Fixing the skippy (new pictures 8/8)

[Jonna]

Just to set the scene, here's a picture of pond and skippy before we started.  We went around and took a lot of pictures of the RV parking spot as my friend is going to rent it out this winter when we're gone.  So, we wanted the pictures to show how it looks when it is full of plants.



Half the skippy was pretty easy to take out, it was all still in mesh planters.  The other side though, it's free rooted and the roots go all the way through to the bottom.


We finally got most of it out in one big clump.  Mimi is not happy holding it for my picture, the clump was incredibly heavy.


The smell was almost overpowering, and the muck stains like nothing else.  Diane had to use a big butcher knife and just cut through the roots to free it.


Here it is empty except for a couple inches of muck and a billion small snails.


These are the matala mats that I just didn't have the energy to try and clean the roots out of . 


Most of the plants are now living in an old preform pond.  The Savio tape is soaking in pond water and every day I try and pull out more roots and rinse off more snails. 


Here's what my pond looks like now.  Sad, I took the waterfall apart too as I figured it was a good time to make some changes there too. 


I'll post pictures of what we're doing there later.

[Jerry]

A big task for sure.  I found that a one dollar bread knife cuts roots well.  Use like a saw.
The pond looks good!  I would dump the expensive Matala too.  Too much work.  I am sure you know of the commercial floor scrubber pads.  They are cheap and work!
If you need a source try Google.  If you want my source just holler.

[Julles]

I'm glad you posted this, becaue I've been reading about skippies, skippies, skippies, but was too embarassed to ask what the heck one is.

Now I know.  Or at least I know what they look like.  (And smell like!  )

[jax]

Jules, I'm with you........what the heck is a skippy........and I THINK I know by looking at the pictures and "smelling" it but a description from one of you all with "skippies" would help to educate me a bit more.  Thanks

[Esther]

Jonna I think I remember when you were building your pond. And also remember you needing to put the cover over it because it was too hot for the plants.

Here is a link to the original guy named Skippy's site. He is now deceased. It has some good thoughts. One I don't agree with says not to clean them. UM, Jonna will attest that they do need cleaning. I do mine at the end of the season after the waterfall pump is shut off. It is what is considered a biological filter. It usually has an upflow of water that flows through various types of filter media, whatever you want to use, (some people use dish scrubbies, floor scrubber pads, wadded up netting, volcano rock, cut up sponges, cut up filter media) that has lots of surfaces for the good bio bugs to attach to that breaks down fish waste etc. So in essence, it is a septic tank for your pond. LOL It is a large version for a larger pond. If you have a small pond or preform, you can adapt any container to act in the same way. I once used a 5 gallon bucket for two summers that took care of my 6 x 6' x 18" pond.  That same bucket became the home to some baby fish even.  I also had put plants in the Skippy one summer and regretted it something awful when I realized that the plants dearly loved it there and sent roots all over the place practically ruining my media to ever use again. The next summer I put plants in small black plastic buckets to contain the root systems. This summer I didn't put anything up there and am glad not to have to monkey with them.  http://www.skippysstuff.com/biofiltr.htm   

There is another site at Koi Village with a good description of a Skippy. I would recommend purchasing the stainless steel spillway from Gene if you are purchasing the Rubbermaid 100-150 gallon stock tank because it is special made for it. Gene is a great guy and will go out of his way to help you in any way he can.  It attaches to the top front of the tank and works like a charm. Gene will also sell you a grate for it that is a little pricey but is more sturdy than the grates we have used that is sold for recessed lighting you get at Home Depot. Gene will also charge a little more and cut the grate he sells to the shape of your tank. I would recommend paying the extra and having them cut it. I will attest to what a pain it is to shape that hard plastic grate from HD. I used the cutting wheel on a Dremel. I would also recommend that if you choose to use the stuff from HD, you might want to make a support frame from PVC. I didn't the first summer but when I realized that the plants and stuff I was sitting on top were pretty heavy and didn't want to ruin the grate, I made the frame. 

http://koivillage.com/filtration/diy_filter.html

http://www.koiclay.com/diy/pg1.htm

Don't be embarrassed by not knowing what on earth a Skippy is. I did the same thing when I first started lurking on our predecessor AWGS about 6 years ago.

[Jonna]

Esther has all the info above on what a skippy is and where to find instructions to build one.  I want to say how well it works, I'm amazed at how clear the water in my pond is (at least, when the skippy is connected to it) and how simple it is.  Unlike Esther's, this pond is in an area of SoCal that doesn't freeze and I don't have to take the pond down in the winter.  So, outside of cleaning it out twice because of the leak, I don't take it apart just to clean it.  I think the reason it smelled so bad is that I hadn't been able to drain the bottom because the drain was cracked and I didn't want to touch it until we could fix it.  That's one warning, the drains that come with the Rubbermaid horse troughs that my skippy is made from, are pretty flimsy.  In mine, the threads cracked inside the hole.  We glued it together last year but knew it wasn't going to last.  Those inserts are also kind of hard to find around here.  This time we used stronger pvc and bolted it through the wall.  I don't think this one will crack.  I have the drain going into a large bed of banana trees and one of the shoots came up under the drain and pushed it hard enough to crack it, that's how the original leak started.

So, if you drain off the muck on the bottom once in a while (it is fantastic fertilizer) and even backflush it with pond water once a year I don't think you need to take it apart and clean it if you live in a tropical zone.

I'm rethinking the plant thing.  I love the way it looks with all the taro and canna and big tropicals in it.  See the first picture.  But, those roots were unbelievable!  Plus, the taro was sending runners through the waterfall that I think could have eventually moved the rocks there.  Not good.  I'm considering Esther's idea of using solid plastic buckets instead of the mesh baskets to plant them in.  The mesh baskets almost disappear in the root ball and don't contribute anything I can see.  I may have to give up the taro, it is the most invasive.  I want to try a tropical hibiscus and see if it will grow and then I could train it where I want it.  They are used as hedges here.

Esther's stand is really good and looks very sturdy but she's really good with pvc and I'm not so good.  What I use looks kind of jerryrigged and is pvc taped together to form a frame that sits on the ridges inside the trough and supports the light grids.  You can see mine in the 6th picture down leaning up next to the root infested matala mats. It works though and both supports plants and pots on top as well as keeping the whole thing from compressing and reducing the effectiveness of it as a filter.  I have Savio tape in the middle and you want the water to run through it loosely so the bugs get a chance to work.

 

[Jerry]

My "Skippy Kit" Came from Gene.  He guided me when I had a question.  I could not be more pleased.

[Ruthie]

These were really good photos and the whole post was so informative for this newbie...thank you!  I didn't know what a skippy was either, though I think I am employing something similar.  I had taro in mine, too and I just pulled it all out.  The runners were crazy.  I have had good luck with Louisiana irises in mine.  The roots have gone under the egg crate material, but they (the roots) don't get quite as massive as taro.  I also have some sedges and rushes that have done nicely.  It's almost completely hidden now.

I am thinking about using a stock tank to add another filter with a waterfall like you have here.  So I really appreciate seeing how you did it. 

[Jerry]

One should NEVER feel stupid for not knowing something.  There are no stupid questions!
Only stupid answers!

[Jonna]

I hope to start putting it back together tomorrow, I'll post pictures of the process and the layers.

[Esther]

Jonna, I completely forgot about the potential cleanout on the bottom of the Skippy. That is one step we skipped on the Skippy (pun). DH actually put the tank in place backwards. So the cleanout would be facing behind the waterfall and unusable there. But he being a plumber could have rigged it up, I'm sure. But he chose not to. We cemented rocks around the tank to cover it and when we realized we had missed putting in the cleanout, he didn't want to tear it apart. So that is why we have to clean it manually. When we built Cindi's, we installed the cleanout. I wonder if she has been using it.

It was when I began using the buckets, the grid seemed to require the support.

[tucker]

For my 5000 gal pond, I have 3 skippys, all in a line.  The first one is a mechanical filter using lots of mats, and window screening (really works well getting the large stuff out), 2/3 of the water goes to the second skippy, with the rest going to the waterfalls.  The second one has mats and lots of quilt batting.  2/3 of the water goes to the waterfalls and the balance goes to the third and bio filter, then to the waterfall.
The first filter gets rinsed out once a week, the second one gets rinsed out every other week, and the third one...at the end of the season.  All the skippy's are behind the waterfalls and hiding.
Cleaning the skippys and shop vacing once a week are my water changes.

[happyoutsidegirl]

All this info is great! I'm trying to come up with an idea to put in another filter or skippy to help keep my pond clean.
Wed. I drained mine again as the muck was overwhelming. I was able to catch all the baby fish but 6 of them buggers eludded me?It took me from 6:30 A.M. to 6:30 P.M.  to drain hose vac and refill. What a job. I can't wait to see your after pix!

[Jonna]

We got delayed, the matala mats took a week to get here and I've been really busy with some other stuff.  Today I started messing with the waterfall again, I took all the rocks off and want to use foam to guide the water a little better. 

Yesterday we put in the new weir I made out of a small trash can.  I had hoped that I could get the water to come up through holes in the bottom, through some filter pads and over the falls.  It's not really working too well yet, water is so intent on taking the easy way!  What I wanted was a way to add some filtering to polish the water, batting type stuff, and have a way for the water to get over the falls if the filter material clogged up.  I like to add batting once in a while to really get the water sparkling but I hate looking at the stuff.  If I put it before the falls and it gets clogged, the skippy overflows.  I want it below the falls with a spillover below the lip of the skippy so I'm not risking an overflow and possible emptying of the pond.  The weir works fine without batting and the emergency overflow also works well, I don't have to worry about the skippy overflowing.  BUT, the water goes to the emergency overflow too quickly and doesn't go through the batting.  Bummer.  I'm going to try something else tomorrow. 

I also started putting rocks back into the falls, then taking them out again and adding foam, waiting for it to cure and trying again.  It doesn't help that it was 112* today and I got kind of weak and weird and decided I was approaching heat exhaustion.  I went in the pool and then in the house in the AC for awhile and made myself drink a bunch of water.  I feel ok tonight. 

Tomorrow we hope to put the skippy back together and finish the waterfall.  Also figure out what plants I want to return to the skippy. 

[happyoutsidegirl]

It doese sound like your busy! I know it's gana look great when your done! don't forget more pix!!!

[Esther]

Jonna, I wonder if you have seen the mesh planting baskets that are slightly curved. For one thing, they fit the curved sides of the Skippy. But I only used them for that when I had 7 small pots with baby lilies in them. Anyway, take a mesh basket of some sort and put your filter media (quilt batting type)  in it and sit them under the drops of the waterfall when you need to clear up your water. As long as your basket is narrower than the spillway, even though they get clogged, the water has somewhere to go without leaving the stream sides. I put 2-3 in mine at times and boy overnight it is noticeablely cleaner. Of course it is a pain to rinse out the media but it does the job.

Last year I made a little pond----see picture. And it wasn't very clear. There were no fish so I didn't really care to fuss with it. This year I stole two scrubber pads from the Skippy and dropped them in the preform and it has been clear ever since.

But the skimmer/filter on the big pond has been filling/clogging up terribly quick. I ordered a box of 5 scrubber pads to add to the big Skippy and all of a sudden the filter isn't getting dirty so quick. So I guess the bio bugs are doing their job. I still scrape the bottom of the pond a couple of times a week. I have a small net with pretty tight mesh and it picks up the mulm really well.

I need to get in there and clip off the pads and dead flowers. That;'s part of the gunk down there.

[Jonna]

I haven't seen the mesh baskets with rounded sides, I've used the square ones and wedged them under the falls.  I may have to go back to that, rounded ones would sure fit in easier.  Where did you get them? 

Today did not end up with a working skippy.  I spent the morning in the pond making a mess!  I cut the lilies back a lot and spread them out in the pond.  I pushed all the gravel those bad boys have been pushing out of the lily baskets to a couple of spots, using my feet - I call it foot vacuuming. I will get in and try and scoop it up later.  In the process I stirred up all the muck and the water is getting really brown now with no filter and me in there mucking around.

We decided to try the skippy without anything in it as it seemed to me that the pump wasn't putting out water as fast as before.  That took hours because we found an air leak into the pipes, we tried a couple ways to fix it but only reduced it.  In the process though we could tell that the pump has really lost power.  Two years ago the blades clogged up with snail bits and the symptom was the same.  By the time we got that figured out we were both exhausted from the sun and the heat and decided to take the pump apart tomorrow.  I've got the falls working to test the channels we put in with foam and I've got batting and scrubbies in the spillway as the water is really brown.  I also dumped in a bunch of koi clay to help settle all the stuff I stirred up and drained 2 skippy loads of water out and refilled it. The fish seem ok, lots of water changes are keeping the water in line.   

Another day and not half done.  Still... a hot day mucking in a pond is better than most other days 

[Esther]

Sounds like you got a lot done though. It will feel good when it's all conquered.

Here's a link to a picture of what I was talking about. Maybe they are too big to fit your waterfall drops. I had used some wire ones too that are used in homes. They probably could be bent to fit if you wanted.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=5519&Ntt=baskets&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=62728&Nty=1

[Jonna]

We got a lot done today.  It's been cooler than normal, only 102* today, and dry. 

First we took the pump apart.  We had to do this 2 years ago as well, that time it was full of ground up snails.  This time there were some snails and a lot of just pond gunk.




We picked all the gunk out with a file and cleaned it with a wire brush.  We also poured some vinegar on it and scrubbed the calcification off.  Only 2 of the 6 impeller slots were open, the rest were clogged with stuff.  No wonder it seemed that the pump wasn't putting out as much water.




Once it was clean, we sprayed it with some silicon and put it all back together. 



We tested it for leaks (yay! no leaks) and it is really pumping some water now. 

There are 2 major things I'd do differently if I were building this pond today.  #1 is to put the pump below water level so I could use gravity to feed it and #2 is to put a settling tank or some other kind of mechanical filtration BEFORE the pump.  Right now all I have is the basket in the prime pot, not enough.  I can't easily add more because the pump is pulling from the bottom of the pond, which is 4+ feet below it.  Plus, I don't really have room to dig that big a hole.  Maybe someday.


(cont. in next post)

[Jonna]

Next, we put the skippy back together.  Here are the levels I use, for those interested in what's inside a skippy.

Here it is empty, the water comes in from the top and shoots out the bottom in 2 directions.  The thing on the wall is what I call a weir, this is the new one which is a little different than the one I built before.  The water in my skippy goes out through a 4" pvc pipe, in order to install it, it had to be several inches below the lip of the skippy.  I wanted the water level to be higher than the bottom of the pipe so I build these weirs that lets me raise the water level in the skippy.  The last one had holes about 2 inches below the top on the back.  This one has holes in the bottom, I'm not sure yet if I like that and I may add some more holes on the back.  It raises the water level to the half way mark on the pipe.  It's attached to the wall with Great Stuff foam.



The first layer is the Savio tape, I saved this from before and cleaned it up with pond water.  I kept it wet and hope that the bacteria are still on it so the pond doesn't have to cycle again.  I try to leave the tape a lot of room so the swirl of the water will keep it from compressing and keep a good flow through it.



The next level is my funky looking pvc frame that rests on the ledge in the skippy. 



On top of the frame goes a layer of light grid from Home Depot. 



Then a layer of medium density Matala mat. 



Another pvc frame on the next ledge up.



Another layer of light grid.  It doesn't show here but I also put 2 air stones on top of the grid.  Last time I had them at the bottom but I think they clogged too easily from the residue.




And a final layer of small density Matala mat.  I forgot to take a picture of it before we added water.  You can see the bubbles coming up from the air stones.



I also put some more rocks on the waterfall, I only need a few more on the left.  While we had the waterfall apart, I bought a fake rock at Home Depot and cut it in half.  I have a half on either side of the waterfall to hide the vertical drop of the liner, they go about 4 inches into the water.  I spray foamed them to the liner.  I had managed to cover that vertical drop fairly well with hanging vines but I like this better.  The rock was a little too light so I sprayed it a bit with flat black paint.  I think it will disappear well once the vines and the mint recover from a week without the waterfall.

This isn't a great picture, the sun was setting and right on the falls by the time we got done and I took the picture. You can see the grey foam above the half a fake rock at the water level.  I'm going to get the mint to grow over that.


Here are some pics of the fish.  They have come through this week of no skippy just fine. 





and a picture of Roy the Koi and a Wakin

[Esther]

What a lot of work Jonna. Does your tape lay right on the bottom of the Skippy? I don't have anything on the bottom. I have a grid down on that low edge and my media lays on that.

[happyoutsidegirl]

Wow, I'm pooped out now just reading all that you did! Great job!

[miguynmkoi]

You sure did a marvelous job.  Like Debbie I have to says WOW!  I know it's early but I sure need a tall drink after all the work you did. 

Bet you're glad to get that over and done with before you migrate.

[Jonna]

Yes, the tape is on the bottom.  Honestly, I can't remember what order it was all in last time so we just winged it.  As I recall, the first time we put it together the tape was above a level of light grate and it wound down into the grate and was a pain to get out.  Anyway, we put it on the bottom this time and we'll see if it comes out the drain when I open it.  That was something I didn't think about until after we had it all together   

I didn't do anything with the pond today, we had to get some papers notarized and then we spent hours at WalMart, Home Depot and Costco.  Most of the stuff we got was boring but I did pick up a few small plants at Home Depot to see if they survive in the skippy.  Some begonias, a yellow hibiscus, and some 'no name' plants, one of them looks like what we call a 'lipstick plant' but I don't really know.  I hate it when the tag just says Tropical plant and all the care instructions are the same no matter what the plant looks like, they are cheaper though when they come that way 

We are getting close to leaving for Mexico, all sorts of things keep popping into my head that I still need to do.  I've got to write them down or they keep me awake all night.  Last night I finally got up and wrote down, Frontline, Crocs and Peanut butter!  The first 2 are cheaper in the US and I've never found chunky peanut butter in Mexico, they have the smooth kind but not chunky.  We're going to be gone much longer this year, we usually don't head south until November but, because of the new house, we're planning to leave in a couple weeks and we won't be back until April or May.

I forgot to post a picture I took last week of the first bloom from my night bloomer, can't remember the name right now and don't have my notes in here.  Anyway, at first I didn't notice it and then I was walking by the pond about 10pm and realized it was weird that a lily was open.  I was thrilled, I've never gotten to see it bloom.

[happyoutsidegirl]

Wow, she is gorgious!! So how far off tell your new place is liveable down there?

[Esther]

THat night bloomer almost glows.

[Kittyzee]

Wow Jonna, all that work makes me tired just looking at it!  It does make one wonder why we do this ponding stuff sometimes doesn't it?  I mean it's hard labor, smelly, and strenuous but the payoffs we get are huge, I think....  

Anyway, I don't have a skippy but use a biofilter.  I think it's a little on the same order but not quite the large production.  It keeps the water clear in my little pond.

Thanks for sharing the pics and don't forget to check in with us when you're in Mexico and of course pics of the house.....     

[miguynmkoi]

Your nightbloomer looks magnifico!  Makes all the hard work worth it...almost

[Jonna]

Thanks guys.  Yes, I think the work is worth it.  I get such pleasure from just sitting by the pond, especially in the evenings, and watching the fish. 

I wish I knew how long it would be until the house is ready, I keep telling myself one year from start of construction.  I hope that is longer than it will really take but if I keep saying that to myself I won't get so impatient.  It's hard to guess though, it is major work and it would probably be faster to build a new house.  But, I love the old walls and the tile and I'm hoping most of it will be a fun and enjoyable project.  I'm just anxious to get started now.

[Jerry]

Great and informative post Jonna.  My set up is the same.  I sure will benefit by your experience!

thanks