Efficient pumps - opinions

[rcr203]

So, what pumps have the best performance for wattage that you know of?

And let's be fair to look at external and submersible.

On the submersible side, Calpumps look to be very expensive - running in the hundreds of watts, while comparisons to something like Laguna MaxFlows running in the 100 watt range.

What do people here think?

(and yes, I'm looking at expanding my pond/building a new pond next to the current one and trying to decide if I want the extra work of an external pump, how much they cost to keep running, and see if the wattage quotes on all these things are actually accurate from people's experience)

[Esther]

Compare the warranty too.

[seanmckinney]

In Extrenals Sequence are, I believe, efficient. I think there is another frequently mentioned on koiphen that reminds me of a persons name but I havent been overly interested so I dont remember the name at the moment. William? something perhaps
In submersibles the old Oase aquamaxes were good for low head use, I have 3, but I havent looked at the figures for the new aquamaxes. However some of the Hozelok titans came close to the aquamaxes. For an american the problem with Oase stuff is or was the purchase price

[Esther]

I have a Tsurumi 3000 with a safety shutoff float.

[happyoutsidegirl]

I use an Aquscape 5000 with a 2" out let. It does a great job at feeding my 12' high falls. Oh ya it is submergable.

[frloplady]

William Lim has good pumps, I'm running 2 of his Wave pumps..  http://www.wlimcorp.com/

Superfalls makes a good efficient pump as well. 

For smaller pumps that can be inline or submersible I like the pondmaster pumps. 

Mary

[richdeer3]

Cal pumps and Pond master are very good on enegry usage. Not sure abou the ones you named.

Calculate Monthly Operation Expenses.
The more efficient your pond pump the less
money it will cost to operate. Most pumps are rated in watts or amps. Here are
the formulas for figuring the monthly operation expense of your pump: If rated
in watts: Watts divided by 1000 times kWh (your kilowatt cost) x 24 hours per
day x 30 days per month. Watts/1000kWh x24x30
For example a pump that operates on 225 watts
would cost $13.77 per month to operate based on $0.085 per kWh assuming the
pump is operated 24 hours per day, 30 days per month.
If rated in amps: Amps x Volts divided by 1000 x
kWh (your kilowatt cost) x 24 hours per day x 30 days per month.
A x V/1000x24x30 For example a pump that
operates on 4 amps would cost $28.15 per month to operate based on $0.085 per
kWh assuming the pump is operated 24 hours per day, 30 days per month. The kWh
is kilowatt per hour cost. You can figure out your kWh cost by contacting your
local electric company or it is usually printed on your electric bill. The initial cost of a pond pump is another factor to
consider. Don’t be misled by a pumps high price. For example take a look
at this comparison of two pond pumps: Pump “A” costs $149.99 and operates on
350watts for 1800 gph. This pump costs $21.42 per month to operate. Pump “B”
costs $189.99 and operates on 110watts for 1800gph. This pump costs $6.73 per
month to operate. Purchasing Pump “B” will cost you an additional $40
initially but saves you $14.69 per month in utility expenses. Over an average
life of four years, Pump “B” will save you $665.12!
Determine desired flow rate. The industry standard for
a pond pump is that it have a flow rate equal to a minimum of half of your
pond’s volume. So if you have a 2000 gallon pond then you would need a 1000
gallon per hour (gph) pump. We recommend, however, that you “turn” your pond
water over once per hour. This means that if you have 2000 gallon pond then
you would need a 2000gph pump. Basically, if you don’t plan on keeping fish in
your pond then you can use the first formula. If you do want fish then we
would recommend the second formula. Another consideration when choosing the
desired flow rate of your pump is to be sure that the flow will create the
desired waterfall effect–should a waterfall be in your plan. To create a
beautiful waterfall, you want 100gph minimum for every inch your waterfall is
wide. If you are planning a 24” wide waterfall then you will want a minimum of
2400gph.

Use the discount code showers to get the 10% forum member discount.

Richdeer3 Pond Supplies
Educating and Equipping Pond Enthusiasts
http://Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com
richdeer3@yahoo.com
Call Gail at 641-750-3062 8am-8pm CST

[MikeW]

I love Oase. Six years back it was around $300, but about 1600 GPH for 100 watts, and therefore, nothing noticable on the electric bill. A submersible, it has run 24/7 for over five years, without any prescreen / mechanical filter. Just dropped it in, plugged it in, and German efficiency went to work.

Cheers,

Mike

[Jerry]

YES to Sequence. It has been faithful for 2 years now.  Laguna and Cal Pump gave me fits.
It is a low power consumer too.

[Bullfrog]

OK, I'm trying to learn. If a pump puts out say 3560 GPH and lists 1 foot of lift, hom many gallons will it be reduced by say 3 feet of height? I read that ten feet of horizontal flow equals one foot of lift or head pressure. I'm thinking that you don't totally lose flow at three feet with a pump that advertises one foot of lift, you just get a reduced flow, right?

[Rocmon]

I started with a Cal Torpedo pump Great design if only they could make it work. 1/3 hp  520 watts 4200 gph @ 0'  zero feet? Get real. Do not buy a Cal pump as they are junk. My first one was replaced in 5 months bad bearings, the second lasted about three months, my third one is for a back-up pump only (warranty is expired now), it started to leak when I first installed it... When it fails again I will replace it with a Wave.

I replaced the Cal with an external Wave 1,   1/4hp (William Lim pump) about 6228 gph @4' at 322 watts you do the math, 322 watts or 500 watts and much more water.

Artesian, I have read are a great external, they are a tiny bit more efficient than the William Lim pumps, Sequence I've heard mixed reviews. Tsunami used to be the best submersible from what I've read. Williams warranty is three years—I flooded mine after about 6 months, completely submerged it. The bearings started making noise after I dried it out. I sent it back to William and he replaced the bearings and the impeller all for no charge. Now that's a warranty.

Bullfrog: Any good pump maker will provide a graph chart showing the water output at a given head height. See chart on link. Remember height is only part of the equation, pipe friction loss is another. I didn't understand it but when I got a handle on it—wow every elbow bend and fitting costs you head height or water flow and it adds up quickly.

http://www.wlimproducts.com/crv-dra.htm

                                                                                

[Bullfrog]

Rocmon, as an industrial firefighter I'm real familiar with friction loss. Every section of hose that we add and every flight of stairs that we climb have us screaming over the radio for more pump pressure. Now a fire engine has one fine pump but I wouldn't want it running in my back yard.  , nor would I care to feed it.

I am learning a lot about pumps and filters from you so keep the good advice coming. I'm really looking at the Oase Aquamax or Oase Atlantis as the number look real good and them seem to be very efficient.

[nomadh]

I know this is an d post but its good info so far.  I also hear the w. limm pumps are very rugged and efficient but get up there in price a bit also.  I have been very impressed with my older model Laguna submersible pump.  I have the 2000 and the 3000 model.  I suspect they don't pump as much as they claim and would not be good for anything with a high head.  I bought mine for less than $100 each and use something less than 100 watts.  One is way older than the 3yr warranty without a prob.  My other ground up its impeller in the 2nd year but a $20 replacement fixed it like new.  I didn't blame the pump because I wasn't prefiltering properly.  Just recently I must have pulled its wire hard because it started shocking me.  I took it apart got to the wires siliconed them and its back in production.  There just isn't enough moving parts to have much break and when it does its actually fixable.  The new models are designed to actually handle bigger solids so they should be even better.
I'd prefer to have 2 of these pumps on a bigger pond in parallel than a single bigger expensive pump.  2 pumps gives you redundancy if one goes down or maybe run 1 pump if you want your waterflow quieter or for winter.
For me the best answer is always cheap, efficient and reliable.

[-Greg-]

I have a WLim 1/15th hp Wave pump, 3000 gph, 3.4 ft. of head, 1.3 amps, and I paid $279.00 plus shipping from Kent at livingwatersolutions, he also gave me some great advice along the way. I did find the pump cheaper at a few online retailers, however as I said, Kent was extremely helpful on the phone and through email, so I figured I could pay a little more knowing that it went to a good cause!

Greg

[Bonnie]

Greg, as you found out Kent is an awecome guy..... he also does and knows alot about DIY pond products and is very helpful for anyone with questions.

W.Lim are known to be very good pumps even though I currently am running my two external Sequence which have been great so far.

For submersible I like Pondmaster and Laguna.

[Johns]

Hers's my rec:

Submersible pumps:  From 4 to 30 GPM Danner pumps rule, both in initial cost and efficiencey of operation.  No one else comes close.

 For 30 to 80 GPM, Pondmaster Pro's are hard to beat.

Out of pond pumps:  10 to 80 GPM: Sequence.  Nobody else comes close, again in cost and efficiency.

80 to 140 GPM: Sweetwater pumps

140 to 400 GPM:  High Volume Pumps (Brand)

[frloplady]

I have used and abused my WLim Wave pumps for 3 years.  Never a stop or problem.  I've run it dry , I've run it with a valve closed by accident        Still just keeps going.

[Rocmon]

I submerged my Wave 1 1/4 external pump, 6+" rain in several hours. Got a little noisy, after I dried it out. I sent it back to William and he replaced the bearings and impeller at no charge...

[Birdman]

9 times out of 10 an external pump will flow more water, for les wattage used, than a submersible.  I have a tasumi 5000 gph pump I am trying to sell for a friend.  it has a 3/4 hp motor and draws over 900 watts, cost over $800 new, flows 5200 gph.  The Evolution pumps I sell with the new American made Marathon motors are some of the most energy efficiant pumps being made.  As a compairison the Evolution ES 5500 flows 5500 gph @ 5 feet of head, only draws 286 watts and I sell it for $275.

[Master Pond Builder]

When you look at pumps there is alot of other things that need to be considered other than efficiency. There are alot of pumps out there that cost hardly anything to run, yet I would never even think about using them on my everyday installations. What you want is a pump that can pass solids to some degree and sit up on legs. for example Tsurmi, Easy Pro, Savio, Avoid pumps that have filter screens over the pump intake as these will tend to clog often which causes more maintenance, and the pump being forced to work harder as a result of being starved for water, will cause premature failure. Thats why most of these pumps like cal pump and others only carry a one year warranty. Most of the pumps that can pass solids come with a two to three year warranty. The bottom line is you get what you pay for.

Wes Mccartney
Aquatic Passions
www.kentuckypondbuilder.com

[Sunbeam56]

Well, that's one opinion.
However, not having an unlimited budget - I would opt for an efficient pump.
WLim rocks!!!

[Master Pond Builder]

Thats not my opinion, thats a fact jack. Building water gardens is what i do for a living, and after building just over three hundred water gardens, I might just know alittle something about what i'm talking about. The pumps I mentioned above that pass solids cost little about the same to run per month as some of the cheaper pumps you are talking about, and they will last longer.

[finnpond]

Sequence external has been performing extremely well for me...  I have it positioned so it is gravity fed and behind a Savio skimmer/filter and before my upflow biofilters...  Running 24/7 all year...

Dave

[RichardK]

Hi, I have been running Sequence, a Seq.,1000 and a 700 for the past 5 years +. In the season they run 24-7. I have never had a Failure during that time, with one exception, and they ran dry for about 6 hrs. had a Pond Leak. Re filled and the Sequences started and are still running, + they are very good on the Elec/Bill. I have since added a Float switch so no more dry running.
RichardK.

[Mikey]

I hate saying this because it will probably be a curse to my pump....but I also have a Sequence 1000 (high volume, low pressure) and it has been running like a dream 24/7 for 10 years.  I have a lot of plant material in the pond, mostly from hornwort and dead lily leaves and I have to agree that it causes more maintenance than I would like.  During peak summer activity I clean the leaf basket every 7-10 days.  Much less in the winter time, perhaps once every 2-3 weeks.  In fact I broke the lid to the leaf basket while removing it last week.  Fortunately my local pool supply guy had one in stock so it was a quick fix....  I'll use lube on the O rings next time.....

Master PB: How long do those pumps you speak of typically last?  If they pass solids as you state, that certainly would save me some time.....

[RichardK]

Hi Mikey/ MPB.
I checked out Master PB site and the equipement plus pumps. I was most impressed with the fantastic Ponds you have built, and the Pumps. The prices are also good. If they do all you say. I would certainly look into getting one, after my sequence gives up the ghost.
Thank you for letting us into your site.
RichardK.

[Billy Kunz]

What kind of lube to use on o -ring on pump basket? I am having problem getting mine off to. Seems all lube has dried out.

[Mikey]

I bought a tube of O ring lube at a pool supply business.  I asked about using plain old petroleum jelly or KY jelly  and the clerk said that petroleum jelly would cause the ring to swell and cause problems.  I don't believe that but I bought his tube of lube anyway....

[mascot]

I have a Tsurumi Pump and it flows about 2600 GPH.  I have it inside a Savio Skimmer and clean my filter (brushes instead of pad) about every 3-5 days, usually whenever I notice that the handle on the top of the pump is not under water.  The pump, I believe, costs me about $45-55 per month to run because it's 24/7, but it has been quiet and reliable for the past 3 years.  I even had a toad jump under the pump trying to hide from me and all I heard was blender noises.  I quickly unplugged the pump and  had to pull it out to get the dead toad, whose leg was wrapped around his torso.  Nothing happend to the pump and it's been just just fine since that happened.  I handles solids well...but who knew that a toad would be one of the solids that it tried to pass??

Overall, I'm happy with it.  At times I think I'd prefer something more efficient...but I'm not sure whether I want to go to an external unless I knew the savings would be substantial.  This pump, although it retails for over $300 most places I checked, cost me about $135.  I guess if it craps out on me I'll have to make a quick decision but I'm pretty happy with it thus far.

[Lawrence of PA]

Pond pumps are centrifugal pumps.  That means that as they are required to discharge at a higher pressure (head), their flow goes down.  Of course the manufacturers quote capacity at something like 1ft, which is about the same as running the discharge out on the ground.  Part of the head a pump has to deliver is the difference in height from the pump suction to the discharge point (waterfall, etc).  Another part is the pressure drop through the discharge hose or pipe, as has been mentioned previously.  Doubling the pipe diameter reduces the friction pressure drop to 1/4 of what it was at the smaller diameter.  Pumping through a pressurized filter is also a pressure drop that many folks don't know about.  To determine the pump discharge pressure for your specific application, you need to measure it.

The most efficient pump is the one that delivers the flow you need at the discharge pressure you need for the smallest number of watts.  It takes some research, work, and pressure measurements to find this out. 

If you look at pump specs, you will notice that not all 3500 gph pumps are created equal.  They may all put out 3500 at 1 ft, but some will put out 2000 at 10 ft, while others will only put out 1500 gph at 10 ft.  The efficiency of a pump is proportional to (Watts )/(flow x head). 

Sorry, but there just isn't a neat rule of thumb to give us a good answer.