Author Topic: Green Algea (Read 3031 times)

William Young · « **on:** April 13, 2008, 07:25:22 PM »

Hello All;
I have not been back here since last year.
Some might remember me from last fall by saying I am looking after a small pond for my two sister-in-laws in town and I had a bad algae problem. The gold fish wintered well and about three weeks ago I caught them and put them in a container of pond water and drained the pond and thoroughly flushed everything down with a pressure hose and kept pumping it out until the water and rocks etc were all nice and clean. Then I put the filter in and fresh water and put the fish back in. I told the local pet store about the algae problem last year and he sold me a liquid advanced algae destroyer . Then this spring he said I will have to use his Laguna Phosphate control as well as the algae destroyer to prevent algae .
It is a small pond about 8' x 10' and only about a foot and a half deep in the center and tapering off to ground level all around. I have estimated it to be approx 400 gallons ? I have been treating it for that amount with those two products. For the first couple weeks the water was so sparkling clear I thought I had it made.
Now, in the last week the algea is coming back with avengance and I have no idea how to control it.
We were discussing just today whether or not we should just fill it all in with rocks and dirt and plant a lawn on it because it seems like it is going to be way too high a maintenance thing for what it is worth . Those additives are very expensive and I was reluctant to use "chemicals" but they told me they are not chemicals but just addatives and will not harm the fish. There are only about 6 or 8 goldfish and a couple subunkins in there
I would really like to keep it going but the algea is making it become a burdon rather than a pleasure. .
I hope some experienced ponders can help me with this problem.

Here is a picture of it from last fall

W.Y.

Double S · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2008, 07:29:17 PM »

My pond gets algae every spring. Once the plants give it some coverage from sun.....it clears up on its own WITHOUT chemicals nor additives.

If it's the fine green soup algae, not the string type, I add some extra filter pads in the skimmer and clears up in a couple days.

Bonnie · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2008, 08:01:02 PM »

Hi William, curious if the algae is on the pond sides, free floating making the water green or a stringy type/string algae?

First, I'm not familiar with what you added to your pond but it sounds like indeed it is a type of chemical. Before you added the Phosphate Control did anyone test your water to know if you needed this?

Also if I may add, cleaning out a pond completely does nothing because a pond has to cycle and this takes time and patience.. Also sparkling clear water does not always mean healthy water, algae on the sides is good algae so you don't want to get rid of it!

Curious if you have some type of filter because there are many different DIY filters that can be very inexpensive to make and help keep a clean healthy pond with little maintenance...

Hang in there, things can and will get better!

William Young · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2008, 08:04:29 PM »

Thanks.
It is the stringy stuff that keeps surfacing and I skim it off but there is also fine stuff forming that is clinging to the rocks . I am fearfull that it will get worse before it gets better and it's no fun if I have to clean filters every day like I did last fall. I have two aerators going that I used for keeping a hole in the ice open in the pond all winter . They are bubbling from the bottom up 24 hours a day . Is it possible I have too much air in the water and maybe it is helping the algae grow ? . Should I leave those areators in now or take them out. ? .

Another question ? The fish have not been fed since last fall when the water went down to 40 degrees. They are still in a slight dormant stage but can see them getting more active as the water warms up. The water was about 55 degrees today with our warmest day so far this year. When should I start feeding them again ? How do they survive with no food for that long ? Do they eat "some" algae to survive?

How about snails ? will they control algae and stay in the pond or would they just travel over the edges and leave ?

Someone locally told me to get some algae eaters fish but they are very expensive and I doubt if they would have any effect on that much algae. I have a feeling they are more suited to indoor aquariums .

W.Y.

Bonnie · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2008, 08:30:28 PM »

William I googled Laguna Phosphate control and found that this is beneficial bacteria which definately will not hurt anything other than your wallet.
(Some people just wait until the filter/pond cycles instead of adding this)

Can you tell us about your pond filter?

The algae surfacing sounds like String Algae, because you say it is surfacing.. the other fine forming/clinging to the rocks sounds like you carpet/ GOOD algae.

Algae Eaters and Snails? No

If you wish to start feeding your fish when water temps stay above 55, feed LIGHTLY in the beginning.

William Young · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2008, 09:06:17 PM »

Thanks for the response and great help.

The pump is the type that fits in the bottom of a pail . I have a fine screen over it and then filled it to within a few inches from the top with very fine gravel that was recomemded by a ponder at the feed and pet store. It has a tube that comes straight up for the fountain and another one that a hose attaches to at the bottom and feeds the waterfall.
So far it has not started to get a layer of algae on the top of the fine gravel in the pail so I have not had to put fine filters on top of that. Last year I used two white batten filters about an inch thick . My wife is a quilter and I used that material. They collected a lot of algae and I would rinse the top one out in a separate pail of pond water and then rotate it with the one under it. I was doing that almost every day and I was hoping I would not have to go though that again this year. I am 72 this coming week and I am just a young 'un compared to my two SIL's that I am helping out with their pond. I don't mind doing it at all. I actually enjoy it as another one of my many hobbies . If I can get the algae problem under control I will enjoy it more but we really don't want to spend a lot of money on expensive filters or pumps other expensive means of maintaining a small pond like that .
W.Y.

barb · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2008, 08:57:44 AM »

That's a pretty pond! I have a small pond too, and I use Microbe Lift. It's a natural product that clears the water, it's not chemicals. I know a lot of people swear by plants and just waiting it out, but neither cleared my water; only Microbe Lift works for me. My fish and plants are healthy, too.

JoshS · « **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2008, 09:04:55 AM »

1- Stop using the Algae Destroyer. It is a chemical algaecide and has to be used continuously to keep the algae from growing. It is a band aid to cover up the problem. The phosphate remover is fine...phosphate is often a cause for excessive algae growth.

2- Make sure your expectations are realistic...this is a pond...there will be algae. A pond without algae is unnatural and unhealthy. Cloudy green water and gobs of floating algae are indicators that things are out of whack. A short fuzzy or slimy layer on the rocks and liner is healthy. That layer is alive with not only good algae, but beneficial bacteria and other good bugs. When you drained and washed the rocks, you destroyed this good growth. It will take time for it to redevelop and balance things out again. 6-8 weeks is not unusual and the cooler the temp, the longer it takes. It very likely will get worse before it gets better. Whatever you do, do not drain the pond or scrub/wash the rock and liner!

3- I don't see any plants in the pond. Plants are a key component in a clear, healthy pond. Algae needs 3 things to live - water, sun light, and nutrients. Limit one or more and you will not have an algae problem. You can't get rid of the water, so that leaves light and nutrients to deal with. Plants can take care of both. They will cover the surface of the water and block out the light and they will absorb excess nutrients from the water, starving out the algae. Some plants are more helpful than others. Water lilies are excellent for shade. Water hyacinths and water lettuce serve double purpose...they are floating plants, so they shade the water plus they draw all of their nutrients directly from the water. Submerged plants are also excellent for using excess nutrients. Anacharis and Hornwort are two common types.

4- The bubblers are beneficial...they won't encourage algae.

If this was my pond, I would not add any more additives (bacteria additives are ok), I would add a bunch of plants, and then not touch the pond for a month. It will probably get worse before it gets better, but it has to go through the cycle to balance itself out.

Bonnie · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2008, 09:13:37 AM »

Hi again William,
Good advice above and any possibility of changing your filter?
Quilt Batting is great but as you are finding it clogs very easily and requires alot of maintenance.
In the pond filters can also be a pain and very heavy to lift out of the pond to maintain.

You might want to check this forum for examples of filters and here are a couple of links for very easy DIY filters and also look for trickle towers using strawberry pots.

http://pixelriver.tripod.com/Filter/filter.htm
(really like the basics of this one plus it isn't an eyesore and doesn't need to be hidden)
http://www.skippysstuff.com/minime.htm

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2008, 09:27:15 AM »

First of all don't give up on ponding! I have a 550 gallon pond. I agree with Bonnie, Barb, and Josh

Every Spring green pea soup algae and string algae return for a short while. This year parrot feather took over and the string algae seems to have almost disappear. For pea soup I just use the poly-quilt batten under the water return above the waterfall and it catches everything and really cleans the water well and it's easy to change. Made sure that the water return does not deviate out of the pond and replace the small squares of batting when it's full (white batting becomes gross green black) about once every 3 days. Really polishes the water!

Algae carpet is good stuff even the fish eat when they are fed by you. Snails don't make a dent in algae but they do love eating tender lily pads

Clean out the filter with only filtered/ non-chlorinated water otherwise you kill the good bacteria build up (which takes forever to come back) and save a bit of the goop (a coating) in the filter because it is filled with the good stuff. I use Microbe Lift only when the beneficial bacteria working in the filter is on vacation.

Nothing magical, nothing fancy, just a little patience. I learned here, "the less you fuss, the more you enjoy." Enjoy William!

emm · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2008, 09:32:56 AM »

Hi William,

My pond too has a floating bubbly green algae as well as string algae at this time of year. Actually the string algae grows really well under the ice. I scooped out whatever was floating on top of the water a couple of weeks ago, we've had so many overcast, cool days that it hasn't grown much since but I expect it will take off again with this week's warmer temperatures. If I were to scoop out a bucket of water it would be clear. Is your water clear or does it get that "pea soup" look? If your water remains fairly clear you don't have any big problems. I don't concern myself with the algae that coats the lily pots and sides. It is very short and I think it gives the pond a more natural look.

Also, if I am moving plants about or disturbing things in some way the sediment on the bottom get suspended in the water and can take several hours to clear. If I've done a lot of mucking around I sometimes put some quilt batting on the water fall itself. As you know it will collect a lot of stuff. Not sure how easy yours is to get at. I know that you are supposed to use pond water to clean the batting but I just rinse it off with the hose which uses chlorinated city water. I feel that I have enough of the beneficial bacteria attached to all the various surfaces in the pond that it is not worth the hassle to rinse with pond water.

I wonder if you can easily put a pre-filter in front of the intake port of your filter. I had a home made set-up that functioned like that but I replaced my pump last year and it came with a pre-filter that keeps out the big stuff. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of my old set-up which did a good job of filtering out the fines. If you have a Laguna pump you may be able to buy a pre-filter for it. My new pump is like these: http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/powerjetpumps/pjet300a.php?link=1401
I have seen Laguna filter attachments sold separately. Not sure if this would be any easier for you or not. If you have to drag the pump bucket over from the centre of your pond each time you need to rinse the filter that is probably quite a nuisance. I was thinking a pre-filter near the edge of the pond might be easier to manage. Stay away from any of the sponge type filters though, they seem to clog up just looking at the water.

Another thought. If your waterfall is easily/safely accessible could you put in a small reservoir at the top and have the hose discharge into that? Would that be an easier spot to have some filtration?

I find that when the waterlilies really get going and cover the water surface that the algae is out-competed. Did your waterlily get big enough to help with that last year?

Sure hope you can sort this out so that all can enjoy the pond with a minimum of work.
emm

Ruthie · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2008, 09:44:36 AM »

All good advice here....and I have to put int a thumbs up for the trickle filter. They really work! Last year I made the mistake of removing too many of my hyacinths (my lilies were were all small and didn't provide enough surface coverage) and we had a pea soup algae. Per the advice of this forum, I ran a barrel filter with quilt batting and set up a trickle tower. It took a couple weeks, but the water was once again crystal clear.

William Young · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2008, 12:56:18 PM »

Thank you all for the great help and responses. I thought I had replied earlier today before I went to town but I obviously only previewed and didn't actually submit my message . DUH ! ! . . . one of those senior moments. .

Late last summer when I first started ponding and it was all totally new to me it was suggested by the good folks here to get some water plants. I got three from Walmart fish department from their aquariums that were small and were like blades of grass in a bundle and grow completely under the water so I weighted them down with a little piece of string attached to a small stone .
I went to the only plant nursery back then that has any water plants which is 120 km from home but it was too late in the season and they only had half dead and sick looking water plants left over so I didn't buy any . They said they would have more in next May. I will be going to the city on the 23rd of this month on other business and will see if they got some in early .

For the ones here that asked if the water is green pea soupy . . no it isn't . It is very clear from top to bottom .

I read somewhere in a brochre that a pond needs to be covered by a minumum of 2/3 of the surface with plants in order for them to be effective . I ran that past my S-I-L's and they said they would like to see the fish rather than looking at a pond covered with water plants.

When I do get some plants , do they actually grow and spread out ? Do they need to be thinned out occasionally to prevent them from covereing the whole surface of the pond ?
One more item of curiosity . . . I have made a nylon mesh skimmer over a coat hanger bent round and attached to a broom handle . It works very well for skimming off grass clippings that sometimes get on the surface when cutting the lawn and debris from neighbors trees and even bees and other insects that are sometimes floating on the water and of course string algea .. If I put a bunch of plants in there, will that not hamper my being able to skim off unwanted stuff ?

Annette
Is that nice green plant cover you have on your pond what is called Parrot Feather ? I have never seen a plant that looks anything like that. Not sure if that will be available around here or not when the water plants are available for this years new stock. It that as effective as water hyasinths (sp) ? I don't know what they look either .

W.Y.

JoshS · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2008, 01:51:39 PM »

Hyacinths, lettuce, and parrot's feather will spread over the water fairly quickly and yes, it is likely that you will need to thin them out once they take off. Water lilies will spread out, but they will stay contained in their pot...for a year or two anyway.

As far as seeing the fish, once they associate people with food they will congregate at the edge of the pond whenever you are nearby.

If they are dead-set against plants, you don't have many options. Beefing up your filter system is about all you can do, except to rely on chemicals. Or you can load up on submerged plants. Enough of those will do the trick, but the fish can hide in them, too.

Any chance you can convince your SIL's to let you handle the pond for a month to see what a difference you can make??

William Young · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2008, 05:22:33 PM »

Thanks Josh.
I talked it over with the SIL's and explained all the good advice I got here and the importance of plants and they are willing to put a bunch in. I just have to wait now until they are available here.
I am looking after that pond 95% myself. All they do is an occasional skimming with the skimmer that I made to keep the top clear of debris and I asked them to skim off any green string algea if it surfaces before I visit . .

Quote

Water lilies will spread out, but they will stay contained in their pot...for a year or two anyway.

I did not realize that they were in pots . I only imagined (because I didn't know) that they floated on top . How about the rest of the plants you mentioned ? Are they potted as well ? What keeps the roots in the pots . . some small stones or gravel ?

You people are going to get me all clued in yet

Sorry for so many questions but you people sure have been helpful to this rookie ponder.
W.Y.

miguynmkoi · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2008, 07:44:50 PM »

No question is bad. You need to know and that's what many of us have done and I still ask or am grateful someone thought of asking.

My parrot's feather started out as 3 small bunches tied with string and just laid on the water. The tied ends are anchored to the sides of the pond by laying the end over my bog area and also tucking it into the waterfall. No soil or potting necessary. The roots grow out of the parrot's feather at leaf junctions (is that the right word?) that are in the water - see the right side of pic under plant. Very easy to trim, very similar to watercress stems. Just bend and snap, toss into the compost.

William Young · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2008, 07:52:36 PM »

Thanks Annette.
Looks great and easy to maintain. Hope I can find some of that.
W.Y.

JoshS · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2008, 07:53:07 AM »

Hyacinths and lettuce just float.

Parrot's Feather does best if it is potted or at least anchored miguynmkoi said.

Water lilies need to be potted. Some people have success potting in gravel, but I feel they do best in top soil or clay.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2008, 10:05:11 AM »

Hi William, Your getting some great advice. Don't ya just love it here? One thing I could suggest is mini Lillies. they are great for the smaller ponds and very hardy. They won't take up quit as much room as full size ones.

William Young · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2008, 11:28:43 AM »

Thanks Debbie and yes, they are a very helpful bunch of members here.

emm · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2008, 11:44:44 AM »

Hi William,

Not sure where you are located but if you live in one of the colder zones you may find that the parrot's feather does not fill in as much as Annette's does. I have had parrot's feather in my pond and it will overwinter when dropped to the deep end for the winter but most of the ponds that I have seen in my central Ontario region have not had really lush parrot's feather. Your pond is shallower than some so your water may warm up enough for a nice display. It has done quite well in some of my barrel type ponds although for me it always has string algae growing in association with it and I just don't bother with it anymore.

Water hyacinth does well here, water lettuce less so although I have a friend whose pond is in full shade and the water lettuce is about the only floater that does anything for her.

I have a miniature hardy water lily N. Helvola with a 2 foot spread in my pond that does extremely well. It is a very prolific bloomer with small yellow flowers.

emm

LeeAnne151 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2008, 10:13:09 AM »

There is a Canadian plant exchange section to this forum. Water plants are very prolific and members often have extras for newbies for postage only. Check there before buying expensive plants. It is early in the season though.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2008, 12:23:12 PM »

Good idea LeeAnne!

William Young · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2008, 02:14:51 PM »

Thanks a bunch Leeanne.
That is very good news.
I phoned the nursery 120 KM away and they said they will have their stock in around the first of May because danger of frost is practically over around here by then .I am afraid to think of what they will be selling them for and they said I would have to come and see them to get a price.

I would be delighted to get some from anyone for the price of postage or even at a very reasonable price.

I live in a border town just 6 miles from the USA/Canada border. I have a PO box in both countries and I order a lot of my woodworking supplies from USA and have them sent to my US post box. I am over there about once a week because gas just inside the USA border is 31 cents a liter less than it is here in Canada because of BC's high tax structure.
I just now phoned Canada customs to find out about bringing plants into Canada . He said most are allowed but some are not and the only requirements that they need is the name of the plants and the State that they are coming from before ordering them and they check it out on their computer and give me the OK on the ones that are allowed so there are no surprises when they arrive . So if anyone has any to share from USA, please PM me with the name of the plants and the State and I will inquire about that. It might also help out anyone that lives in any border town all across Canada that might have concerns about getting plants from USA into Canada.
Thanks again for all the wonderful help on this site.
W.Y.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #24 on:** April 16, 2008, 03:42:09 PM »

William I may have already asked you and forgot

but what town and what border do you live by? I live about20 miles from the BC border near Ossoiouse (sp) Okanogan Valley!

William Young · « **Reply #25 on:** April 16, 2008, 04:25:24 PM »

Debbie.
I am not all that far away from you. I have been through the Okanogan valley many times when I was younger and am familiar with your area.
I am just outside of Creston, BC which is 6 miles north of the USA border .
The border crossing is called Rykerts but the one horse village (I think the horse left

) right inside the USA border is called Porthill Idaho. It is right at the very top of the Idaho panhandle. It is a small border crossing and is only open from 7.00AM until 11.00PM daily.
The post office and gas station are a stones throw just inside the border which makes it very convenient for me .
W.Y.

happyoutsidegirl · « **Reply #26 on:** April 16, 2008, 06:05:00 PM »

So you are much farther east, I haven't been there but know about where it's at. If ever you get over here to the Okanogan please look me up.

William Young · « **Reply #27 on:** April 16, 2008, 06:41:55 PM »

Thanks Debbie.
Same here . . the coffee's always on . .

W.Y.

frloplady · « **Reply #28 on:** April 16, 2008, 07:57:40 PM »

If you get a lot of string algae in the pond you can also use a toilet bowl brush attached to a longer pole and use that to catch the stuff. Just a twist or two and pull it out.

That stuff just shows up and as long as the pond isn't overstocked/overfed it usually goes away. But don't do a scrub cleaning again

William Young · « **Reply #29 on:** April 16, 2008, 09:29:38 PM »

Earlier in this thread I had said this .

Quote

I just now phoned Canada customs to find out about bringing plants into Canada . He said most are allowed but some are not and the only requirements that they need is the name of the plants and the State that they are coming from before ordering them and they check it out on their computer and give me the OK on the ones that are allowed so there are no surprises when they arrive . So if anyone has any to share from USA, please PM me with the name of the plants and the State and I will inquire about that. It might also help out anyone that lives in any border town all across Canada that might have concerns about getting plants from USA into Canada.
Thanks again for all the wonderful help on this site.

Then a very kind person contacted me from USA and offered to send me some plants. So with the names of the plants I called Canada Customs again and tried to get some more information. Apparently the person I had talked to previously was not on the ball LOL.

So i had to contact the person that wanted to send the plants and below is my answer.

Sorry if I misled anyone with my previous message about this.

I called Canada customs and both him and I with him on his computer and me on mine and using phones at the same time tried to get permission for bringing them into Canada and each time we came up with a dead search . So he gave me a number for head office and I was told that the only way plants can be brought into Canada is to have a Government Botanical Inspection Agency to come to the senders address at their expense and inspect the plants and fill out all the necessary forms to be able to send any. No way I want to put anyone through all that for a few plants.
What a bummer but now I know that I will have to stay within the limits of Canada to get some plants.

W.Y.