Complete beginner questions

[ehickey]

Hello all,
My wife and I just bought a lovely house, complete with goldfish pond, so I am trying to get educated quickly. The previous owner went over some basics with me, but I have lots of semmingly dumb questions.
The pond is approx. 1,000 gallons, and we have approx. 15 goldfish (I don't know what kind), most of them small, several babies. The pond flows into a small (60 gal.) lower pond, where the pump is located. The system seems to work well, though I am surprised how much water evaporates daily (we live in Philadelphia). The water is pumped through a filter (I need to learn more about the filter).
Okay, here are the newbie questions!
Besides bugs, what do these fish eat (self sustaining pond, with several healthy looking plants in it, frogs, etc.)? I see them munching on plant and leave matter that falls into the pond. Is that all? How do I tell if they are getting enough food - I don't know what a healthy goldfish looks like.
Does the filter adequately clean the waste from the water? I wonder about all the waste never getting cleaned out - how does this happen (I probably should know all this from high school science classes!).
Is the size pond adequate for 15 or so fish - most small? There are numerous babies, but not sure what happens in a year.
Any advice on these topics or things I need to focus on at the beginning would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[Esther]

Some of your questions will be answered by your just reading similar posts. You will get different answers from different people depending on their experiences so don't panic if we seem to dissagree on many issues. What works for one ponder doesn't work for others. Now you are panicking---right??? LOL

You will be scooping crud off the bottom because not all of it makes it to the filter even if there is a bottom drain which I suspect there isn't. But this is not a bathtub in your master bath. Fishies don't care. You will be surprised at what goldfish can survive in. Now I'm not saying not to keep it relatively clean but don't obsess over it. I clean my filter media when the water is having trouble getting through it or if the water looks like it is getting thick. LOL. Sounds like yours is pretty clear and you are fortunate if that is so. We ponders get kinda cranky when the stupid water turns green and stays that way.

I lined my skimmer net with a fine mesh fabric like they use for ballerina tootoos. I just used fishline and layed the
mesh in the net and began looping the fishline around the metal frame while pressing the mesh into the entire net. When it was done, I tied it in a knot and the net picks up crud better. Opps just happened to think that maybe you don't have a net. I bought a kids play net from the camping area in my local Meijer store. I then attached it to an old metal hollow broom handle by pushing the wire handle of the net up into the handle. Then I filled around the wire with JB Weld to hold it in the handle. Or you can get fancy and purchase an adjustable handle from a spa store with a net. I like the front edge of my net to be flattish, not rounded. But you'll make do with whatever you have and maybe you'll like different than me.

Some folks don't feed their goldfish but I would guess that most do. Pick up something from your local pet store or pond store. I like the floating type. Most goldfish food is flakes but maybe there is pellet type too. You don't want to give them more than they can consume in a few minutes. I have trouble with fish food being sucked into the filter/skimmer. Sometimes I turn off the pump and sometimes I put a hose with the stream going in front of the filter/skimmer to keep the food away. If you give them too much food, they don't eat it all and it fouls the water. Not only that, the more the fish eat, the more they poop and the more the filter fills up.

The more fish you have, the more waste there'll be and then the water becomes yucky so you don't want to get to over populated. And goldfish seem to multiply like rabbits. So good luck. Somewhere there is an actual way to determine how many inches of fish per square foot. Somebody will tell you on this thread.

Good luck as you stumble your way through becoming an experienced ponder/watergardener. Welcome to the group. Oh you didn't put what zone you were in. Am assuming pretty warm. But go to your profile and add the zone so we can give you better advice.

UM you mentioned water evaporation. Is it possible there's a leak? Or are there any plants leaning over the edge where the water could be following the plant up and out of the pond? Or is there much splash anywhere? Forget if there was a waterfall. You have to start thinking like a drop of water. "Now how could I get out of this pond?" LOL

[Jerry]

Esther sure covered the topic well.
One member, MIKE W. has godfish only.  Guess what he feeds them?


NOTHING!  they do fine as in nature.
Welcome to the site! An old philadephian here.

[Julles]

Yes, welcome!  Oh, and please DO go put your location (at least the state) on your profile, 'cause it helps us know your area climate and conditions.

Photos - we love photos!  Also, it would help us to know how to answer your questions if we could see a pic of your pond, filter, etc.

I agree with Esther about the possibility of a leak.  Your pond shouldn't need filling every day.

Most filters need to be cleaned.  That usually involves taking something apart, and then rinsing out the medium inside.  In mine, it's a sort of mesh that catches the solids (poop and bits of plants), which will need to be rinsed off with a hose, or swooshed in a bucket of water (which you can use to fertilize your plants).  Then rinse the material in pond water before putting back in your filter.

That's because your filter also has "good bacteria" in it, which help consume the other waste from the pond, chemicals like amonia and nitrates, etc., that are not trapped in the mesh medium.  Chlorine from the garden hose could kill off that bacteria, which you don't want to happen, so rinse in pond water to get rid of the chlorine.

You can't see the amonia and other such stuff building up in the pond, but it does need to be removed, so be SURE your filter is removing both solids and chemicals.  Sounds like it is, because everything is working and your fish are healthy.

Yes, you can get pelleted goldfish food.  It comes in sizes suited to different size fish.  I can't imagine not feeding my fish every morning - it's part of the fun!  Of course, my 1000 gallon pond is so overcrowded that there is no way they could find enough to sustain them.  Besides, it's so much fun to watch them, especially the koi, who are ROWDY!

Koi are lots of fun, but they are "dirty" fish, meaning they poop a lot, so maintenance is more of an issue.  It's also very overstocked with fish, as I'm like many of us and just can't resist buying a pretty new one.  I clean my filter at least once a week, and these days I'm cleaning it 3x a week.

In that bottom pond, if there are no fish, perhaps you can keep some water lilies.  Those, too, become addictive. 

[landey1230]

Welcome to the site.   

[ehickey]

Thank you everyone for your advice.
Sorry I did not thank you sooner but my life has been crazy - moving from house in Mass. to apartment in Philadelphia to house in Philadelphia in 5 months, dealing with packing, contractors, job search, etc., etc. Anyway.
Here is what I  have figured out - there is no leak - the water loss was from water leaking out over the liner (was hard to see this as pond is lined with slate on top of the liner edge, that hangs a few inches over the water), which I kept adding to as the lower pond (water flows from big upper pond to small lower one) water level kept going down. I have experimented with diffferent water levels and flow rates and I think I am pretty close to where I need to be.
Feeding the fish is a blast! Most of them let me handle them a bit under the water while I feed them. I have added 2 more lilly pad plants (?) to give them more cover, and tehy seem happy.
Here is latest question: after I cleaned the filter and got things running a lot better, the water was still pretty murky. Then we got the tail end of Gustav last weekend, maybe an inch or two of rain, and now the water is VERY clear! So while this is good, I am trying to figure out why it happened. Is this likely a PH or other balance issue? The volume of new water relative to existing could not be the answer, so the chemical balance must have changed? Any ideas?
I will try to post some pictures soon but I am a techno-phobe. Oh, and I have more like 2 dozen fish - about 7 black ones I did not know about! I don't know if these are goldfish or not.
Thanks for your help - Ed.

[Esther]

Shhhh Ed. When your water clears, don't question the how and why. Just act like you made it happen intentionally and know all about it. LOL. Some of us have green water and don't know why because we've never had it before and haven't been doing anything different. Then there's the rest of us who have clear water and don't seem to be doing things the way we've been told to and noone knows why we have clear water. LOL

I would say that most of us don't worry about PH at all. From what I undestand for the fish, it's better that the water PH stay consistant than have us dosing it to raise or lower it all the time. It's not a pool after all. As for the murky water, keep filtering and scooping crud off the bottom and eventually it will clear up. And about that time, it'll be winter and you'll have to shut it down. I don't remember where you are so maybe you won't be shutting yours down.

Glad you found the place your water was escaping. Sometimes it can be a real pain. Been there, done that. The dark colored fish, are they black or a dark brown. Sometimes the Koi and goldfish  can be that dark brown but can also change color eventually. Some stay that color.

[miguynmkoi]

Welcome Ed!

First of all the black goldfish may turn color to what the other fish are (assuming they are goldfish) now.  I don't have a rain situation here so can't answer you there.  Plus I never check chemical levels in my water 

But I do know it takes time for the water to settle after cleaning and filling (dechlor tap water if you use a large percentage to add or change).  It's all in the patience you have to see gradual change.

Feeding your goldies is fun but they can sustain themselves in a good environment with algae and bugs (especially dratted mosquitoes).  Remember to not feed them when the water temp goes below 50* (I think that is the correct temp).

Do you know how deep your pond is?  You may have over-wintering issues you can read up on in other threads (don't have a problem with that here either   ).

Everyone above have great advice.  Most importantly...enjoy your pond!!  That's the best advice!

[Julles]

My pond, too, for some reason, will be really clear after a rain.  No clue as to why.  Hmmm... wonder what it will be like after Hurricane Ike hits Saturday.

Your dark fish are probably babies from the stock in your pond.  Like others said, they may well change to gold as they age.  If not, they are sorta useless, IMO, because you can't see them.  I just fished out a black koi whom I have had several years, and gave him to a gal with a rescue operation, because I couldn't see him.  Why have a fish contributing to the poop and amonia, etc. load if you can't see him to enjoy him.

All this does not explain, however, exactly WHY I went and bought a large Black Moor goldfish just Monday.  I haven't seen him ONCE!

Also, FYI, because many people don't revisit a thread once they've red it, when you have a new question or topic, it's a good idea to start a new thread with a title describing your topic.  That way people will notice it, and you're more likely to get responses and answers.

[PondmaninAL]

Annette, I have two big beautiful goldfish in my pond. I hope they don't change color. They have the big flowing tails.

Welcome to American Ponders, Ed.

Happy ponding,
Scott

[lorraine1960]

welcome to out obsession !!!  i feed mine floating sticks they love them...every now and then i give them some treats...you can purchase them in fish food they like veggies and fruits...in winter stop feeding them...i have pea pebbles in the bottom of my pond and i have a fountain with pump,waterall with its own pump(not always on) and a bio-filter that splashes in the pond on its own pump..and they feed off the bottom also....just let nature do its thing as it evidently has already been doing before you moved in....you will have a blast on this sight and learn alot from its members..............       ....lorraine

[miguynmkoi]

Hey Scott!  I have what I thought were two beautifully colored red sarassas (sp) for over 8 years that suddenly turned white within a year.    the transformation was ugguullyy!  They almost had red skeletal markings before turning white while I was away for a week.  Big Red, fishy's name, is no longer red.  They are now totally white.  What happened?  Big shrug on that one. 

[ehickey]

Thank you everyone, this information is very helpful.  Ed

[RWinn]

I have 2 black moores in my pond one of them just finished turning orange and is now getting a white area on its back. The other is just starting to turn orange

[PondmaninAL]

Oops! That was suppose to read,"Two big beautiful BLACK goldfish." My hands weren't listening to my brain.

Happy ponding,
Scott

[Philly Bill]

Greetings! I live in Philadelphia as well, and you should check out Aquatic Connections in Trevose/Feasterville.  They give terrific free seminars on pondkeeping basics from time to time - you just missed a great one last month. The next session is 9/24 on lighting, and they always have one in October or November on preparing for winter that you shouldn't miss.

There is also a local club that has just formed which meets regularly and goes on field trips.

Links are on my blog. Just shoot me an email if you have any questions about local resources for plants, fish or supplies.

[ehickey]

Thank you Philly Bill, I will email you. So far things seem to be going well with my pond and 24 or so goldfish, but I am a bit nervous about the winter, so I will go to the seminar on preparing for the winter - thanks again. A local (to me) pond/fish store I have gone to is The Ponds and Gardens of Limekiln. They seem knowledgable and are very nice.

Also, hard to be sure, but I think the black fish I had mentioned earlier are dark brown and one may be turning gold (orange) as someone had suggested.

Thanks again everyone.

[Esther]

There is a tutorial on our sub forum that I wrote a while back on winterizing simple ponds. It is not for a closed system and I don't think you have one. If you read through it and attend the seminar, you'll know everything you need to know. It's more of a pain that difficult.