Author Topic: We've lost 4 fish already....  (Read 3050 times)

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Offline Daisy

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We've lost 4 fish already....
« on: March 06, 2007, 09:11:12 AM »
and I don't have any idea why? This is the 1st winter out of 4 or 5 winters that we have had our fish that we ever lost any.  :(
Now all of a sudden we have lost 4 of them. I suppose it could be just about anything...not enough oxygen, algae, just don't know. :swear:

Offline Cindi

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 09:26:52 AM »
Gosh, that stinks!!  I hope you figure it out.  I have no experience with this as this is my first winter with my pond and so far so good. 
Cindi
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Offline Esther

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 10:09:54 AM »
That is upsetting.

I have no idea what's going on under our ice with the fish. Sure hope everything is OK.

Offline Daisy

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2007, 10:44:57 AM »
Hopefully the rest that are in there will be ok.  :-\ The ice has melted off the pond but the water is so green I can't see to the bottom. Maybe thats part of the problem.  >:(-

Where is SPRING???

 o(      o(

Offline tranquility

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2007, 11:05:12 AM »
Daisy with the water being green and it being that cool...have you checked your water parimeters....algae needs something to feed it....and it sounds like its eating well....if you have a testing kit go ahead and check it..remember to let the water set untill its room temp for the ammonia test....also wouldn't hurt to go ahead and do a small water change if your temps will allow it....
Lawanna
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Offline Daisy

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2007, 11:34:08 AM »
Actually Lawanna, its suppose to warm up some later this week and I think doing a water change is a very good idea!
I think it might be the best thing we can do right now.  A check of water might be a good thing too.  :ok:

Offline tranquility

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2007, 11:44:43 AM »
water changes can sure do a world of good.....I was having a terrrible time with string algae last year...untill someone suggested to me to start more water changes...I do 20-25% once or sometimes even 2 times a week thru the summer and then try to keep  them up every 2 weeks during the winter....and it has really helped....of course my pond is only  2,000 with 4 koi between 22"-27".....hopefully we can get their new home dug this season and then they will have 5,000 gallons....
Lawanna
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Offline Bonnie

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2007, 12:28:40 PM »
So sorry to hear this Daisy.

I found one of my 14" Koi floating in the pond the other day.. dead. :'(


Sometimes we never can figure out why our fish die. 
All we can do is try our best to overwinter them.

Lawanna has addressed some concerns.. a small water change would defiantely be good.

Other questions would be:
How deep is your pond ..
Is your pond overstocked..
Did you keep a hole in the ice with a deicer, etc..
ETC

Do you have an airpump in the pond?  Adding air is always a good thing..

Good luck,
Bonnie

Offline Daisy

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2007, 12:36:44 PM »
Thanks Lawanna...the water change is gonna happen.

Bonnnie our pond is approx. 2 1/2 ft. deep. Its not overstocked at all...with the loss of 4 fish there are only 5 fish left. We always kept the fish supply low. These were the original fish we started with 5 years ago.  Yes we have a deicer in the pond that always kept a hole open. We never used an airpump and maybe that is something we should do , althought we never did it before and had no problem.

But you are right that sometimes we just never know. Sorry to hear about your fish.  :(


Offline Bonnie

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2007, 12:55:49 PM »
We've had a range of different temperatures, etc in the weather, too.
Fish are most vulnerable in the winter with their suppressed immune system..
Who knows?



I'm hoping to do the first water change this weekend too..

Maybe spring weather will be here very soon so we can get our ponds back in order!

Sorry again about the loss of your fish.........

GAJen

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2007, 01:30:34 PM »
Sorry for your loss. Down here we don't get iced over so I can watch mine year round.

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2007, 05:02:07 PM »
Hi Daisy, Sorry about your losses :'( I know how attached I am to mine. I was worried to for mine this year as the weather has been so wierd? Hot when it should be cold freezing when it usually is not! Just crazy! Maybe your fish just got to stressed with it all? But any rate Lawanna has given very good advice.  Keep us posted.
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Offline CT

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2007, 05:31:39 PM »
So sorry to hear about your fish Daisy.   :'( I hope you can find the cause soon.

Offline barb

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2007, 12:16:51 PM »
I am so sorry about the fish losses.  I turned the pump/filter off for the winter, I read somewhere that it made the water colder.  Is that not true?  I don't know how my fish survived the winter, I've only seen one so far alive.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2007, 12:44:27 PM »
Barb,
As far as leaving a pump on in the winter...
They say that if you have a waterfall etc where water is being exposed to the air, the air temp will change the water temp.
If the air temp is colder than your water temp then it will make the water cooler.   
Of course many things come in play such as how big of a pump, how big is your pond, the air temp, etc.
Sometimes it doesn't make alot of difference.

My main concern is freezing pipes, etc..  that's why I either add an airpump or submersible pump which is just below the surface of the water.   My submersible pump usually keeps a hole open in the ice too!
 o( o( o( o(


Daisy, hoping that no more fish have died.. so far everything looks okay for me!
Temps are even going to get in the low 60's next week! O0

Offline marla

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2007, 05:24:25 PM »
Daisy, sorry to here about your fish lost.  I'd definately be doing a water test.  If you have a large ice melt ph can change, also any decomp happening from leaves could be causing a chemistry problem.   If you do a water change make sure you use declohr if you are on city water.
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Offline Daisy

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2007, 04:51:11 AM »
Thanks for all of the replies.  :) We added a makeshift water flow to the pond which is adding a lot more oxygen and so far (keep you fingers crossed) we haven't had any more dead fish.  O0 We also turn our waterfall off when the temps get too cold.

It is suppose to warm up here by the weekend Bonnie. All the way to the 50's   @O@  I can't wait. Do you think Spring might be coming?  :clap:  Going to do a small water change then and check the water.

Marla we live in a new subdivision so there aren't any trees to speak of so leaves I'm not to worried about , but you never know whats going on with the plants that are at the bottom of the pond.


Offline Ky Kim

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2007, 09:27:49 PM »
I lost one back in Dec. have no idea why.  It looked fine, but everyone else in the pond has been fine.  Hope you find the cause soon, fingers crossed that you do.

Kim

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Offline CT

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2007, 03:46:38 AM »
Kim,
  Didn't you have Wakin babies in the greenhouse? How are they doing?

Offline milliemax

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2007, 06:36:18 PM »
We also turn our waterfall off when the temps get too cold.

  Why is that? I had some freezing temps (VERY low for CA) The fountain seemed to keep the pond from completely freezing, allowing some air in.
  I'm a newbie at ponding so I may be totally wrong on this subject. :-\
   Nancy
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Offline Rocmon

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2007, 07:48:50 PM »
Sorry to hear about your losses.

Do you have filtration going? Do you have a rock bottom pond? I've heard 5 years can be a fatal age for rock, if it hasn't been cleaned out—probably depends on a lot more than just that. I don't have your kind of cold so I wouldn't have any knowledge about how to keep your fish healthy under ice.

Checking water parameters sounds like a great place to start. Water changes and air is going to help even if that isn't the cause. Did you find any signs on the fish to point to what the cause could be?

Offline Eluned

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2007, 08:42:56 AM »
If a pond is around 75% ice covered, that ice acts like a blanket, insulating the water from the cold air.  Water temps will usually be between 38-42 degrees under ice.  When we get cold snaps here, air temps drop into the twenties and teens.  Water freezes at 32 degrees, so if you are running a waterfall when temperatures are below freezing, the water temperature can drop to dangerous (for the fish) low temperatures.
Make sense?

Regarding other things that go wrong over the winter - koi and GF are temperate water fish, and not really adapted for the cold.  They lack the ability to really stay active (like trout) or hibernate (like frogs), instead they go into torpor, which means they basically hunker down and sulk until conditions are livable.  Their immune sytem pretty much shuts down. The good bacteria in the filter are less active during the winter, but that is ok, because as their metabolism slow down, they produce less ammonia.  However, solid wastes (and plant or leaf debris) that are left in the pond over fall and winter will feed the 'bad bacteria' that can also attack the fish.  It is very important that the pond goes into the winter nice and clean. 

We tend to stop testing the water (and doing water changes) once cold weather hits.  Since there is less biological activity, we tnd to think there is no reason to worry.  However, there is still some biological activity, which consumes the carbonate buffers (KH).  Rain and snow also dilute the buffers, so testing the KH over the winter is important.  You can bring it up with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). 

Because the immune system doesn't really kick into high gear until water temps are in the mid to upper 60's, and because solids build up over the winter, promoting the bad bugs, spring is when we often SEE problems that have been brewing for months. 

I like to do a good clean out during the fall, dome the pond over the winter, and then do a nice big water change from the bottom of the pond in spring.  If filters have been shut down, don't drain the mucky water into the pond when you clean them out.  Before doing a major spring pond clean out, you should wait until water temps are at least 60 degrees. Netting fish is very stressful, but that is a whole 'nuther topic.  (GF tend to be a bit more rugged than koi, but the some concepts are true for both.)

Good luck!

Offline andrew davis

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2007, 08:43:12 PM »
A blanket of snow over the ice is a lethal combination, if it blots out light to the algae and plants below the ice. After three or four days of black out all that organic matter breaks up releasing quite lethal methane and hydrogen sulphide beneath the sealed ice layers

Clearing the snow enough to allow light to penetrate the ice can cut down that risk

If the water supply is good, a slow trickle can improve water quality if there are signs of degrading poor water quality

Regards, andy
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Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2007, 08:47:14 PM »
Guess thats why we stress to keep a whole open  and either falls running or a bubler. I have never cleard of the snow and todate no problem.
I'm just happier outside!
 Debbie
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Offline Daisy

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2007, 08:04:27 AM »
Rocmon...no rock bottom...
Eluned and Andrew...very good advice and I think that weather/snow/ice and gunk at the bottom of the pond was the culprit.
I've learned more things that I didn't know before thanks to everyone here.  O0
Water parameters were checked this weekend and they weren't all that bad. We did do a water change and brought the plants at the bottom of the pond up on the shelf area. Scooped out stuff on the bottom that we didn't even know were there!  :no:
We have water running back into the pond for oxygen and things look soooo much better.

A blanket of snow over the ice is a lethal combination, if it blots out light to the algae and plants below the ice. After three or four days of black out all that organic matter breaks up releasing quite lethal methane and hydrogen sulphide beneath the sealed ice layers

We had quite a bit of that Andrew and that had to play a BIG part.

Thanks again for all the help. My fish love you  o(:-)

Offline happyoutsidegirl

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Re: We've lost 4 fish already....
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2007, 06:39:37 PM »
Daisey, I'm glad to hear things are looking better. good job! ;)
I'm just happier outside!
 Debbie
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