my revised design

[kevin]

First i thought I could use the pond with a stream to double as a runoff drain. That turned out to be a bad idea.
http://www.americanponders.com/forum/index.php?topic=2573.msg27313#msg27313


Then I thought I could keep both a seperate stream and runoff channel. That presents problems because the pump is positioned in a rather small reservoir.
http://www.americanponders.com/forum/index.php?topic=2609.0

So now I'm thinking about keeping it simple. A waterfall, short stream, second waterfall and then the 8x12 sq ft pond. The pond would use a skimmer/filter with a submersible pump in the skimmer. Water would be pumped up to the waterfall/filter unit. I estimate about 1200 to 1500 gallons of water in the system.
My question, will the skimmer and waterfall units provide enough filtering to keep some gold fish?

[img width= height=]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/459194/IMG_1428.jpg[/img]

[kaz]

Def make the pond bigger if you can.  The layout looks nice... will have a great sound of running water

[kevin]

hmm, why does everyone suggest making the pond bigger? What's wrong with an intimate little water feature? I see ponds in the magazines that are 500 gallons or less. It seems an economical way to begin. There are kits available for 1500 gallon ponds. That size seems to best fit my site. Perhaps later if I want to make a bigger pond I can dig on the upper level.

[Loritx]

Looking at all your pictures, I think that size fits the space nicely!  Still have room to enjoy the patio and the pond!

I am a small pond person! 

I thought my pond was going to be a bit larger than it is.  Once you start adding rocks and landscapeing the pond starts to look smaller and smaller.  Just something to consider when planning the size.  If you have some rocks or bricks laying around, make an outline of the pond size with them.  If you just mark the outline with a garden hose or rope you really dont get the feel for the size as well - it will have the illusion of being larger than it really will be!

[Rocmon]

You haven't given size of skimmer or waterfall units but, yes goldfish will be fine in that space. Do yourself a favor and put in a BD even if you think it's only for cleaning it out once a year— the cost is cheap, relatively, and once the pond is built it's a tough one to redo. Once the plumbing is in place, it's there when you decide you DO want to use it. Many people say go bigger because once people build their pond they generally want it to be bigger. A 1200–1500 gallon pond is certainly a fair amount of water for GF to swim about in. Most say that the more water there is the easier it is to take care of—temperature fluctuation as well as volume of water for dilution of fish waste, etc. A one foot deep pond is going to freeze and boil quicker than a three foot pond. If you know the perimeter size and it fits well in your space you just need to decide on a depth that will work for your situation.

Once the pond is in place a few years one can have a different reality than first conceived, when it was just an idea. My wife thought she was loosing all that planting garden space to a water hole. Now she can appreciate that the garden was really expanded not contracted.

You have to take in everyones ideas then form one of your own. Most folks are trying to help you avoid the mistakes they made.

[kevin]

ooh, great ideas. I'm going to go get some rocks and place them on my patio.

I got as cal2500 gph pump, 16 inch waterfall wier, and an Atlantic ps4000 skimmer with 6 inch wier width. plus 5x25 feet of firestone EPDM liner for the stream.

I'm considering making a disappearing waterfall instead of a pond. I have an old fiberglass soaking tub. 3x3x2 feet. 135 gallons. I could cover it with a grate and the patio stones and let the kids splash around in the foot of the falls. No fish of course. Then next year if I could add a pond if I decide I want the fish. Would I still use the skimmer as an additional filter? Will the 135 gallon tub be large enough to feed the waterfall?

That tub would make a great filter if/when i do decide to put in the pond.

[Jonna]

I think the disappearing waterfall sounds really cool.... and easier.  It looks like you are in a place with real winters so you could just turn it off in the winter right?  Plus, once the pond bug bites you, you have 2 levels for expansion 

[kevin]

Jonna

That was my thought exactly.

I'm going to have to shut down a pond in winter anyway. Unless I build a much bigger pond with all the necessary filtering and winter heating involved. I'm a little worried about a pond liner being damaged by ice. I'd probably cover it in winter but a little water would probably still sneak in there. or maybe It's not a big worry. We have a small aboveground swimming pool that freezes solid every winter and the liner is ok. It's a green nasty mess every spring but one afternoon is all that's required to get it back running.

[kaz]

Sorry Kevin... I only meant for you to consider size... any size is ok .  There's just something so wonderful and calming about having a fish pond in the garden... it's good for the soul.  The sound of running water is magical too