ferns in the sub tropical garden

[Cedric]

Ok here is one on my files. Its the tradesman's gate. I just wanted to show you what you can do with ferns. i took a small piece and tied it to the top of the gate post, and left it alone. In two years it looks like this. It's a local fern, I took a cutting just down at the river behind us. It likes growing in dappled shade on large boulders in leaf litter. It will also happily sit on a branch, where I have planted quite a few.
A bit like a birds nest fern.

If it doesn't get enough light it will eventually fade, sending out weak long floppy fronds that will get damaged in any storms.

[Cedric]

Told you Im useless with this damned camera Wonder how this happened er fishy fish

My apologies in advance for any stiff necks. Tiger balm works like magic.

[Jerry]

It happens to me all the time.
I will post my ferns here tomorrow.  Newly planted off of divisions.

[Cedric]

Look forward to seeing them. I have many many ferns, many also just arrive on the wind like the Asplenium. Not sure which Asplenium it is, its not nidus or australasica, maybe someone here knows?
They grow in the forest also on trees and rocks. Very easy to mount, just stick wire through the base and tie around whatever you choose, a tree limb etc. best use a small one, more stability and they grow fast.
This one I have in a large pot weighed down with stones (wind), its on my office sun terrace, keeps me cool looking at it, my green garden. I have a few other varieties one with lovely curly edged leaves. You can see they grow huge, not sure when they stop. This one is four years old already. But I have much bigger ones on the ground.
Hope the pixle is the right way around, I'll try and fix the other one.

[Jonna]

Wow! That's gorgeous!  Now I'm sure you get more rain than we do, the dry season here (right now) is so absolute that ferns start looking really dried out.  They come back when the rains start but I wonder if that keeps them from getting as big.   If I want to keep the bromeliads and orchids looking good in the dry season I'll have to water them.  They survive just fine, they are native here, but they dry up and shrink for several months.

[Sonny]

Very pretty Cedric!  Your garden pictures are a real treat.

I've never had much luck with ferns when I try to grow them.  When I don't try they do fine.     There are many that have just shown up in my yard too.  Arriving on the wind as you say.

[Cedric]

Wow! That's gorgeous!  Now I'm sure you get more rain than we do, the dry season here (right now) is so absolute that ferns start looking really dried out.  They come back when the rains start but I wonder if that keeps them from getting as big.   If I want to keep the bromeliads and orchids looking good in the dry season I'll have to water them.  They survive just fine, they are native here, but they dry up and shrink for several months.

Aren't they just. Mother nature may take all the credit with these.

Jonna our winters are bone dry, not a drop, the trees don't all loose their leaves however, only the ones that burst into flower mid winter, for example the Erytrina's and Ceiba pentandra or Kapok trees. The rest tend to change not loose leaves when the rain starts.

I grow quite a lot that needs water in winter, but to be honest after awhile things adapt a bit, more to my loathing of watering the entire property than anything else. Also I'm not fond of miles and miles of irrigation drip. But yes bromeliads I like to just keep with a little pool of water in the centre when I remember, but they are very forgiving and the selection is not even that critical. The ferns I hardly touch, just getting a spray if I am passing.
The key is to use as many local plants as possible as well, especially as the foundation. And plants from a similar climate. if something lags I let it except for a few speciality species like the water lilies hibiscus and palms. I give things +- three seasons to settle, unless it really tries my patience then it's turfed out sooner. Fair dues.

With stream water I am lucky, the orchids love a sudden surprise spray, except for most in fact that I have here that wont flower unless kept bone dry through winter. Those that like water like the untreated water very much. To be honest winter is the easy part, time to relax. Insect numbers are insignificant, drainage is no problem fungus rot mildew, nothing to spoil just relaxing.

Sonny I agree with you there, the less fuss the better. Not sure of what zone you're in, but I was just thinking how I used to garden in Northern Europe. Much the same. And even all the affects you can see in a tropical garden you can achieve very easily in a freezing cold one. Ferns for example are very easy and there are some magnificent hardies. If you mount one on a post like I do here just use a wide shallow pot instead and a giant shuttlecock hardy species, looks splendid.

 

[LeeAnne151]

Those are gorgeous. I love ferns. There are many native ferns in the Pacific Northwest though they don't look very tropical.

[Cedric]

LeeAnne Blechnum spicant was one of my favourites, completely hardy. Makes a very lush tropical look, and it grows wild in Washington state. I would like very much to see more of your native ferns. I've never been to Washington state.

[tinkster]

very pretty!

tinkster

[miguynmkoi]

Admire ferns very much.  Can also kill them easily  :'(

[Jonna]

We too have majestic Ceiba (Ceiba pentandra) trees (it is the sacred tree of the Maya, they say it's roots reach into the underworld and it's branches into the heavens), I looked up the Erytrina and believe it is here as well called a Colorín, the Flamboyán's (delonix regia) are in full bloom now and the Lluvia de Oro (Laburnum anagyroides or Golden Chain tree I think in English?) are also blooming.  We are in the middle of the dry season, it will start to rain in the evenings around mid June.  We do get some rain in the winters, although only occasional and watering is necessary.  Our real dry season is only for a couple of months, April to June, at this time the humidity drops, hot winds blow and there are a lot of fires as they still burn the jungle to plant when the rains start.

The latest talk among gardeners here is that the water in the basin of the bromeliads, which a lot of people collect, is a perfect breeding ground for the aegypti (sp?) mosquito which is the one that carries Dengue fever.  Some people are getting rid of all of their bromeliads.  I'm wondering if moss tucked into the base covering the water will keep the mosquitoes out?  Any thoughts?

[Cedric]

What a nice story about the Ceiba pentandra, I can quite imagine, the flowers are spectacular. Ours are very large like a giant tulips and come in a few colours, ranging from deep deep orange to red through to off pastille orange and white. Ours are now sending down snow drifts of white cotton, floating all over the place. Our Delonix regia is also in full flower, I love these. There are some spectacular colour morphs in Thailand too.

As far as mosquitoes go you/they are absolutely right. The day time mossy with the zebra stripes on the legs, Aedes aegypti love them and they are the species that carry Dengue fever. We have Dengue here every once and awhile but it's not endemic, and usually people pick it up while travelling outside the territory. However we have had outbreaks in the past.
There is no way to stop them other than to use insecticide spray on the bromeliads. In summer with the high rainfall the problem is not so acute as the cups are constantly being rinsed out, least three times a week. Any stagnant water, even the flower bracts of heliconia make perfect ponds for these nasties.
You really will have minimal problems if you keep that ventilation going, avoiding stagnant air circulation. Nice wide pathways and gaps between planting, tall shade trees rather than low ones, keep areas between dense planting open.

They hate breezes and sunshine preferring dank moist shady still areas. And always in any water feature no matter how small have fish. Another tip is choose bromeliads that like a fair bit of sunshine, and most seem to if the humidity is high enough. Let the mossy boil in their little pond pots.

[Jonna]

I hadn't thought of insecticidal soap although re-spraying them all the time would be a pain.  I'll have to think about this more.  I do intend to use my ponds as a sort of attractive nuisance in that the mosquitoes will see them as a wonderful spot to lay their eggs and the fish will take care of it.  From others I've heard that one water feature with fish really reduces the number of mosquitoes.  Now, whether that is the regular, dusk preferring mosquito that is just a pest here but not dangerous or the stripped leg devil that bites in the daytime and carries dengue - I don't know.   I am pretty good at always spraying at least my legs before going out, particularly if we are going to a restaurant.   They love hiding under tables in restaurants.  Our biggest problem with mosquitoes is that they ride into the house on the dogs.  We've taken to wiping the dogs down with Bounce sheets before letting them in if we are in a high mosquito area. 

[tammie]

We have the dengue mosquitos here too.  I sprinkle "mosquito bits" into the cups, maybe once a month.
Tammie

[Jonna]

Tammie, that's a great idea.  You just break up those rings?  I have to look for those down here, I'm sure they are here I just haven't looked.  That would be great as it would last for awhile whether it rained or not. 

[tammie]

You can break up the dunks, but they do sell the "bits".  It's the same company, and it's in a shaker jar.
Tammie

[Cedric]

Yep those rings are quite a good idea. I used them for awhile, but the dogs keep drinking from the smaller water features and the shop said it wasn't a good idea as it might be toxic long term for them. Also it depends on how many bromeliads you have whether it's practical or not. They will also happily breed in banana leaf, palms just anywhere where there are small cups of water.
The government here embarks on annual spraying, but it makes very little impact in the national park where I live. One thing I have noticed is that tiny frogs lay eggs in the cups, not sure if the tadpoles eat larva or not though. The biggest problem is that they are day time mossies so difficult to avoid like the others. The others only come out dawn and dusk.

Really the only practical way to avoid is to make sure you don't create ideal habitats for them, or to spray. Choose high ground to build your house, seating areas that sort of thing. I don't even use repellant any more. I know exactly where in my garden they love to be, in these areas I thinned out the vegetation and increased the sunlight, it works well.  

[LeeAnne151]

Blechnum spicant, Deer fern is one I don't have at the moment. I have killed several specimens. Most of my ferns are just now putting out their new fronds. I'll take pics when they look better.

Mosquito Dunks/Bits aren't supposed to hurt anything but mosquito larvae. I use them in all of my ponds without fish.

[Joyce]

When I repot my water lilies, now I add about a half cup of mosquito bits at the bottom of the pot.
It seeps slowly up and out of the pot all summer...and keeps 'innoculating' the pond all summer.
This includes container ponds. Saves a LOT of money because it seems to seep out all summer and doesn't get washed out by rains.
Not one of my pots that I used this technique in last year hatched mosquitos from spring through fall. 

The BT is not toxic to dogs or cats, or fish. 

BT is not a chemical, it is a live bacteria which disrupts the digestive system of mosquito larva, causing them to starve to death.
Has no effect on dogs, cats, or fish.
If anything, it will protect your dog against heartworm, cuz mosquitos spread heartworm.

http://www.summitchemical.com/view-products.aspx?id=7

http://www.summitchemical.com/products.aspx

And check out this, you could even tuck a mosuito dunk under the plant!
http://www.summitchemical.com/newlabels/BARLEY%20PLANTER%20SELL%20SHEET.pdf

[Cedric]

 I dont trust though. If it kills insects it isn't safe for dogs to drink indefinitely, or tadpoles (those which you want at least) and other creatures, the seller said it is not a good idea. Anyone use it with fish long term?

[Cedric]

And check out this, you could even tuck a mosuito dunk under the plant!
http://www.summitchemical.com/newlabels/BARLEY%20PLANTER%20SELL%20SHEET.pdf

That isn't a mosquito dunk? That's a clear water dunk. Pity they don't sink, the plant looks dizzy.

[Joyce]

Yes, I have been using Mosquito dunks, and bits, aka BT(i) products for over 20 years.
My fish, cats and dog are fine. Not to mention my pond is filled with tadpoles and frogs.
The seller is just covering his ass, cuz he is ignorant of his own merchandise.
If he had educated himself about Mosquito dunks and all BT(i) products, then he would have told you that it is safe for dogs, cats and fish.
It is safe for humans too!

By the way, it (Mosquito Dunks and/or bits) doesn't kill insects (blanket statement as in ALL insects ). It kills JUST aquatic mosquito larva.

And I didn't claim the floating barley planter was a mosquito dunk.
All I was saying it that you COULD put a mosquito dunk in it under the plant inside the planter, so the dunk could seep out into the pond.

[Jerry]

As you know our dry climate in S Cal makes mosquito problems virtually nonexistent

Very glad to say!

[Jonna]

I don't know Jerry.  I'm from SoCal and they always used to spray for mosquitoes plus out in Cat City, in the SoCal desert, there are mosquitoes and like other places there the health dept gives away mosquito fish for all ponds and water features and golf course lakes.  I've seen wigglers in buckets of water out there.  I think that you do have to consider mosquitoes but probably not the aedes as it is a tropical one and it is the only one that carries dengue.  Dengue, by the way, is the karmic pay back for slavery.  It originated along with the aedes mosquito in Africa and came to the new world in the bilge of slave ships. 

[Cedric]

Aedes seems to be pan-tropic.

Joyce my seller isn't covering his arse. The tablets or doughnut shaped things I bought don't say on the package safe. I was the one who asked. He told me rather err on the side of caution. It was one of those macrobiotic shops selling organic veg etc.

I have a packet right in front of me and it states clearly, Mosquito Dunks, Summit, made in the USA blah blah
" Safe for use in fish habitats flower pots.....bird baths roof gutters......rain barrels... animal watering troughs." All good and well, until you turn the package over.

Reverse side it says, Hazards to humans: avoid contact with eyes or open wounds, Environmental Hazards do not apply to drinking water reservoirs or drinking water receptacles where the water is intended for human consumption. First aid call poison control or doctor for treatment.
Going on to state "its a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with it's labelling". Ingredients " insecticidal toxins 10,31%. That will include all insects.

Hence my confusion. Believe me if its not safe for humans it certainly is not safe for any other mammals. Dogs or humans, amphibians or even fish. Amphibians and fish are at least 400% more sensitive than humans, and dogs and livestock about the same as us. So I asked. And was given good advice in my opinion.

[Joyce]

Then it is NOT the same stuff as sold here.
There are no chemical toxins in BT(i).
Like I have repeated over and over now, BT(i) is a live bacteria, not a toxin.

My cats, dogs, fish, frogs and tadpoles are all just fine.

[miguynmkoi]

When I repot my water lilies, now I add about a half cup of mosquito bits at the bottom of the pot.

Thanks Joyce!  Great advice for all water plants!  You'll need to add this to your well used here planting directions in the how-to section. 

Jerry, in my neighborhood we have mosquitoes as soon as the sun starts to set.  I get eaten alive  .  I must have "bulls eye's" on my ankles.  Knee hi's and long pants are a must unless I strategically place lit citronella oil lamps around the yard ahead of time.  We also live next to a creek that obviously does not have enough wildlife to snuff out the mosquitoes.  I know the pond is unsafe for the mosiquits 

Cedric, the first time I stayed at my BIL's home in Yuen Long (New Territories, HK) I didn't listen to his advice to use the AC while sleeping because I didn't feel it was necessary.  It was a cool, less humid winter night.  Wrong!  Next morning I looked like I had the measles or something!  Now when I visit I always use the AC and for my own sanity I have my own bed netting to camouflage the bull's eye    I don't have this problem in Hong Kong Island.  Thank goodness!

[Cedric]

Then it is NOT the same stuff as sold here.
There are no chemical toxins in BT(i).

Can someone please look on a packet and tell me who manufactures your Mosquito dunks? Maybe I can find them here. Ours are manufactured in the USA by Summit. These also have bacteria, but it states clearly 10.31% insecticide toxin as well, and toxic to humans. It's also got a patent no for the product so I am curious.

Some times products with quite low toxins (to mammals)are accumulative. Don't kill outright but build up, sometimes only doing damage late in life. I certainly hope it's not the same product. I'll take a picture of the pack and post.

[Sonny]

Here's a link to the product I have used:  http://www.summitchemical.com/view-products.aspx?id=8

The label (below) mention insecticidal toxins...
 

MOSQUITO DUNKS®
Kills Mosquitoes
Before They’re Old Enough To Bite! ®
ACTIVE INGREDIENT: Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies israelensis solids, spores and insecticidal toxins……………………………………………………………10.31%
INERT INGREDIENTS ……………………………………………………….89.69%
7000 Aedes aegypti (AA) International Toxic Units (ITU) per milligram primary powder (Dry weight basis). The percent active ingredient does not indicate product performance and potency measurements are not federally standardized.
EPA Registration No. EPA Establishment No.
6218-47 6218-MD-2
Safe For Use In Fish Habitats
Place In Containerized Standing
Water Wherever It Accumulates
Near the Household:
Flower Pots · Tree Holes · Bird Baths
Roof Gutters · Rain Barrels · Old Tires
Unused Swimming Pools
Animal Watering Troughs
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
CAUTION
SEE OTHER SIDE FOR MORE PRECAUTIONS
AND DIRECTIONS FOR USE
Hazard to Humans: Causes moderate eye irritation. Avoid contact with eyes or clothing. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling.
Environmental Hazards: Do not apply directly to treated, finished drinking water reservoirs or drinking water receptacles when the water is intended for human consumption.
FIRST AID
If in eyes: Hold eye open and rinse slowly and gently for 15-20 minutes.
Remove contact lenses, if present, after the first 5 minutes, then continue rinsing eye. Call poison control center or doctor for treatment advise.
STORAGE AND DISPOSAL
Do not contaminate water, food, or feed by storage or disposal.
Storage: Tightly close containers of unused DUNKS. Store in cool, dry well-ventilated place.
Disposal: Do not reuse empty carton or packaging material. Perforate of crush and discard carton according to local trash disposal regulations.
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.
MOSQUITO DUNKS® are formulated to release effective levels of Bti for a period of 30 days or more under typical environmental conditions. The floating action of the dunks will ensure that active material is released at the surface as well as gradually settle to the bottom.
These dunks may be used in all types of containerized mosquito breeding areas. To prevent dunks from being flushed out of certain treatment sites, they can be anchored using a string tied through the hole in the center or staked in place.
MOSQUITO DUNKS® can also be applied to dry areas which are known or suspected to become breeding sites when flooded, such as abandoned swimming pools, the dunks will float to the surface when flooding occurs and start releasing the active Bti material. Alternate wetting and drying will not reduce their effectiveness.
APPLICATION RATES
Mosquito Larvae:
Flooded larvae breeding sites: Use one (1) MOSQUITO DUNK® for up to 100 sq. ft. of surface area of containerized standing water, regardless of depth. In highly polluted water with a high organic content, the application rate may have to be increased to as much as four (4) times the normal dosage based upon evaluation by the user.
When larval populations are high, aquatic vegetation dense, or the water highly polluted at the time of dunks use, pre-treatment with SUMMIT MOSQUITO BITS® is recommended. Dunks will then suppress larval development for up to 30 days or more. Some larvae which hatch after dunk application may partially develop before dying. Allow a minimum of 48 hours for their control.
Pre-Flood treatment: Apply one (1) MOSQUITO DUNK® to each 100 sq. ft. of containerized surface which is known or suspected breeding site when flooded.
Evaporative Coolers: Apply one (1) MOSQUITO DUNK® to each 100 sq. ft. of Cooler box or for smaller Coolers refer to the table below for applications rate.
SAFE FOR USE IN FISH HABITATS
Outdoor Use around the Household to kill Mosquito Larvae: MOSQUITO DUNKS® can be broken into portions for use in many outdoor applications near the household, such as containerized standing water in bird baths, old automobile tires, rain barrels, abandoned or unused swimming pools (particularly above ground types), tree holes, roof gutters for collecting rainwater, flower pots, animal watering troughs, or water gardens. MOSQUITO DUNKS® can be broken and used as shown in the following table, the amount dependent upon the surface area of the water in the treatment site.
Surface Area
of standing water
1 to 5
square ft.
5 to 25
square ft.
25 to 100
square ft.
Above 100
Square ft.
Use quantity
¼ Dunk
½ Dunk
1 Dunk
1 Dunk
per 100 sq. ft.
Preflood treatment around the Household: Apply MOSQUITO DUNKS® to any containerized target site listed above which is known to become flooded after rain. Use the correct amounts in accordance with the above dosage table.
INDOOR USE: For use in areas that collect water from time to time, areas such as elevator shafts, basements that flood, sump pumps and any drainage areas within buildings. Use the correct amount in accordance with the above dosage table.
U.S. Pat. No. 4,631,857 Patented in Canada, 1987