Author Topic: The experiment begins! And now the conclusion.. Drum roll please (Read 22509 times)

Joyce · « **Reply #120 on:** February 09, 2007, 01:25:43 PM »

In my experience, Aurora is a changeable peach colored mini water lily.(hardy)

Craig · « **Reply #121 on:** February 09, 2007, 01:44:37 PM »

Hi Andy,

I'd still walk lightly with regard to the 'Atropurpurea'. Ever source I checked mentioned it is trouble in zones higher than 7 and the temperature mentioned in Perry Slocum's book at which the flowers burn was upper 80's to 90's...not 100. Shade may help the burn, but that may well be because there are few flowers to burn. Trading shade for sun in most instances reduces the frequency of blooms.

<<I have three different versions. Two from 'truly named' participants and one from Marilyn.>>

Based on other posts, a doubtful statement at best...except for the Marilyn part.

The Truly Named program has not been around for a full year yet, so if you obtained your 'Gloriosa' more than a year ago, there were no 'Truly Named' participants. Even assuming you had gotten them after the inception of the program, you mentioned that one source was Bennets and while James Bennet is a WGI member, Bennets Water Gardens is not a 'Truly Named' participant. You also listed Perry's Water Garden as a source, they recently enrolled in the Truly Named program, but as of last season they were not participants. And Marilyn is also not a 'Truly Named' participant.

<<private collectors are usually by far and away the better source for collecting waterlilies.>>

I agree than private collections "can" be a good source, but there is no reason to expect them to be a "far and away better source". It depends largely on the care expended in building the collection and few people seem to pay adequate attention to provenance, so you run into "garbage in...garbage out." Betsy Sakata for one has spent time visiting private collections hoping to find "lost" cultivars such as Pring's 'Rio Rita', but in that case, it was a dead end. No one knows of a single 'Rio Rita' in existence. But if recall correctly, Walter Pagels found the true 'Arc en Ciel' in a collection and was instrumental in reintroducing it to the hobby.

For the average ponder or collector such as yourself, at this point the 'Truly Named' program is undoubtedly the best source for true to name cultivars.

As to the political ramifications of the water garden industry buying practices, that is the stuff of another thread. But from the boxes I have seen, the shipper is invariably Dutch.

And I think the 'famous people' sightings were all made tongue in cheek.<g>

Vickie · « **Reply #122 on:** February 09, 2007, 05:13:41 PM »

Craig so is Tricker's Rio Rita not a true one? It is listed there.

karen J · « **Reply #123 on:** February 09, 2007, 06:08:33 PM »

Quote from: Marilyn C on February 09, 2007, 06:34:48 AM

One lily that confounds me is Patio Joe. I saw it at one watergarden nursery and it was a light colored pink.
I ordered it and I traded for it twice and all three times it turned out to be identical to Colorado. I am going to plant it in the mud pond and forget about it.

Patio Joe confounds me too. Mine behaves just like Colorado as well, although there is a propensity for the blooms to stand above the water level by several inches. Do you have any pictures of yours? I'll have to dig up some pictures of mine, and maybe we can compare to Joyce's pics.

PS, I still have your Gloriosa, if that's what it is, and it is very beautiful. Hope it survives our -12F weather.

There is a lot of good information in this thread, much of it buried between bickers, but well worth the read. Although, as Mark Twain said, "The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement".

Marilyn C · « **Reply #124 on:** February 10, 2007, 07:34:06 AM »

Karen, I don't have any pics of my Patio Joe. It looks identical to Colorado tho. Colorado holds it's blooms up. Here is mine....this is how big it will get in a tank.

I lost so many of my lilies when the horses got in the yard and spent a day (while I was away) trashing all the waterlilies.

I never even re-potted them after that. That's sad, but I hate potting lilies and to have to do it all over again and they were so trashed. A couple of years later, the survivors are out there, and I am going to re-pot them all this year.

I am not going to get into it as much as before. There is too much here for me to keep up with and I am still rehabbing and that takes up the majority of my time. Also I am practically crippled by a bad knee.

My husband even got me 6 new waterlily tanks last year, and they filled up with rain water and I never even put a lily in them. And I have two "new" old concrete tanks that we moved here a couple of weeks ago...so I have plenty of room for them. I am putting some in the mud pond, because I gave away all my koi...found a man with a 20 acre sandpit that had koi in it and wanted them. It would be such a good home for them, I had to let them go.

El Jefe, I live north/west of Galveston, Texas...about 15 miles as the crow flies, but about 40 miles by car because I am across the bayou and down in the boondocks.

Karen, do you ever see Robert Steinbach, my old waterlily friend? He used to post on the waterlily list but not in a long time.

El Jefe · « **Reply #125 on:** February 10, 2007, 07:55:01 AM »

$:-\$ $:-\$ Aww crud! Well thanks anyway Craig. I will hope the Aflames and the Berniece Ikins do well. Then the addition of the James Brydon and the Sioux coupled with the yellows and the white that are in there as well as the colorados and I should have a good looking spread. The Lemon mist out in the pond keep trying to flower despite the 40 degree weather so come spring they should do well I would think. Then of course there are the Aussie lillies you gave me. seeds seem to be sprouting despite the tank only being 75. I will check them again today. even if I only get a couple that will be awesome!

andy

Marilyn C · « **Reply #126 on:** February 10, 2007, 08:02:25 AM »

El Jefe, I looked at your pictures as best I could....I have dial up and it is very slow. They seem to be growing very well...better than mine, but I chunked mine outside. I am sure the warmer aquarium water makes the difference.

Koi Boi · « **Reply #127 on:** February 10, 2007, 11:32:32 AM »

Hi Marilyn C and karen J,

Quote

One lily that confounds me is Patio Joe.

Quote

[Patio Joe confounds me too./quote]

I don’t know if this will help in regard to the Patio Joe quandary but a fella I’ve grown to know over the last 15 years told me some years back that Perry Slocum named a lily after his wife, “Louise Villamarette”. He told me that Colorado was one of the parents. Joe told me once that his interest in water lilies began in 1967 and has been the proprietor of a local pondering shop, Patio Garden Ponds, a good deal longer than the fifteen years I’ve known him. Anyway, he has been referred to as “Patio Joe “ since I’ve known him. It’s on his T-shirts, his truck, his news letters and flyers, etc. So, I’ll try and remember to ask him if he knows anything about the origins of “Patio Joe” the lily when I see him next.

Paul

Koi Boi · « **Reply #128 on:** February 10, 2007, 11:39:14 AM »

Ya’ll pardon me, I still don’t have this quote thing down yet!??!

Paul

Craig · « **Reply #129 on:** February 10, 2007, 11:48:15 AM »

Hi Vickie,

Trickster's is not the place I would look for a true 'Rio Rita'. I've never dealt with them, but have heard horror stories on misidentifications from them what has.

I know of someone that purchase a 'Rio Rita' from them this past summer and though she was hopeful, it didn't sound to me that what she got was genuine. The stamen in the lily description are purple, but never appeared to be so in her photo....which could be a function of the photo, so not damning in and of itself. But 'Rio Rita' is a vivip and last I heard her's had never done so. One other parameter that seemed to vary from the description was while it is described as having small leaves, she spoke of it as being the largest lily she had. Not often ( ever?) you see a huge lily with small pads.

Also, a few years back ( late 90's?), MoBot was trying to restore their Pring collection and requests went out for anyone with Pring hybrids to please help. A few weeks ago I contacted the gentleman in charge of the program and asked him if the search for RR and 'Bob Trickett' had been successful. They did manage to find the true 'Bob Trickett', but no one ever came up with a true 'Rio Rita'. I have to believe with the resources of MoBot that Tricker's was contacted and didn't pan out.

Hi Marilyn, if that is the same Robert I'm thinking of....he stopped by here maybe a year ago. He did say something to the effect that his computer had died and with it gone he realized how much time was wasted on the thing, so he had no plans to replace it.

Vickie · « **Reply #130 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:13:27 PM »

Thanks Craig.

Marilyn C · « **Reply #131 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:57:37 PM »

Yes, Craig...that's probably the same fellow. Thanks.

El Jefe...I see the backs of my Walmart Sioux's pads are speckled. That is a sign that it is probably going to be something other than red or white or pink. I'm going to try to get mine potted tomorrow. It was just too darn cold
(to me) to be potting lilies today.

I was thinking someone posted a pic of Rio Rita to the waterlily list last week. I could well be confused...but I remember thinking I thought that one was lost.

I used to have Rio Rita many years ago.

Marie Fisher · « **Reply #132 on:** February 10, 2007, 04:57:29 PM »

Anacharis will take over a southern pond (Memphis, Tn.) I hate that stuff. Every spring I throw
away a truck load, next spring there is another truck load. Hornwort performs well for me,
primrose is another nuisance tho. It is pretty, but best put it in a tub or waterfall if you want
it.
TimGood There are a lot of us who'd like to have N. William Philllips. He told me that he
could not get the plant to reproduce, thereby leaving me to think he only had one or two of
the plant. Maybe some day!!!
Marilyn -- It is really great to see you back posting, taking an interest in things, including
your ponds. Just watch out for old Ten Dogs!!!! Are you thru with Rehab? Any lilies you
are missing, ask me, just might have what you're wanting. You did know Jean Neimi passed
away few months ago. Mary might have patio Joe, and I think I do, will share with you.
Re: Escarboucle Have had this plant three years. It has produced one bloom. And have
tried it in full sun, in part shade, in full shade, in shallow water and in deep water. About to
give up although I think it is gorgeous.

El Jefe Your lilies are looking great. james Brydon is a hard one to get a true plant. So if
I were going to be suspicious of any of yours, it would be that one. I bought 4 plants before
finally got true one. You are doing a great job. And I agree with others, don't cut up your
plants just yet. Know I'm a lilie snob, but I like the Colorado bloom.

On the hardies vs. tropicals issue. Here they balance out. Hardies bloom starting about April,
shut down by end of September. Tropicals start blooming about June, and bloom till up in
November, most of them, but most especially the blues.

Joyce, you are about to find out what a boss is when you deal with the public. I too
contracted and dealt with the public. So glad I just quit one day (did not retire). You
will love it tho, I did, but still not sorry I quit. Now I will only do an occasional consultation
for someone I know well. Now I water garden!!!! LOL

Craig -- so glad you defined pilot. Had no idea what they were talking about.

This is a very interesting thread. Learned things from it.

Marie Fisher

SheilaJ · « **Reply #133 on:** February 10, 2007, 07:21:06 PM »

OK, my brushes with celebrity, limited as they are - my madrigal group sang "Happy Birthday" to Elizabeth Taylor when she gave a speech at our high school. My mother went to college with Warren Beatty in Illinois. My husband and I ate dinner at an Italian restaurant in Baltimore a few tables away from Warren Beatty and Sen. Barbara Mikulski.

Joyce, I'm sure you have no trouble dealing with people. Me, I'm happy to let someone else be the boss and I just mess with the plants. They whine a lot less (well, lately, with all the cold weather, they've been complaining too!).

Joyce · « **Reply #134 on:** February 10, 2007, 07:47:17 PM »

Thanks Sheila.

Of course I'm not gonna be fool enough to take on too many clients...aka bosses.

My partner and I plan on being quite exclusive, we already have a list of clients who would like me to design a garden/landscape/pond for them. Plus I will be getting involved with designing a relaxation 'zen' garden at an oncology office/complex. Plus I have been asked to help set up garden shows. I am already doing a LOT of consultations, freelance.

(which would keep me in business even if I didn't have my regular job) Doesn't seem like 'bosses' to me at all. Most people just say, 'OK...OK, I want this, I want,' that when looking through my garden idea/design album-portfolio.

It's just time for me to move on. Since my boss died over 2 years ago from pancreatic cancer, it just hasn't been the same. I've given the new owners a lot of time to get through the transition....but it's not looking good...no one will ever be like Frank to me. No one will ever work as hard as Frank did, or put so much back into the business, or make me feel like an equal, intelligent partner. He was not sexist towards me in any way. What I have been seeing for over 2 years makes me very insecure about the future of the company. I feel like I am on a sinking ship. Not enough money is going back into the business. Too many 'toys' are being bought, and too much 'playing' is going on.

Sexism...don't get me started.

In this day and age, a LOT can be said about customer service. It is what keeps smart businesses thriving-successful. Get snotty, or nasty with customers (-anybody-) and you will lose respect, lose customers, and eventually lose your business, except to those who don't know any better.

And then sooner or later (usually sooner) they will know better. Thanks goodness for some companies, new groups of 'those-who-don't-know-any-better' keep on coming along, otherwise they'd go out of business.

My reputation has spread not only because of my skills, but because I go above and beyond the call of duty with each and every customer. I listen to them VERY carefully, and remember each and every item on their wish list. They get what they ask for, and more. I follow up, visit at least once a season, and keep in contact via emails, phone calls, etc to insure that each customer knows I care, before, during and after the job. I make each customer a photo album, and keep them updated when needed. Word of mouth gets around fast and people don't mind paying a bit more. Cuz you get what you pay for.

karen J · « **Reply #135 on:** February 10, 2007, 08:45:06 PM »

Marilyn, No I didn't get to go to Bob's place last year, and I regret that. Will definitely visit him this year, it's a real treat and a great education.
I suspect the Indiana he sold me is Aurora. However, it does not bloom very much and I wonder if the six (or so) less petals that Aurora has could simply be a cultural problem with my Indiana. I'd still like to find him the Equisetum gigantea that he was looking for.

My "Patio Joe" (on a very sunny day)-

I bought this Patio Joe from a reputable local nursery, and it came from Hughes (or at least the tag said it did).

I'll be amazed if there's anything left alive in my pond after this cold spell, yet somehow, there always is!

Koi Boi- I thought Slocum's wife's name was Maggie Belle? Maybe there was more than one.

El Jefe · « **Reply #136 on:** February 10, 2007, 08:56:56 PM »

First, I appreciate all the input and feedback. I can see that alot of people are learning from this thread.
James Brydon: My JB has dark Burgundy (?) pads. When I looked it up on the website that appeared to be consistent. My sioux has small pads and almost arrow shaped and they are more burgundy mottled with green than green mottled with burgundy there are some darker burgundy spots on the leaves on the underside. Maybe not a sioux? or just smallish because of the aquarium? Will get a picture up soon, part of the experment right??
Speaking of the JB, looks as though the small plant I removed (before ya'll told me not to) and repotted went into a growth spurt. It is getting big quick, much quicker than I thought. The Colorados are throwing pads everywhere. May need to get them out into the Pond sooner than later. I am just afraid the cooler pond water may stifle further growth or stunt the plant somehow.. My colorado leasve look identical to Karens Patio joes buit that would make sense if one of the parents is a colorado....
More later...... Andy

Marilyn C · « **Reply #137 on:** February 10, 2007, 10:22:43 PM »

Koi Boi, I think you meant Dr. Strawn, instead of Perry. Those are his lilies. But, it sort of explains why Patio Joe (the lily) isn't a small lily....you'd sort of think that by the name, and it is interesting to find out he named it after an actual person...or an actual person's nickname.

Karen, your Patio Joe, looks more like the one I first saw, a little lighter than the one I have. I think the one I have now came from Mary, but looking at the victoria-adventure site, mine looks very much like that one, and that is supposed to be the real deal, since it came from Strawn's.

I've gotten a mis-named lily from Hughes'.

I bought Doll House and it turned out to be Aurora.

El Jefe, our Sioux(s) may be Aurora. There are a lot of them out there in boxes. Lowe's had a big clearance sale and a friend of mine bought all the remaining boxed lilies for a nickel apiece. A lot of them were Aurora. It isn't my favorite lily. It doesn't bloom as much as I would like, but I haven't really treated it well.

James Brydon does have burgundy new pads and after they turn green, a few will have one or two dark spots on them.

Marie, I am just waiting for the first babies of the season to start arriving, and dreading it. The rehabbers have a hospital now in Houston, and a lot of the wildlife will go there. I will probably just keep getting the ones from the Galveston shelter. I have had as many as 90 animals here at a time, and feeding little ones around the clock...kept me worn to a frazzle. I wish I had never started it...but I have enormous sympathy for the animals...and until now, there haven't been that many people to help out. I have fewer now than ever...I have 11 possums. Actually, one has been released but he moved back into his cage. He comes and goes. Five more are ready to go. One has to stay for about 3 more months due to some wounds he is recovering from, and 2 more have recovered and can go in a day or so, and two are non releasable.

I only saw one big cottonmouth last summer, and I don't think it was Ten Dogs. It didn't look big enough...altho I didn't get very close to look at it. Unless he has left the area, he is still out there some where. I wouldn't hurt him for the world and I was always happy when I ran across him....except the time I found myself in a lily tank with one of them, but I think that one was Mister Twister.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #138 on:** February 10, 2007, 11:18:48 PM »

OMG! My heart just stopped and my ears are ringing. If I see snakes I freak out. The only thing that scares me to death. I can't belive you name them taboot. OMG! I'm afraid if I ever get a rattler in my pond I'll fill it in. Or any of them for that matter.

Marilyn C · « **Reply #139 on:** February 11, 2007, 06:11:10 AM »

Well, yes, I do.

I've never seen a rattler or a copperhead here, but have seen a few coral snakes and lots of cottonmouths. I live on a bayou...and I moved into their backyard. I am glad that there is at least one small place where no one is afraid and no one kills them.

This is Ten Dogs, in a very neglected waterlily tank. He's fishing.

SheilaJ · « **Reply #140 on:** February 11, 2007, 09:03:07 AM »

Joyce, sounds like you've got some great business lined up. It sounds like it's definitely time to move on. I've worked in a sexist atmosphere too (a "good ol' boys" bank in the 1980's) and won't ever be doing THAT again!!! Is your partner someone from your present company or are you not at liberty to say?

I wish you the best and am sure you'll do well. I also wish you were close enough to do my yard and that I could afford you!

El Jefe · « **Reply #141 on:** February 11, 2007, 01:48:54 PM »

Okay now I am a bit perplexed

Colorado #1 has it's "pilot leaves" intact and right where they have always been these leaves are a different shape and size than the normal Pads. It also appears that I am to have a bloom soon from it. Now Colorado #2 (plant #3) was identical on form and function to #1 until a few days ago, Notice the distinct 'pilot' leaves all went to the surface with the exception of 1 which is on it's way. Why is that? I thought those leaves served a distinct function and stayed close to home. last is a picture of what I purchased as a Sioux however Now I am having my doubts anybody want to attempt to identify it?.... will show the JB in the next response. Andy

Sean · « **Reply #142 on:** February 11, 2007, 02:22:35 PM »

You do indeed have a flower bud there on the first N. Colorado.

Do not worry about the fact that the submerged leaves on the second one rose to the surface, it may have been as simple as the plant is requiring more light due to neighboring pads shading it's crown.

It will be difficult at best to judge these plants until they become established in your outdoor ponds. Waterlilies grown indoors under light act and often look different than ones grown outdoors.

For now I would just enjoy them for what they are, a fun experiment.

Cheers,
Sean

Marilyn C · « **Reply #143 on:** February 11, 2007, 03:06:56 PM »

Well, you have got to say this for them...they sure do look healthy! And it doesn't surprise me at all that Colorado would send up a bloom so quickly. It is one of the blooming-est lilies I have ever had.

I didn't get mine potted today. Too overcast and cold.

El Jefe · « **Reply #144 on:** February 12, 2007, 05:43:26 AM »

Healthy, That is Timgods fault

he is the one that showed me the light on how to repot the plants so they would do well. He wasnt kidding when he said I should/could have blooms within 30 days of potting them in that mix. it has only been about 2 weeks since I potted them. All of them are growing well.

Sean, I wasn't concerned (as in whats wrong or is something going wrong) as much as Curious as to what would make a plant do that. My initial understanding was that these leaves had a fixed purpose, they were there regardless of cycle, (dormant vs active). As they seemed to have a unique shape (as opposed to a standard pad) it seemed to me that these leaves had one mission in life. I was not aware that the plant could alter that mission and utilize those leaves as pads. Nothing in their environment changed other than the light issue (which may be the reason but there is plenty of surface area still available)

If I am keeping the water at 70-75 degrees do I have to wait until the Pond is the same temperature in order to transplant? Will cooler waters shock the plant back ionto a dormant state? (not that I am going to do that just yet, just want to know) I would imagine that for optimum results I wouild need to wait until then.

Andy

karen J · « **Reply #145 on:** February 12, 2007, 07:17:58 AM »

Andy, I don't think water temp is as important as sunlight intensity. I wouldn't go and stick them in a 40 degree pond, but I definitely would harden them off a bit before putting them in full sun.
How are you keeping your water so clear? It looks great.

El Jefe · « **Reply #146 on:** February 12, 2007, 07:38:27 AM »

Good to know info.... When the time is right I will move them out into a filtered sunlight are and leave the Lights on, later I will remove the lights and turn the heater down to better match the outside climate. I will transfer their pots to a larger one and then move them to the pond. That is the plan anyway......
I am using an algae controller to keep the algae bloom at bay and doing some partial water changes when necessary. Past that not much

Sean · « **Reply #147 on:** February 12, 2007, 10:57:38 AM »

Water temperature difference wound not affect a tropical waterlily but it certainly will with a hardy waterlily. Been there done that.

I have grown out some gorgeous starts indoors over winter and after placing them in an unheated pond in March all of them went dormant, actually a couple died.

If I were you I would wait until your water temps are closer to 60F. Should any of your lilies in the aquarium get too many pads, shading out the others, just clip them back to the newest three to five floating pads.

Cheers,
Sean

El Jefe · « **Reply #148 on:** February 12, 2007, 02:15:17 PM »

Again Good info! I must say think I am learning as much from this thread as anyone! I think I have taken something away from this thread just about every day

Tme to throw the thermometer in the bottom of the pond

Andy

Sean · « **Reply #149 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:31:06 PM »

Hi Andy,

I'd let you use my big gun but I don't think it would heat your massive pond enough. It keeps my pond nice and toasty though as you can see from my weather gif.

Cheers,
Sean