall.

[skippy]

Thanks for the great pics Joyce, mebbe I will save up for a Colorado next spring , even tho my pond is small and amateurish and I am cheap and exploitative (given the chance )! I can't believe this discussion has generated so much heat.

On another angle it is sad that some countries pay workers very little but if you were to not buy from them most of us would be living in a bare house butt naked. It is all about International trade dude and by not buying an imported waterlily you are not going to change the multi billion dollar movement of stuff and money around the world. Try getting excited about the arms trade if you want a cause, that would really make a difference. (Apologies to everyone but I don't like being told I am stupid on a public forum)

[El Jefe]

Wow this has sparked some real discussion! That is always a good thing!  I want to keep this thread alive to the benefit of all so that we might all gain from the discussion, especially all of our lurker guests who will read but do not care to post. That being said.....
Andrew, It is obvious that you are a knowledgeable individual with some experience. Knowledge that especially in this thread may be useful. It has already given me insight. Your delivery is wanting, not a personal attack as that has no place on this board. No one likes to be spoken to in a condescending manner, after 23 years in the Navy I do not suffer it well, however I have chose to take it with a grain of salt because I can see that there is some good info in there. If you want people to respect you AND WHAT YOU BRING TO THE TABLE, then you have to earn their respect. You do that by respecting them first and then helping them to grow using the knowledge you have gained to help improve their ponds and choice in cultivars. I do not see what it is that you possibly have to gain by talking to people in the manner you do. If it is negative attention you crave I guess I get it, If you just like being arbitrary and contentious then I would have to ask to what end? Why bother? It gains you nothing but the ire of you peers. and the disdain of everyone else. Ponding and water gardening bring me a huge amount of joy and it is VERY theraputic for me. I want to help others to get started and experiencing the same joy I get. I managed to find what I believed to be a great forum and even invited some friends to come with me. I have a whole 34 posts and you have managed to berate me and what I was trying to do withinin the first 10. Why would anyone want to post here if that was the treatment they could expect from it's members. Remember there are many more guests reviewing this site than members, If we want to have then register and post adding to our knowledge base you are going to have to lighten up. Try and be positive and show us what that kind of experience and knowledge can do. Like it or not people are going to want to gain information from sites like these, they are going to have issues and problems and they will seek the advice of the experienced. Don't feel burdened to try and solve all of their issues there are plenty of others in here willing to help and in a much more receptive and personable fashion. All that being said
Tim, Sean, Theresa Debbie and Joyce you make great points. Tim all I can say is amen, you hit the nail on the head as did Sean and Theresa in their posts, Joyce  seeing those colorados is very encouraging. If my 6 dollar plants actually do well I will be glad to have them as additions to my pond. Given Tims input for planting and the initial indications I may well have something to show! Can't wait to get home and check on my plants! Andy

[happyoutsidegirl]

  Very well said Andy. I agree with every word. Joyce I love your pond and lillies but I haven't found one I dis like as of yet. We all should share what we know is fact except what is wrong and agree to disagree with out upsetting anyone.

[Mucky_Waters]

I find it amazing that simple water lilies can inspire such emotionally charged discussion.    I guess it shows how passionate people can be about this hobby.

Joyce with my pond being mostly ice bound for the last 3 months I found it very satisfying to view your pictures. Thanks for posting them. 

El Jefe I hope you can carry this thread till your first bloom.

[El Jefe]

Happyoutsidegirl, Thanks for that. and I agree. I do not mind being told I am wrong and even that information I have provided is incorrect or even being corrected, it is all in the delivery.
    I think we have a lot of good info to be gained from this thread and I may well pull those plants loose from their packaging and find that the roots or the tuber does indeed have some issues. Then again I may find that someone took some pride in their work and packed it right, giving it every chance to survive later.
    Joyce, beautiful pictures! thanks for the feed back! Andy

[tammie]

El Jefe -   
Tammie

[andrew davis]

>>>>Andrew, It is obvious that you are a knowledgeable individual with some experience. Knowledge that especially in this thread may be useful. It has already given me insight. Your delivery is wanting

The delivery is appropriate for the subject of pro's and con's of taking a poorly informed risk on trying cheap waterlilies. An assessment of the upside and the downside from someone who has been growing waterlilies a whiles

Should you choose to put your head in the sand, the cart before the horse, kill fish and plants willy nilly and shop at Walmart's is entirely at your discretion

>>It does not surprise me that one of the biggest pessimists on this forum who totes gloom and doom with certain varieties of waterlily is also the one person who openly admits to using high doses of fungicides on all their plants.

Sean, you don't know what doses, materials, frequency, or applications that I use. I never mentioned it. By all means go look up Perry Slocum, Norman Bennett, Ray Davies notes on the subject of maintaining disease free collections of ornamental plants.

>>who totes gloom and doom with certain varieties of waterlily

Of the varieties of waterlily I came across, Colorado I'd place behind Perry's Orange Sunset, Perry's Florida Sunset, Peaches and Cream, Indiana, Sioux, Georgia Peach, Marliacea Carnea (Peachy Orangey pinky types) when plants are compared side by side and long term, flower to leaf ratio, spreading habit.

Folk do seem to be forever trying to get rid of Colorado or Attraction, or Albida, hohum, no thanks

Fast spreading largish waterlilies are inclined to crowd their foliage up in a dome out of the water at the best part of the Summer season and become susceptible to aphid and fungus infestations which turn the whole lot into a mess.

The frequently repeated problem of cheap waterlilies becoming a mess in unsuitable ponds does conjure up happy memories of wrestling with knotted masses of rhisomes (one foot thick) and titanic masses of tether roots (four foot long) on a hot sunny day

If ever you consider putting a large fast spreading variety in a large pond, check out an estimate or two from a reputable lake management company (try a referral from the guys on pondboss.com) as to the current rate of carefully cutting a pond choked with rhisomes in several feet of water, where the rhisomes and roots are one huge knotted mass sitting right on top of the pond liner

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

[El Jefe]

Andrew I bet you got beat up alot when you were a kid

[El Jefe]

Well I went out to my Aquarium and Checked my plants they are all dead They were Doomed I guess! Oh wait never mind I had to turn on the lights, Sorry my mistake

Alot has happened in two days I may have to pot these up faster than I thought. Note that Plant three has some black on it,  I know I pinched the plant trying to open it but that does not explain the black coloration. Is this indicative of something? Plant appears to be growing steadily despite the coloration (do I need to break out the Desinex?) Andy

[El Jefe]

Well today was the one week mark. I decided that as we enter week two we needed to jump to stage 2. I would remove all of the Lilies from their respective mesh bags and report on my findings.
Lilies 1 and 3 are both colorados and they had sent runners all the way to the surface of the water. Lily two , the James Brydon, had not made much more progress from a couple of days ago, some but not a lot. Lily 4 the Sioux, had opened up a little more but not much else.
    Keeping in mind Andrews warnings about rot and fungus I figured it would be safe to use a pair of latex gloves when handling each plant. Every pant was removed and inspected. All had what appeared to me as healty tubers. Each was firm and did not show any signs of rot or fungus, I was unexpectedly and pleasantly surprised at what I did find when I removed them.

Each of the colorados had a larger tuber than the other two and they appeared healthy I removed damaged leaves from # 3 ... Nuff said. Both were photographed and repotted in their original pot using the planting technique given to me by TimGod (Tim) I will move them to larger pots as we progress.

Lily #2 and 4 gave me a pleasant surprise.  Both had Multiple plants growing from them. I separated the James Brydon plantlet and took a small piece of the tuber with it, I replanted it as well in the same style as the others. Lily # 4 was the big surprise, The Sioux was not getting much larger but it was multiplying. It had 4 plantlets attached to that tuber.  I did not separate these as they appeared to be too small and I thought I would get the advice of the pro's in here first. I did replant it until I hear what the Pros think and the manner in which I should do it.

On another note. I noted that when each plant was removed from it's respective packaging, the plants were packaged in peat moss and nothing else. Other than to keep the plant stable and take your plant to the pond bottom,  I do not see what use the mesh bag was.  So first lesson, remove the plants out of their respective packages and plant them properly right away. 

So if all goes well (correct me if I am wrong) , I could have 2 James Brydons and 5 Sioux to go along with the 2 Colorados..... Here are the pictures......

[Teresa]

Let me just be the first to say that I would very much like to find something to trade you for a Sioux . . . . it's a lily I've always wanted to try and from what I understand it is somewhat shade tolerant (an absolute necessity in my case).  If you will pm me, I'm sure we can come to some arrangement when your experiment is complete and I'm in no hurry for anything (ever), so, by all means, complete the experiment.

Ok that said, thanks for the wonderful pictorial . . . . . keep up the good work.  You are definitely a welcome addition to this forum.