more questions

[kevin]

here's a diagram of the pond I want to build:

[img width= height=]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/459194/diagram.jpg[/img]

The total water volume is about 1500 gallons. The top of the falls will use a filter/falls unit. It will cascade about four feet to a 6x12 foot pond, about 2 feet deep. Then will run down a 30 foot stream and empty into a 50 gallon barrel. A sump pump in the bottom of the barrel will push the water back up to the falls. The total drop should be about 5 feet.

The reservoir barrel will contain some kind of filter as well, I'm guessing. Tinkster suggested a "skippy" filter. Would that work down here? or any other suggestion for a filter in my barrel?

What about a skimmer? The pond is small and doesn't seem set up properly to use a skimmer. Can I just rely on the stream to act as a skimmer? Maybe place a screen in the path?

Here's the photo of the site.

[img width= height=]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/459194/IMG_0821b.jpg[/img]

I'm thinking that a second larger pond can be built in the future on top of the second tier of ties. I think I'd want a better pump/filter/skimmer/UV light system in that stage of the project. For now I'm trying to keep it kind of small, low maintenance and cheap.

Thanks for everyone's help so far, great suggestions and great links.

Kevin

[finnpond]

Hi Kevin...   If you should lose power or have a pump malfunction, will the water in the waterfall reservoir, pond/stream, and plumbing feed downhill and overflow your 55 Gallon drum?  A one way valve in the plumbing might resolve the problem in that area, but you would be relying on it to work each and every time (might be kinda risky)...  The amount of water in the stream and pond that would drain to the drum is another problem entirely and I'm not sure how you could make that work.......... other than to have a good size pond on the downhill side, where you have your drum now....

The Skippy would probably work best as the waterfall reservoir, and I'm all for skimmers... Savio makes a small unit...  I have the larger one and it really helps with fir needles and leaves, of which I have an abundance of....

You might want to do a search on rock in the bottom of ponds....  Lots of differing opinions on whether or not it's a good idea..  Don't think I would ever want to do it myself...

Take Care....   Dave

[Johns]

kevin,

See my site at http://www.gardenendeavors.com/

Many of you questions will be addressed.  Be sure to visit all of the links at http://www.gardenendeavors.com/rack/web14.html

[kevin]

Dave

I was kinda worried that the reservoir wouldn't hold enough water. If the power goes out or something I'd lose water through the overflow. Or a bigger worry I had is that the pump might empty the reservoir when starting back up. Maybe a 100 gallon stock tank would be better.

thanks for the link Johns, I'll check it out.

[Rocmon]

I see leaves on the ground now, and the trees are almost bare. If you have a magical way to keep them out of your pond you should tell everyone here how you do it... A skimmer is something you will want to have. With all the leaves that will not be caught up by your large volume skimmer, they will settle to the bottom of your pond. How are you going to get those out? You mentioned low maintenance. A rock bottom pond is not low maintenance, no mater what the Aquascapes people say they can sell you. Chemicals are their solution and a yearly drain and power wash. If that's low maintenance I'd hate to have a high maintenance pond—whatever that might be. So forgo the rocks, and give it a chance without them. After a year if you really think you want them then you can drain the pond and put them in—as if it was a yearly clean out, so you can get a taste of what that is like.

Oh and the two feet deep, yes Aquascapes insist ponds don't need to be deeper, but that's because they are heavily influenced by the raccoon lobby—they dump tons of money on pond legislators to keep pond depths at a minimum—so raccoons and other critters can feast upon the pond inhabitants... It's up to you, if you want ALL your fish to be feeder fish go for it.

A bottom drain w/4" drain line to a settlement or vortex filter is going to be a must have, and rocks will impede the drain working well—I know cause I had rocks. If you want the pond to be cheap then think about an external pump. They will last longer and cost a whole lot less money to run. But yes, they will cost more to buy in the first place. It's the heart of your system and money spent here is well worth it. I should know I bought a cheap pump, then replaced it in five months, and eight months and...

As for your stream when shut down. You need to calculate the total volume of your stream then provide an empty container or (pond) at the bottom to take up that flow when it shuts down. Run an overflow pipe capable of flowing at the rate of your stream from the pump container at the bottom to the storage container. That would require a sump pump or a separate piping system driven by your pump to retrieve the water.

It might involve a little more set-up money (two pumps) but you might want to consider two separate systems. One being your pond, falls, and filtration, and one being the stream and pump chamber.

I don't claim to have the answers, just throwing ideas out there...     

[tracey_shafer]

Kevin, are those rail road ties?

[kevin]

rocmon, You've convinced me to keep the bottom of the pool rock free. The diagram was refering to the rock surrounding the waterfall. I wasn't decided on putting rock in the pond, but you've further convinced me of that. Leaves are going to be a problem. Because the patio is sunken it really attracts leaves. I think I might lose the stream downslope from the pond. My drainage ditch will just have a dry stream seperate from any pond system. It just looks like too much trouble. Here's the latest idea.

[img width= height=]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/459194/IMG_1428.jpg[/img]


I'm wondering if a skimmer/filter and wier/filter will provide enough filtering for 1200 gallons.


oh and yes Tracy, those are railroad ties.

[Rocmon]

You have to decide what kind of pond your going to build; Watergarden, GF, or Koi. Once you have decided that, then you can begin to figure out volume and the filtration. Koi will require the most advanced filtration, and the deepest pond.

I have about 1200 gal pond. I have a skimmer filter and a falls biofilter. I have dramatically beefed up the standard filtration with much more than came with them. The problem I have is my BD is plumbed to the skimmer which is a bad idea, I also used to small of drain pipe for it. I would suggest you have an additional filtration unit (55 gal barrel w/ mats, brushes, microscreen or...) for the BD with a 4" BD and 4" BD pipe. That unit needs a BD too for clean-out, many folks use a shower drain for that.

A large stock tank could do for your upper filtration—there are many DIY tutorials on building them. You also want to figure out a place for a pump—an external should be below the water level of your pond. The pump vault also needs to have a drain to prevent flooding... You could put your BD filter down that slope a short bit and use the digging for multiple drain pipes and pond plumbing all together.

The sound of your falls will probably be enhanced a great deal by all those walls. This is also something to think about when planning them. The steeper they are the louder they will be. Tucked into the corner and under the deck above will make viewing them limited from inside the house. OK there's another 2 cents...