Author Topic: Is this the conventional wisdom when dividing Hardy water lilies? (Read 6516 times)

El Jefe · « **on:** January 21, 2007, 10:23:06 AM »

I have seen different ways to divide hardy's is this the best info? is one time of year better than another? what about palnting depths? some lilies are cqapable of growing deeper right?
Thanks ...

Hardy Water Lilies
Hardy water lilies are planted in much the same way as the tropicals using a loam garden soil and 2-3 fertilizer tablets. Hardy lilies grow horizontally across the container so a wide pot is necessary for planting (a 14 or 16inch fabric pot is the best container). The rhizome should be planted at one edge of the container with the rhizome planted at an angle of about 45 degrees with the crown exposed. Top with an inch or two of pea gravel or sand. The plant can be lowered to a depth of 6 inches to begin with, and then lowered to a depth of 12 - 18 inches as the plant grows. Hardy lilies should be planted in early spring and should be fertilized every 4-6 weeks. They bloom from June through September depending on the weather, and become dormant during the colder months. As spring approaches, growth will begin again.

Dividing and Repotting Hardy Water Lilies
Hardy water lilies should be divided every two or three years depending on the plant container size. For the average to large size water lily, a five to seven gallon container is ideal. The best container will be shallow and wide. Small water lilies can be potted in a three to five gallon container.

Begin by removing the soil from the water lily using a water hose to expose the rhizomes. Select the best looking piece with good growth showing and cut to about three inches long, discard the remainder of the plant.

Trim away excess roots and any damaged foliage from the selected piece.If the water lily is to remain unpotted for any length of time, keep it in the shade with damp paper towels or newspaper covering the plant.

Prepare the container by filling about three fourths full of aquatic planting soil (clay loam is ideal) and add ten grams of a good fertilizer such as 10-20-10 for every gallon of soil.

Mound some soil against one side of the container and place the rhizome at a 45 degree angle with the cut edge against the pot and the growing point at the level the top of the soil will be. Add more soil to within a couple of inches of the top of the container. Firm the soil in place and add about one inch of pea gravel to cover the soil keeping it from covering the growing point of the plant. Gently add some water to the container and then slowly lower the plant into the pond.

If you place the plant just a few inches under the water for the first few weeks, you will get faster growth. After this, place the plant at the proper growing depth (Depth varis by cultivar). Fertilize the water lily every month with the same amount of fertilizer during the growing season.
source= http://www.thewatergarden.com

Timgod · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2007, 04:09:19 PM »

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Hardy water lilies should be divided every two or three years depending on the plant container size.

I live pretty far south. I can divide mine every three or four months. In the course of a growing season my rhizomes usually grow almost a foot. I don't do any transplanting in very cold temps because dividing stresses the plant enough but other than that I am able to successfully divide at will throughout the year. Once there are at least three plants visible I will usually consider dividing. If the plant is working hard to divide and propagate it does not seem to put up as many blooms for me. One thing I have learned from reading everyone's ideas on feeding is a combination of several techniques. I use fertilizer tabs all year long. However when I replant I also mix granulated flowering fertilizer throughout the soil. This gives me increased plant size and more blooms in a shorter time as the roots spreading do not have to rely on "finding" the 2 or 3 tabs. There is fertilizer throughout. Just make sure you fully cover the fertilized dirt with sand to keep the fertilizer from leeching into the water. I can usually get a starter tropical or a less mature hardy division to blooming in just a few weeks to a month.

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Select the best looking piece with good growth showing and cut to about three inches long, discard the remainder of the plant.

It looks like there are at least 2 plants and most likely quite a few more in your picture. You don't want to keep a rhizome portion that is rotting as it will continue to rot throughout. However instead of throwing what is left away, put it in something to float. With warm water you will get many more plants to grow out over the next month or two. Even if you don't need more, it can't hurt, you will have more blooms to enjoy and you will possibly turn someone onto this great hobby with a gift that keeps on giving.
Tim

El Jefe · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2007, 07:06:52 PM »

Wow lots of great info and I do appreciate it, Aside from my "experiment" plants" I have 2 lemon mist, 2 escarboucle, 1 texas dawn, 2 aflame, 1 pink grapefruit and some native white Lilies I can't wait for the spring! 1 of my lemon mist tried to bloom last week but the bloom never opened (that I can tell) I may wade in during the late spring to repot all of them using this technique. I really could use some showy blooms this year. I was also told that you could remove the "eyes" and grow additional plants. What is that about and is there a special technique? Also as we are in the same Zone (Tallahassee Florida) how do tropicals do if you leave them in the pond to overwinter? Thanks
Andy

Timgod · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2007, 07:27:54 PM »

I usually only lose a few during the winters. The all do fine through early Feb. We then usually warm up, they break dormancy a little and we get nailed by another final cold snap that does some in each year. I bought 20 new varieties last year to try and propagate some new lilies. Most of which I only have one of so I built a greenhouse just to try and protect them. I also feed the fish less as the temps in the water drop. Unfortunately since the plant are small and almost dormant, grazing by the fish becomes detrimental.

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I was also told that you could remove the "eyes" and grow additional plants. What is that about and is there a special technique?

That is why I suggested floating the left over rhizome parts in some warm water. Think of the rhizome like a potato. Each little eye has the potential to sprout a new plant. If you cut all of the little bumps off they will most likely die. If you leave a chunk of rhizome that has eyes, it provides the nourishment for the potential plantlets. You don't want to separate and plant a tropical until it has some sort of root system. You can plant a hardy without roots but it does much better if it has roots. You can actually force a plant into dormancy by starving it. Pull it out of soil. Cut about a third of its roots so it cannot reach down to soil to feed. It will go dormant and use all of its energy to reproduce itself to keep the line alive. By doing so, you sometimes risk losing the plant but in many cases you can turn one plant into two or more. Just do it with one that you have more than one of if you try this. I wouldn't want you to hate me later.

Tim

El Jefe · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2007, 08:38:56 PM »

Tim again great information. Do you use any special mix of soil to keep them robust? Or do you just use quality top soil? Do you mix in any sand?? Just curious.

Also I said in my last post I had 2 Aflame and 2 Escarboucle (same thing) I meant 2 Berniece Ikins and 2 Escarboucles (aflames) as well as the others.

Do some hardies go dormant and withdraw to the bottom of the pond while others continue to grow? How deep can you plant the two I mentioned above? some sites say from 4-5 foot of water but I think that is pushing it right? or am I mistaken?

I would love to try a couple of tropicals as well, something with a deep color not found in Hardies, and something sturdy, What would you recommend?

Andy

Timgod · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2007, 09:46:57 PM »

Sometimes I mix in sand but it is mainly as I recycle from repotting. As I said I top them with sand to keep the fertilizer from leeching out. Over time that mixes with the soil due to water motion, fish, snails and plant growth. At that point there is no way to separate it from the soil and no point. All of my plants are potted so I don't know of any withdrawing to the bottom. They do go dormant so you can no longer see foliage in cold water or very little. As soon as you get regular warmer water they perk up though. Four to five feet is a little deep for conventional thoughts but if it is a mature plant it would be fine I would believe. Leaves on lilies can reach up for the surface up to a foot overnight if lowered from shelf to shelf. I have seen big specimens in 8 feet of water that were incredible but I'm sure it did not start out at that depth.As far as tropicals, you live in Heaven. Tropicals love warm weather and you have a great climate. You can pick just about anything you like based on color. Tropicals do much better for me than hardies. The majority of the people here on the forum are from farther north so many of them specialize in the hardies as they do much better than the tropicals for them or they end up with a much shorter growing season.
Have you ever been to the victoria adventure site? It has the most up to date information on lilies, victorias etc on the net. Here is a link to the site index...
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/site_map.html
Here is a link to the named lilies...
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/waterlilies/names/names_main.html
Go there when you have a few hours to kill....believe me you will be there quite a while.
You have the best hybridizer in the world in your part of the country...Craig Presnell...he posts here. He is so knowledgeable and seems to be a genuinely great person more than willing to help newbies learn the ropes. Florida Aquatics is there in Fla. as well and they have produced quite a few beautiful hybrids over the years.
Tim

El Jefe · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2007, 05:48:02 PM »

Tim Great Info, I used your mix to transplant my lilies, I hope they do as well as yours! I also found this link that is a little more detailed on dividing lilies http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/7025/dividing_water_lilies_1.html
Andy

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2007, 08:09:29 PM »

Thanks guys, this is great stuff.

Pam B · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2007, 05:08:12 PM »

I have hardy lillies that are in desperate need of repotting this spring. My yard has very, very sandy soil. My rhizomes have completly taken over their containers. I need new clay soil. What can I substitute for the clay. I was told never to use "potting soil" due to algea problems that will encure. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Pam

El Jefe · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2007, 02:04:54 PM »

I used Garden soil. (not potting soil) it is a deep rich soil and you can purchase it at home depot. I mixed in the time released fertilizer for flowering plants ( I have 2 types, 1 is 10-10-10 and one is 17-17-17) Not sure which is better but both seem to work equally as well. Lastly I covered the soil with Aqua soil, it is a baked clay mix that is heavier than sand an keeps the soil from leaching out. Seems to work great. Hope this helps.
Andy

Pam B · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2007, 06:36:10 PM »

thanks for the suggestion. I book marked this page for spring use.
Pam

El Jefe · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2007, 07:01:43 AM »

Tim Feel free to correct me or add to this, I don't want to pass out bad info. Craig maybe you or Sean may have something to add? Thanks Andy

Timgod · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2007, 11:16:22 AM »

I use dirt that I dig up or dirt that I purchase at a place that sells all sorts of topsoil, sand, rocks, landscape material etc. The biggest thing to avoid is any planting medium that has bits that will float...ie. wood, mulch, perlite etc. Kit Knotts in Fla plants hers in sand. This works great for her as it is freely available. The only problem with sand is that allows the nutrients to quickly leech into the water. The general idea is the heavier the soil, the better it is for the lily as it is able to retain more nutrients. Water lily root systems are very strong and over the course of a season they can displace a lot of soil through their growth.
I mix fertilizer for flowering plants into the soil/ dirt when I replant lilies. I use a fertilizer with a high middle number for example 10-25-10 as opposed to a 10-10-10. I also use pond tabs heavily to promote free flowering of my lilies.
After planting, I cover with sand to keep the dirt from fouling the water as I put it into water or move them about. I then cover the sand with pea gravel to keep the fish from nibbling on the rhizomes, roots and tender shoots.
Tim

Craig · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2007, 04:05:29 PM »

I'm a sand user. I dig it on the property, but it is as fine as confectioner's sugar so I amend it with a coarser sand ( masonry sand). I personally think the soil in most hobbyist's backyard is just the ticket for potting lilies and the aquatic soils for sale.....a needless expense.

Sand, a little peat and some osmocote triple 14 and my lilies are good to go.

El Jefe · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2007, 08:03:35 PM »

See I knew Craig and Tim would have some value added input

Craig I am curious, why the peat? I seem to have quite a bit of Fafard left and I can use that when I repot.

Tim I used the triple 10 when I placed the Wal Mart lilies and that in conjunction with the Garden Soil and the lilies took off almost overnight

Even the cutting dropped roots and shot pads to the surface quickly. I only used the aqua soil to hold the dirt in and keep soil controlled, sand or peagravel would also work. My fish are not plant abusive so I only use it to add weight and keep the soil in. All and all good to know! Thanks Tim and Craig... Now about that peat

Timgod · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2007, 11:04:35 PM »

I've never used peat either so I am curious to the effect it has. I did however buy a bag of peat yesterday for the first time as I have Victoria seeds beginning to sprout. Craig through what is evidently his normal planting regimen discovered a few years ago that it is very successful in aiding the development of the seeds. It is now part of the recommended way to grow Victoria's from Kit and Co.
Tim

Sean · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2007, 11:34:35 PM »

If you have hard water, Peat Moss has a wonderful effect on the plant. Here in the North, where much of our water comes from Peat Bogs and very soft water, we do not need it. I have never tested my water but do know we have very soft water since a little soap in the shower goes a very very long way.

Cheers,
Sean

Marilyn C · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2007, 07:35:03 AM »

Interesting about the peat. You learn something new every day.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2007, 03:17:19 PM »

I new that about peat, but somehow just didn't associate it with the pond water. A lot of our ground here is very sandy and I have bags of peat as I use it to amend my flower beds. Guess I have just what it takes right under my nose,um I mean shovel.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2007, 02:08:26 PM »

Ok now, I have read and reread this but I just don't find where it states when? Other than spring. Spring in the south is much warmer than here. Can you give me water temps? My water temp in the deepest part 34" has been 40 to 43* Is this still to early to devide and repot my hardy lillies???

CT · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2007, 03:04:46 PM »

And in the same vein, what water temps are safe to put tropicals back outside?

SueSTx · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:14:00 AM »

Everybody get ready to throw rocks at me. Last summer I did an experiment and added about 1/2 gallon of composted manure on the bottom of the pot with top soil over that and then used the cheap clay kitty litter covered with rocks. The lilies in the manure out bloomed the others. Yes I had a slight green water problem for a short time...but it was a new setup so what.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:27:53 AM »

Quote from: Kay on March 10, 2007, 03:04:46 PM

And in the same vein, what water temps are safe to put tropicals back outside?

Hi Kay, don't know if you cought it or not but we got our answer in a different thread. Craig said when the water is about 60* so I have a bit to go.
Joyce say's she always uses compost with her lillies, not sure if she has manure or not tho. My compost is part horse manure and I'm using it this year along with my garden soil.

SheilaJ · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2007, 06:45:11 PM »

My books say tropicals should not go out until water temperatures are 70 degrees F. I've noticed that when I try to fudge, or if it gets colder soon after I put them out, they sulk and sometimes even go dormant. Maybe Craig can do 60 degrees because it is so much warmer most of the year and he doesn't get extreme temperature drops like we do here.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2007, 06:47:56 PM »

Thanks Sheila, that's good to know also cuz I'm hopeing to get at least one Tropical this year. Now that Craig has tought me how to winter it over here.

CT · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2007, 07:02:25 PM »

Thanks! I haven't had much time to read here lately.

Craig · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2007, 02:30:08 PM »

Craig was refering to hardy lilies.<g>

Timgod · « **Reply #27 on:** March 13, 2007, 02:44:14 PM »

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Craig was refering to hardy lilies.<g>

Referring to yourself in the third person..... Hmmmmmmm....... You okay buddy???

Tim

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #28 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:41:17 PM »

Maybe in cogneetow?

SheilaJ · « **Reply #29 on:** March 13, 2007, 06:29:19 PM »

Sorry, Craig. Did Craig watch the last episode of "Gray's Anatomy" where Izzy and Whatshisname kept referring to themselves in the third person? Sheila did!