Author Topic: Winter feeding? Water changing?  (Read 3764 times)

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Offline PBSJones

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Winter feeding? Water changing?
« on: December 24, 2008, 11:13:18 AM »
I've seen instructions that say not to feed one's fish in the winter.  I am in a warm clime (Sacramento), although it's been ice-in-the-bird-bath cold the last two weeks.  I did stop feeding Freckles and Dave Brown (two koi) about a week ago, since they don't seem to be eating, but I don't want to starve them.

Also, since said fishies are not eating, do I still do the weekly water exchange?  I'm sure it certainly can't hurt, although the water that I'm putting into the pond is probably colder than the water I'm taking out.

The fishies seem perfectly happy to snuggle in the gap between the filter/pump and the potted plant.

Offline Julles

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2008, 03:08:49 PM »
I'm in Houston, and temperatures have been bouncing between the high 70's* and the 40's*, with a hard freeze thrown in here and there.  Most years, it's fairly temperate.

My fish seem to want to eat most of the winter, at least when it's in the 50*-70* range.  But I feed them less.  If it's really cold (40's*), I'll stop feeding 'til it warms up.  There's usually enough algae to be found in the pond that they can keep themselves satisfied 'til it warms up.  Mostly, when it's cold, they don't move much, and therefor don't burn many calories or need much fuel (food). 

I still clean my filter each week.  I find there is enough gunk accumulating in it, partially due to fish poop, but also leaves falling and decomposing, etc.  And, two weeks in a row, leaf debris has slipped past the pre-filter on my pump and caused partial clogs, so I've been taking the pump apart each week to clean it, too. 

I don't know about the water change.  Seems like too much stress to me, on fish who are already stressed by cooler temperatures, and not at their peak, due to being cold and semi-dormant.  They're also not eating / pooping as much, so they're not creating the toxins that are the reason for water changes in the first place.  I would hold off on that.

Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2008, 03:56:10 PM »
I'm in Florida and feed around 4-5 times in Winter.
Summer is 6-9
 :o
Thanks,
Rich

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2008, 05:57:29 PM »
Once we get a freeze here in my part of Florida, the fish stay at the bottom and won't come up looking for food until the water warms back up for a while. That is usually 2-3 weeks. When it's warm, I usually feed the koi and other fish once a day but after seeing a two year old koi at 30", come Spring, I'm feeding the koi more often. That koi was at a guy's house that shows his koi and feeding them often was his secret. To sum it up, I don't feed the fish or intentionally change any water in the Winter.
Happy ponding,
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Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2008, 05:28:06 AM »
No 2 year old koi at 30". Forget the record size but i was between 23-26" grown by Momotaro in one of his monster ponds...
Thanks,
Rich

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2008, 06:17:31 PM »
Saw it with my own two eyes, Rick. This guy is a friend of mine and wouldn't lie to me. My wife saw it as well. It's all in the feeding. He also didn't feed it any color enhancing food so it was purely a black and white longfin. I don't know the Japanese name for it. I can give you his email address or you can get it from www.pondhoppers.org which is the site for the Gainesville Koi Club. His name is David Hardcastle.
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Offline reddad35

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2008, 08:20:18 PM »
Rick, Honestly do you think your barbs are productive? I have seen you take short stabs on many topics. I have not seen the point of any of them. Give evidence of how a fish cannot grow that big. When it comes to someone liking something and you do not for any reason there is no point in telling someone that is proud of what they have accomplished how it doesn't meet your standards. Remember the name is american ponders it is not american we have done it all and are the best and everything we say is exactly what is science. Your experience is vital but is should be shared in a manner that is constructive to other members. If you have fabulous fish and you want to share them or sell them do so. If you have fabulous fish and someone else shares theirs please don't tell them their fish suck. Do me a favor and post your lilly you have growing in your mega pond. I bet someone will come on here and tell you it is attractive. I bet if it really isn't someone will try to help you make it attractive. I bet no one except you would say it sucked or was subpar.

Offline Esther

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2008, 06:26:19 AM »
Your fish will tell you if they want to eat or not. When my water temps get around 55-50, my guys begin to not show interest in food. Even if I put food there, they don't come up.

Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2008, 06:58:28 AM »
'Thought I already had posted hear...
But its physically impossible. What most likely happened was he was misinformed of the kois real age. Here is a link to the record held by Momotaro. http://www.koi.lu/momotaro-pond.pdf
Thanks,
Rich

Offline Julles

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2008, 07:23:20 AM »
That's an interesting link.  Man, talk about covered ponds!

I also liked the line, "There are no cheap fish here."   

Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2008, 07:50:30 AM »
personal achievements
Amongst Momotaro's achievements,
they have so far produced the
biggest Tosai (yearling of 55cm),
Nisai (73cm), Sansai (about 84cm),
Yonsai, and Gosai koi! The koi
So the BIGGEST 2 year old EVER produced was 28". Thats a 1 time thing also and that koi will never be offered for sale...
So it is Impossible for him to won a 30" 2 year old fish.
Thanks,
Rich

Offline Esther

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2008, 11:33:34 AM »
Boy I'm glad mine don't grow that fast. I suppose that the ones grown in Michigan conditions couldn't ever grow fast because of them shutting down for the winter. I do know the winter I brought them into the aquarium, they did grow a lot. That's when I realized I couldn't winter them inside another year and had to make a larger pond for them.

Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2008, 12:27:27 PM »
Another problem with growing them that fast is they loose there quality withing 5-7 years as if they were slow grown the quality would last 10+
Thanks,
Rich

Offline Esther

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2008, 02:28:33 PM »
Rick, do you have any idea why my Big BLue Koi started out mostly orange with some black and then a couple of years ago he went mostly black/blue and has a little orange on his belly. Guess I'm asking if you know why they sometimes change colors or the spots go away. Maybe that only happens with mutts.

Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2008, 02:58:54 PM »
Yes, I have a good idea on why it went away. The quality of the parents were most likely we and there for the color was not of a good standard. Thus making he koi loose colors and change like that... But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  8)
Thanks,
Rich

Offline JimMcD in SVAZ

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 04:20:00 PM »
I've seen instructions that say not to feed one's fish in the winter.  I am in a warm clime (Sacramento), although it's been ice-in-the-bird-bath cold the last two weeks.  I did stop feeding Freckles and Dave Brown (two koi) about a week ago, since they don't seem to be eating, but I don't want to starve them.

Also, since said fishies are not eating, do I still do the weekly water exchange?  I'm sure it certainly can't hurt, although the water that I'm putting into the pond is probably colder than the water I'm taking out.

The fishies seem perfectly happy to snuggle in the gap between the filter/pump and the potted plant.

I most certainly so not want to be rude, but weekly water exchanges really seem excessive.  Do you know what percentage of the water you're changing?  If you mean that you clean the pump weekly, no worries.
But if you're actually doing a whole lot of mainenance all the time, does it ever stabilize?  If you have to adjust pH constantly, it's probably due to micro-management.  When do you have time to enjoy the pond?

Happy New Year,
Jim McD
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Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2008, 04:36:01 PM »
I've seen instructions that say not to feed one's fish in the winter.  I am in a warm clime (Sacramento), although it's been ice-in-the-bird-bath cold the last two weeks.  I did stop feeding Freckles and Dave Brown (two koi) about a week ago, since they don't seem to be eating, but I don't want to starve them.

Also, since said fishies are not eating, do I still do the weekly water exchange?  I'm sure it certainly can't hurt, although the water that I'm putting into the pond is probably colder than the water I'm taking out.

The fishies seem perfectly happy to snuggle in the gap between the filter/pump and the potted plant.

I most certainly so not want to be rude, but weekly water exchanges really seem excessive.  Do you know what percentage of the water you're changing?  If you mean that you clean the pump weekly, no worries.
But if you're actually doing a whole lot of mainenance all the time, does it ever stabilize?  If you have to adjust pH constantly, it's probably due to micro-management.  When do you have time to enjoy the pond?

Happy New Year,
Jim McD

Not speaking for him but some people do this to obtain ideal water quality.
Thanks,
Rich

Offline Esther

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2008, 05:18:04 PM »
Jim, it is suggested that during warmer seasons that there be a 10% water change to keep the dilution evened out. IF you only replace the evaporated water, the gunk and bad stuff gets thicker and there goes your water quality. So when you take out 10% once a week, you are also taking out 10% of the bad stuff. I have no idea what happens in the winter when we don't do winter exchanges but here in Michigan, there is sporadic snowfall so I guess that puts the fresh water in.

Offline JimMcD in SVAZ

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2008, 08:59:56 PM »
All,

    My apologies for my ignorance.  Thanks for the explanation.  I've never before heard of anything like weekly water exchanges.  In central Pennsylvania, with a 1300 gallon pond I'd change out about 20% of the water a few times each Summer, and more than that amount at the beginning of the season.  Used barley straw to keep the algae down, and a home-made filter box with a waterfall to clarify the water.  The pH was stable, the fish thrived.  It worked very well for all seven years I kept the pond.  Hoping for similar results in southeast Arizona starting next Spring.

Again, thanks,
Happy New Year,
Jim McD



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Offline Esther

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2008, 07:03:45 AM »
I know Jim. After 7 years of fussing with a ponds and asking questions and reading pond forums, I have discovered that when somebody says "this must be done" there are always people who never heard of that or never did it and their ponds and fish are fine. I have never done an intentional water exchange. But there has always been a water loss maybe in my waterfall that makes me have to add water every other dayor so. But I'm too lazy to worry about it. Also from time to time I leave the hose running and the pond runs over. Luckily, we are on a well.

Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2008, 07:14:11 AM »
I know Jim. After 7 years of fussing with a ponds and asking questions and reading pond forums, I have discovered that when somebody says "this must be done" there are always people who never heard of that or never did it and their ponds and fish are fine. I have never done an intentional water exchange. But there has always been a water loss maybe in my waterfall that makes me have to add water every other dayor so. But I'm too lazy to worry about it. Also from time to time I leave the hose running and the pond runs over. Luckily, we are on a well.
8)
Thanks,
Rich

Offline miguynmkoi

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2008, 10:34:51 AM »
Hey PBS Jones!  I'm in SoCal and the temps have been hovering around the 50's during the day and 40's at night.  Haven't had a freeze, yet.  I'm not feeding my fish in my 2 ponds or the turtles in the outdoors aquarium.  None want to eat and when they do, as the temp may rise, I just feed them the winter food (wheat-germ).

For the past 8+ years of ponding I have never "changed" water.  I filter excessively, maybe, but never displace water to add water.  I do however fill water for water that has evaporated or loss from accidental water flowing out of pond  :o which happens very rarely, knock on wood.

Trying my best to save water in these climates.  But that's in my ponds.  :D ;)

Offline JimMcD in SVAZ

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2008, 10:50:18 AM »
Esther,

    Thanks for the kind words.   I'd always had an aquarium or two, so when we bought a house in the boondocks outside State College, Pennsylvania it just seemed natural to put in a pond.  I read a bazillion pages of sage advice, scoured the internet, and even bought video tapes.  After hand-digging my pond in a yard that could have been a quarry, I committed to enjoying the pond -- if got to be a pain in the hind parts I'd fill it in.  

    Had a large yard with many trees and plantings to tend, and a more-than-full time job, so spare time was a luxury.  Of course "enjoying the pond" did not include spending hours every day tweaking the water chemistry, or cleaning the filter, or rearranging the waterfall.  So I sorted through all the must-do's and generated a list of what I thought I actually "had to do".  The pond, plants, and fish thrived and gave us many hours of pleasure.

    My Bride had suggested placing the pond where we could look down into it from our second-story deck (marrying that Lady was the best idea I ever had).

     In Winter the pond would get 8 to 10 inches of ice, with an air hole kept open by an air stone.  Even after 7 years we were amazed to see the fish re-activate after being under the ice for months.

   The photo was taken at the end of the first Summer.  The 4X4 post at the left is the corner support for the deck.  All the rocks around the pond (limestone) came out of the hole, with a lot more rocks carried away (limestone and iron).

    We sold that place in August and were very happy that the new owner wanted to keep the pond.  Will start digging here late Winter with the hope of having fish in the water by late Spring.

Be well and be safe,
Jim McD
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Offline marla

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2008, 11:05:42 AM »
Jim, you had a very nice pond back in PA, I would have been so sad to have to leave a home that I had put that much work into.  Are you planning on doing this one also by yourselves or by a contractor?  How big will your new one be?  PBS Jones I don't feed my fish either as the water cools, as Esther says the fish will let you know and in winter with the ponds ice covered no way to feed them, they won't starve.  I do do waterchanges/vacuum on the ponds maybe twice a month in the summer but have never done any in the winter as some people still do.  Sometimes we tend to do to much to our ponds, some people because they enjoy doing it some because they think it's a neccessity, but they do take care of themselves once well established better then most think.
Adopt the pace of nature;
Her secret is patience.
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Offline Julles

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2008, 04:46:17 PM »
Rick,

Are you saying that show-quality fish only maintain their show quality for a few years?  After 7-10 years, a fish will no longer be able to compete, due to loosing color or form?


Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2008, 04:50:49 PM »
Rick,

Are you saying that show-quality fish only maintain their show quality for a few years?  After 7-10 years, a fish will no longer be able to compete, due to loosing color or form?


Ah, very good question :thumbup: It depends on how the fish is grown. In a cold climate such as Japan a fish slows down eating and therefore will NOT grow over the winter. So what they do is Heat there tanks and feed koi 4-5 times a day as in summer to reach massive size potential. This will rush a koi to grow and will therefore be at the peak of life within 4-6 years ready for a show. After about the 7th year it will head down hill. NOW, if you slow grow a koi it will be show ready within 8-11 years of age and the quality of the fish will remain for quite some time.
Hope you learned something
Thanks,
Rich

Offline PBSJones

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2008, 07:30:23 PM »
Thanks for all the info, guys!  This is my first pond, so I just treated it like the aquarium I used to have:  A weekly exchange of 10 percent of the water. plus replacing what evaporates in the 110 degree summer.  My pond is small, 50 gallons or so (not much bigger than an aquarium) and the fishies are small.  I know I'm going to have to build them a bigger home in the next year or so, since they grew so much over the summer; that tiny pond won't hold them for long!  They were 3 inches when I got them around April, and they're about 6 and 8 inches now.  They're so pretty! o(:-)

Offline Rick

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2008, 06:52:12 AM »
Thanks for all the info, guys!  This is my first pond, so I just treated it like the aquarium I used to have:  A weekly exchange of 10 percent of the water. plus replacing what evaporates in the 110 degree summer.  My pond is small, 50 gallons or so (not much bigger than an aquarium) and the fishies are small.  I know I'm going to have to build them a bigger home in the next year or so, since they grew so much over the summer; that tiny pond won't hold them for long!  They were 3 inches when I got them around April, and they're about 6 and 8 inches now.  They're so pretty! o(:-)
Welcome to the world of ponding  :welcome:
Thanks,
Rich

Offline lorraine1960

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2008, 08:31:08 AM »
i stopped about a month ago and turned off pumps,i wan the algae to grow so they can nibble as the temp rises and falls,i don't ever feed mine in winter or run anything,they will let you know when its time to eat,and yes they do settle to the bottom and when temp goes to 70's in winter they float up just to sun themselves but show no interest in food..lorraine
lorraine

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Re: Winter feeding? Water changing?
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2008, 09:55:29 AM »
I stop feeding during the winter because water temps drop too low...I do keep up my water changes...I do about 25-35% every 5 days thru out the feeding season and drop down to 25-30% every 7-9 days thru the down time---also keep up filter cleaning too...the water changes and filter cleaning help tremendously with the water quality---and it also pulls out the pheromones from the water so that you get better growth..This is only with my koi ponds---my goldfish ponds don't get sooo much comfort treatments thru the winter-I'm sure they probably should get better treatment--but, they are tougher fish than my koi are..Genetics play a big roll in your fish but, water quality does too.....
Lawanna
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