Author Topic: Waterfall on or off for winter? (Read 2616 times)

pegs pond · « **on:** October 10, 2008, 10:24:38 AM »

Can't decide so thought I'd ask your opinion before it gets to freezing time. Pump is 5000 gph and have 3 waterfalls and stream about 24 ft long (from 3 inches to a foot deep) 2 inch flex pipe and a run of plain pvc pipe up the hill....none is below freeze line....some only a couple of inches down. I don't THINK it will freeze if left on as there is a lot of water movement. We do get some days that it doesn't get above freezing......last year quite a few! What do ya think? If it was yours what would ya do?
Thanks Peg

tranquility · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2008, 12:38:40 PM »

I leave my pond with the falls going year round...Its never hurt a thing....
Lawanna

marla · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2008, 10:09:51 PM »

not knowing where you are I'm not sure. The only thing I'd worry about is the stream freezing up and ice daming everyting, but you sound as if it doesn't get to cold. Here we shut off, gets way to cold and I think it would cool off the water even more then it already gets, and this way I don't have to worry about ice dams and dissappearing water, and it saves some on the electric bill.

tracey_shafer · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:01:51 PM »

Peg we keep the waterfall on all winter but ours is just into the pond and we keep a very close eye on it. If you can re-rout the falls for winter so it is not running thru the entire line and risking freezing the lines and emptying your pond in the middle of winter it would be safer.

lorraine1960 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:33:18 PM »

I turn everything off and cover my pond with a net.... lorraine

Indiana Karen · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2008, 02:26:15 PM »

Our pump has ran year round for nine years with no problem. We also have a stream and waterfall.
We are in zone 5.

Karen

fredinva · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2008, 05:37:39 PM »

Peg,
There is really no reason to let it run during the winter. Sure, it may look nice with a little ice around the edges.
But all you really need is a bubbler to keep a hole in the pond surface.

note of experience: if the power should go off, and the outside temp is low, you risk the possiblity of splitting a line/cracking pvc pipe. (no fun to reinstall new pipe and fittings)

fred

Esther · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2008, 06:42:08 PM »

Why pay to run a pump all winter when it isn't necessary? But if you choose to, watch it closely so that the ice doesn't make a dam and cause the water to go where it shouldn't. I didn't notice where you were located but I think the colder your region is, the less you'd want to leave the waterfall going. I turn my pump off and put it in the basement. But I have a homemade deicer that does the trick with a 75 watt bulb in it. Others use bubblers or small pumps laying just below the water level to keep a hole in the ice.

pegs pond · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2008, 11:22:27 PM »

Ohhhhh thanks all, especially you Fred! Gosh I had not even thought about power outages! That made up my mind for sure to shut it down! Now when do you do that? nights are freezing now. I am zone 5. I also hadn't thought about "ice dam" so thanks to all. Gosh this is such a wonderful site! You all are super!
Peg

Esther · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2008, 07:33:05 PM »

It's kinda up to you Peg. I have been jerking the pump when the ice starts to form on the waterfall but it really doesn't matter once the ice forms on the pond I would think. Last winter, we shut the pump down a lot later than the winter before. It just didn't get cold as quickly.

I kinda hate leaving the Skippy dirty all winter but I'm too lazy to clean the floor scrubber pads outdoors when it's that cold. So I just leave it all in there and power wash the stuff in the spring when it begins to warm up.

I dread next spring/summer. My marginals that were started on the shallow ledge, just stuck under rocks have all gone crazy and are trying to take over Michigan. Some have jumped the liner and are growing in the soil alongside. There is a round flat bottom preform about 2' across in one spot near the waterfall that had yellow irisis, cattails, and bogbean. The three plants were just stuck in that preform in their landscape pots. They all jumped their pots and have imbedded themselves inside of that preform so they are a solid mass. Or should I say mess? The only way we can get them out would be to hack them to pieces I think.

crazyfishlady · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2008, 08:23:16 AM »

I am in zone 5 also, we shut down last year about Thanksgiving.
We had snow cover on the pond most of the winter and by Christmas the bubbler wasn't enough to keep a hole in the ice. Bought an inexpensive stock tank heater at TSC that really did the trick.
One caution, if you have fish, provide them with secure cover. I had fish disappear over the winter. Theory here is that mink go through the hole in the ice and the sluggish fish are easy prey. I have black milk crates (file crates) on the bottom with rocks to cover and hold them down.

pegs pond · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2008, 12:35:22 PM »

Thanks, will shoot for turning off Thanksgiving. Luckily I DO have a place for the fish to go! I put a plastic shelf in there to hold all my marginals for winter, so I can get them easily in the spring. It has a space under it and the fish hide there. With all the plants on it (and they are in the net pots) it would be VERY hard to push it over or get under it. I have been looking at heaters and will order one soon and was thinking of getting an aerator too. Better safe than sorry. Just posted completed photo of pond on the pond construction area "newbie needing input...photos enclosed" If ya want to take a look. The area with the Iris sticking up is the shelf. It's one level of one of those plastic shelves with the slat/holes in it and we cut the legs to level it...worked out super!
Peg

Esther · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2008, 07:34:19 PM »

Peg, when choosing a deicer, compare power usage. Some of them really take a lot of wattage to do what my 75 watt light bulb uses. In years past, I have heard a lot of people complaining that their stock tank heaters have been sinking. I don't know if that is still going on or not. Also I don't know the brands that seemed to be the problem. Good luck.

tracey_shafer · « **Reply #13 on:** October 15, 2008, 10:48:42 AM »

I know we use stock tank heaters for the outside ponds and they pull so much power I can not run the vacuum in the winter. (not that I mind most of the time

)

Cindi · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2008, 07:06:44 AM »

I use a bubbler (aerator) for a better share of the winter months. February sometimes can be very brutal with all the wind and snow that the bubbler has a hard time keeping up so during those times I will use a deicer as a back up method. The bubbler only uses about 5 watts of power and the deicer uses 100 watts. Here are links to what I have.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+9326+14444&pcatid=14444

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+7660+8557&pcatid=8557

tracey_shafer · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2008, 09:24:20 AM »

I should find a way to set up the bubblers, I already am running a outdoor airpump and have the air line, now I just need to figure out something for the high density styrofoam float. Oh Esther?

Esther · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2008, 04:39:08 PM »

UM, I am using pool noodles to float my deicer box. I just zip tied it to the box. Hey, what about a styrofoam swim ring?? I might have either or both out in the pool shed. We just started putting the summer stuff away today so I can still get at it. The kids never play with the noodles much. Maybe a couple at a time and I think there's 4 out there. Pretty sure there's a ring there too. Give me a hollar.

tracey_shafer · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2008, 05:58:53 PM »

It sounds like a good idea, now we just have to figure out how run the 02 thur it so it will not freeze up in the pond.

pegs pond · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2008, 11:34:06 PM »

Thanks for the tip Cindi, I was looking at both of those at Drs Foster and Smith. The deicer says for 1000 gal and my pond is over 3000, do you think just one would work? They are just to keep a hole open aren't they? Now Esther and Tracey please explain? The aerator/bubbler line can freeze? This heater that Cindi recommends only uses 100W and floats. I am feeling pretty stupid right now as I thought you just put the bubbler in and it kept a hole and if it didn't the heater did?
Peg

crazyfishlady · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2008, 06:18:14 AM »

You're right, the deicer keeps a hole in the ice. I used a bubbler initially and it did freeze up; apparently they need to be insulated and the hose insulated and kept dry and they really are a pain.

I had much better luck with this inexpensive deicer:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_34418_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1

We go to Texas for the winter and need something we can have confidence in. The fish don't need extra oxygen at freezing temps -- they do need to have a hole in the ice to let gasses escape.

I used the bubbler this summer when our electricity was out for four days. We could run it off our car batteries, I wouldn't be without one. But, for winter not the best.

Cindi · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2008, 08:52:16 AM »

I've used the bubbler for 2 winters and have not had any problems with my line freezing up. I have the actual aerator pump in a plastic box with slits cut into it for air exchange. From what I understand exposing the pump to the elements is what causes the lines to freeze. I then put the box under my filter cover (which is wood). My pond is about 2000 gallons and the actual diecer works just fine....it only needs to keep a hole in the ice. As I said before, the deicer is the back up to the bubbler. There are some mornings I have to go out and lightly push on the ice that has formed over the bubbler hole, but it breaks real easy. Once it gets to the point where I can't push on the ice then I start up the deicer. I wish I had some pictures of my set up, but I don't. I will have to take some this winter I guess.

Esther · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2008, 12:28:50 PM »

I never used a bubbler so don't know first hand. I have heard that a shell of ice will form over the top of the bubbler area at times when it gets real cold. I have also heard that it is easy to have ice form in the tube. But again, that is hearsay. I only use my DIY deicer with a 75 watt light bulb and have never used a purchased deicer.

pegs pond · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2008, 01:12:27 PM »

Esther can you explain how to make the deicer with light bulb please?
thanks Peg

Esther · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2008, 03:53:51 PM »

http://www.americanponders.com/forum/index.php?topic=975.0 There's what mine is like.

Folks don't forget to check out the sub forums. There is a lot of info there for you. In fact there is a description of what to do to shut down your pond for the winter in the tutorial section that I wrote a while back based on what I do.
http://www.americanponders.com/forum/index.php?topic=1019.0\