Author Topic: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!  (Read 3712 times)

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Offline Joyce

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Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« on: February 08, 2009, 08:26:39 AM »
Peace to all  ... Joyce



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Offline Lynda

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 11:33:04 AM »
That was from August 2008; not a current bill.

Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2009, 02:00:06 PM »
The Republicans want cheap labor the Dems want a one party system.  The church wants new members as do the unions.  What can be better than an uneducated electorate?

Calif is close to bankruptcy over the expense of immigrants, schools, hospitals housing , welfare.
One illegal was admitted to UCLA because of her struggle.  Nobel indeed, but her grades stink. Qualified Americans can not get in. >:(-
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Offline Craig

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2009, 02:33:59 PM »
<<Calif is close to bankruptcy over the expense of immigrants>>

And you have data to support such a claim?  What are you looking at in CA, a 20-25 billion dollar deficit?  I find it hard to believe it is all the caused by this one problem.

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Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2009, 03:21:52 PM »
Illegal immigrants are not the only problem to be sure, but the LA Times that does support amnesty, regularly has articles backing up what I said, in fact, my comments came from the LA Times.
I will watch for reliable stats, or you can seek them as well.
The UCLA story was this past week. Again, the Times.
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2009, 06:36:51 PM »
Illegals are certainly a problem here but I believe the vast majority of California's waste of money is due to the incompetancy of our legislators.  They love to make new programs and give away money to ensure re-election.  They love to increase the size of government......which again costs billions and helps ensure their re-election.  The prior governor loved to keep the unions happy in exchange for donations to his PAC (Political Action Committee) and we are still paying through the nose for those contracts.  The present governor is spineless.  He's not acting on the platform that got him elected.

With respect to the cost of illegals you will find arguments supporting both sides.  California politicians are afraid to honestly address the problem for fear it will hurt them politically.  There is no doubt though that illegals cost California billions of dollars even if only education and the criminal justice system (police, sheriff, courts, city/county/state jails) costs are considered.  Anyone who lives here should be able to see that. 

Here's an old estimate from 2004 relating to the cost of illegal immigration.  Why is this estimate old?  Like I said, politicians are afraid to address the problem.....  :http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-06-2009/0004968021&EDATE=
"WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- California state lawmakers now grappling with a $40 billion budget deficit were advised five years ago of the mounting costs of illegal immigration in the state. In 2004, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) issued a study of the fiscal cost of illegal immigration to Californians. At that time, the cost to the state's taxpayers was $10.54 billion a year. That estimate included the cost of educating the children of illegal aliens - both those illegally in the country and those born here - in K-12 public schools, emergency medical care, and incarceration of criminal aliens.

While these annual costs for illegal immigration have been steadily draining California's budget year after year, the costs have risen and are placing an even greater strain on the state's resources in 2009. The original 2004 cost estimate was based on an illegal alien population estimated at 2,900,000. Today, FAIR estimates California's illegal alien population has grown to 3,200,000, a 10.3 percent increase. As a result of both the continued growth in the illegal alien population and the higher cost of governmental services, the current fiscal cost outlays for the illegal alien population in California are now approaching $13.1 billion annually - more than half the projected shortfall for next year....
"

There are many factors not figured in to the real cost.  For example the areas where illegals live often have their own economy where they pay no taxes for purchases.

I love quoting a gal who illegally immigrated to Los Angeles and she then left LA for Kentucky because LA was too much like parts of Mexico where she had lived.  When interviewed in Kentucky by the LA Times a couple of years ago she said, "California is broken".  She was ahead of her time.  Just a few days ago a businessman said this:

"But the problem stems from more than a simple ideological split between the parties, said Jim Wunderman, president and chief executive of a business group pushing for a constitutional convention to revamp state government. "From our perspective, California is broken. We think that point is no longer debatable," Wunderman said in a statement released by the group, the Bay Area Council. "Day by day, evidence piles up demonstrating that California government is not only broken, it has become destructive to our future.""
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Offline bunny56lbc

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2009, 06:55:45 PM »

 
 >:(- >:(- >:(- {nono} {nono} :blowup: :blowup: :redx: :redx:

bonnie

Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2009, 10:14:23 PM »
No incumbent loses elections in Calif either. It is so gerrymanderd that reform is almost impossible.
Craig: here is some documentation.  this one is from Snopes
quotes from LA Times.
Yes we know that most come here for a better life. I would too..  Last time this topic came up I was called a racist.  Disagreeing with the open border crowd is just that. We can disagree and need not be attacked personally.
You can count on it though!         http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 10:21:07 PM by Jerry »
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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2009, 07:51:33 AM »
It's funny how easy one can be called a racist just because of an opinion they have.  It's almost as if being white I need to be sure to not have any issues with anyone of another race. 

A few years ago, I lived in a duplex that was basically a row of four units, all fed by the same driveway.  Some kid was always out there in the drive and I never really said much to him but often times he would have to be asked to move out of the drive so I could get by.  After a while, I tired of his attitude and probably rolled my eyes or shook my head.  You'd think that kids would know (he was approx 10-12 years old) to move when a car is coming, but not this kid.  One day he actually pushed his little sister in front of my car as I drove past.  I was going very slow and was able to stop, but amazed at him I hollered out what stupid move that was.  He hollered back that if I hit his sister he would sue me for everything I had (dumb kid...I didn't have much!).  Isn't it wonderful that he'd risk his sister's life so that he could try to benefit from it...at 10 years old, no less???

One day while leaving, he saw me pull out of my garage and he walked to the middle of the drive and just stood there bouncing a ball.  I paused, I waited, I finally got out of the car and asked him to move.  He gave me lip, called me a "racist hunkie" and told me to f-off.  I asked him what his problem was and he said he hated racists like me.  Just then, mom and her boyfriend drove up and she got out and asked me what the problem was and I told her.  She fired off at me, "well you don't need to talk down to him like that".  I said, "yes, I do...and maybe you should teach him a little about respect for his elders".  The boyfriend just sat there, told me "don't worry, man...I'll talk to them".  And I left.

The irony?  If I had shown the 'punk' some recent pictures of my family he would have seen me sitting between my two sisters-in-law with my arms around them both, and fishing with my brother-in-law, whom I always referred to as, simply, my brother.  We were very close and talked all the time (we live on different coasts).  They are the same race as the punk kid...but he thinks I'm a racist.

So...not liking the attitude of that kid automatically made me a racist, but had he been white I would have still had an issue with what he was doing.  How long should I sit there while the kid bounced the ball, looking over his shoulder at me, until I was justified in asking him to move?

Why is it that because someone is a different race we cannot dislike something that they do?  It seems that the race card is thrown way too often...so much that it's blinding people as to what the real problem is at times.  Of course, don't anyone jump the gun and think I'm referring to anything in particular other than the message I typed above...I just mean that it would be nice for people to realize that the kid was out of line - not because of his race, but because of his attitude.

Unfortunately, sometimes we can't even be nice to people, either.

I once stopped in a parking lot to let an elderly lady walk across to the post office.  She waved and thanked me.  Seems innocent, right?  Then my friend asked me why I stopped claiming he wouldn't have because she's (insert race here).  Later that day, I was telling someone about the situation and he said that the only reason I stopped was because she's (race) and I was using that situation trying to prove I wasn't a racist.  I didn't tell him to glorify myself, but because of the comment my friend made.  What the hell is wrong with people these days??? I stopped because she wanted to cross the lot and I thought it was a nice gesture.  If I didn't let her cross, I'd be a racist...but because I did I was a racist masking my true feelings???   It's pretty pathetic, sometimes....
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 07:56:13 AM by Blind 'Too »
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Offline Joyce

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2009, 08:12:32 AM »
Why can't we have white pride month?


Why do blacks keep on asking to be treated equally, yet keep on asking to be treated specially?

I agree Blind Too...I am so SICK and TIRED of the race trump card being thrown down ALL the time.  ::)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 08:19:15 AM by Joyce »
Peace to all  ... Joyce



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Offline karen J

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2009, 09:26:59 AM »
Have you ever seen the show "Bizarre Foods" with Andrew Zimmern? There was an episode that I think was very telling about our current situation. He was in Nigeria, eating foods that Nigerians eat. Fried bugs, intestines, etc. Several times during the show, he mentions how Nigerians are so friendly, love music, and are welcoming. "We are all the same" and "We are celebrating our similarities". But wasn't the whole premise of the show to demonstrate the differences?  If we were all the same, there would be no show.
 
That has been the PC notion that is destroying race relations. We are supposed to view everyone as being the same. We're not supposed to notice if someone is a different color of brown, and if we do then we're racist.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with race and everything to do with politics and US government policies that have pushed "class warfare".
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2009, 09:55:53 AM »
I had deleted the thread that implied i was a racist.  I now know I could have deleted and put it in our recycle forum. Available to Sean and me.
It is, it seems a common tactic of those on the FAR left and right to use this ploy.
Here we are defending ourselves for things we never were.
Here in LA our Mayor( Antonio Villagarosa) will be reelected I fear. He will get over 90% of the latino vote.  Is that racist?
 The guy will be Governor and has his eyes on the presidency.  A powerful guy with lots of support.  He was a gang mamber and failed the Calif bar exam 4 times..  He had an affair with Maria Salinas a TV reporter. (his wife to her credit, dumped him)  He will not debate any of his challengers.  A slap at the electorate in my opinion.
30 years ago he would have been history.
One astute radio guy, Doug Mcintyre said there are 2 classes in LA, the "Crony" class and the Tax payer class!
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2009, 03:05:48 PM »
Hey Jerry:  Maybe eBay will come to California's rescue by selling off all of the states knick-knacks and whatever...  :D  I just read that the former eBay CEO Meg Whitman has launched an exploratory committee to raise money for her to run for governator in 2010.  The "Golden State" may become the "It's For Sale State"......
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Offline Craig

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2009, 04:17:44 PM »
I read the now deleted thread and have no intentions of getting involved in a similar imbroglio, but I have problems with the facts and factors you have provided.

Did you read the rebuttals to the articles on Snopes?  They didn't exactly give them a big thumbs up, in fact, about all had some serious flaws. Including studies that disputed the claim that illegals have a negative impact.  If you got your wish and all illegals were repatriated tomorrow at the home countries expense, you have just lost yourself 13 million consumers and they do pump money into the economy, so pay at least sales tax and their spending results in taxable wages for others. and many have taxes and social security withheld that they then never recover and ends up in the gov't coffers, so you can kiss that money good by as well.
And  the Fairus.org piece includes the children of illegals born in this country....well they are legal US citizens so all that money needs to be factored out of the equation.

How is non-payment of taxes an illegal alien issue?  Any idea on how many legal residence, especially those dealing in cash, don't pay or underpay taxes?  Simple things, waitresses under declaring tips, contractors working on the side for cash, retailers skimming cash out of the registers...the list is really quite endless.  You mentioned ebay....how many ebay sellers do you figure actually file a 1099 for their revenues, Craig's List sellers?  Forum sellers.  To single out just illegals as being problematic is at least a touch xenophobic.

And a ten year old kid called you a name and you think that is an noteworthy?  What did Linkletter say..."kids say the darnedest things". 

And it is not that I don't consider illegal immigration that needs to be drastically addressed, but even if I took all of what was said at face value, California would still be nearing bankruptcy, so to say that it due to the expense of illegals is inaccurate.  And that was really my only point.  Nothing brought forth has substantiated that allegation.
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Offline Sonny

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2009, 04:36:07 PM »
How is non-payment of taxes an illegal alien issue?  Any idea on how many legal residence, especially those dealing in cash, don't pay or underpay taxes?  Simple things, waitresses under declaring tips, contractors working on the side for cash, retailers skimming cash out of the registers...the list is really quite endless.  You mentioned ebay....how many ebay sellers do you figure actually file a 1099 for their revenues, Craig's List sellers?  Forum sellers.  To single out just illegals as being problematic is at least a touch xenophobic.
I think we need to add a few cabinet/congress members to the list of non-taxpayers.   {:-P;;

Illegal immigration is an issue we need to address, no doubt.  But that problem will solve itself sooner rather than later with the direction our economy is going.

I swear, I'm getting so jaded and am losing faith in our political system.   >:(-
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 04:40:53 PM by Sonny »
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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2009, 05:44:05 PM »
Quote from: Craig
And a ten year old kid called you a name and you think that is an noteworthy?  What did Linkletter say..."kids say the darnedest things". 

It seems like you're just looking for an argument from anyone.  Yes, I do find it noteworthy that a ten-year-old who hasn't even learned the true meaning of prejudice has already begun showing hatred towards others based on the color of their skin.  It does concern me that a child has that sort of unprovoked anger...who teaches a ten-year-old to hate others like that?  His parents?  I know that NONE of my neices or nephews would be allowed to talk that way to another person, let alone towards an adult.  They are very respectful of others because their parents have taught them to be.  They don't see in colors nor judge by them, and none of my in-laws were allowed to talk that way either.  It starts at home, and your children are a reflection of you.

Now, if you want to quote Art Linkletter, try and remember that the comment "kids say the darndest things" refers to comedic utterances of children, not racial hatred and threats of lawsuits after pushing their younger sibling in front of a moving vehicle.
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2009, 10:10:46 PM »
Non payment of taxes is an issue period  Illegals have an underground economy, yes so do others.
My very liberal cousin visited us last year and found himself in what he thought was another country. His eyes are opening.
Besides, why give amnesty  to those breaking our laws when so many have been in line for years? They are seeking entry to our country the right way.
We import poverty and export wealth. English is taught in high Schools here as a second language!

edited today" Morning news, Maldef IS SUING A RANCHER IN AZ!  He IS TIRED OF HIS PROPERTY BEING USED AS A CROSSING, The plaintiffs are anonymous!  His cars were stolen, his place trashed.  when he improved his fences.  YOU cannot sue anonymously.
I think this thread is a dead end. Either side will NOT change  any minds.
I can give a ton of documentation, but it is out there if you are interested. Try Google.
I don't have the time to pursue this further
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 08:00:38 AM by Jerry »
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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2009, 09:03:13 AM »
I hear you Jerry, just because we have issue with the problem people it doesn't mean that we have a problem with ALL immigrants, or that you're looking the other way on other issues.  I have Mexican friends, and they are trying to become citizens the right way...and they feel it is their obligation to learn English.  Two of their kids don't even speak Spanish because they were born here and feel this is their home (America)

Where I work, we have a saying:  There is only one rule that applies to everything, all of the time.  And that rule is this: NOTHING applies to everything, all of the time.

The point is, stick with the issue and don't read too much into everything.  There are almost always exceptions, and most people use general comments to address a situation because the list of exceptions is not only time consuming but practically never ending.  If I say that illegal immigrants are leaving trash behind at our borders, of course I don't mean every single person who jumped a fence...I'm talking about the illegal immigrants who have left trash behind.  Take it with a grain of salt...
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2009, 12:17:33 PM »
Well said Michael.
My family immigrated from Mexico in 1928 !  Oh yeah after a wait of several years.
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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2009, 04:43:35 AM »
I think we've basically got two "races":  Those who race to work in the morning, contribute productively, deal with challenges creatively, and then go home and do it all again before bedtime.  Then we have those who race to the welfare line once a month and get all testy when the line is more than 3 minutes long.

If you're in the first group, we're gonna be good friends. :)
If you're in the second group, we're never going to be a good match, and no amount of sniping and puleing on your part will ever convince me you're anything but what you are.

Roark
You're just jealous because the Voices only talk to me...

Offline karen J

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2009, 07:59:31 AM »
I think we've basically got two "races":  Those who race to work in the morning, contribute productively, deal with challenges creatively, and then go home and do it all again before bedtime.  Then we have those who race to the welfare line once a month and get all testy when the line is more than 3 minutes long.

Roark

Well said!!!
I hope my daughter is learning something from this: she has a friend who has a cell phone, big screen TV with Bose surround sound, PSP, XBox, Wii, etc. YET they get food stamps and free lunches at school.
We, on the other hand, pay for our own lunches as well as the lunch of her friend, albeit indirectly. This family has an excursion van, a mini van, two cars, and a boat. Yet they live in subsidized housing. Go figure.
Karen
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Offline Joyce

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2009, 08:02:08 AM »
Amen, Roark!  Yup, only 2 'races' involved.  ;)  :clap:
Peace to all  ... Joyce



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It will never fail you.”
Frank Lloyd Wright

Offline Mikey

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2009, 08:49:09 PM »
The free lunch program is a MAJOR pet peeve of a teacher friend of mine......except here the kids get a free breakfast AND a free lunch.  Makes one wonder what the heck the parents are doing with the food stamps..... {:-P;;
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Offline Roark

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2009, 04:53:56 AM »
Call me a renegade, but I think the concept of having breakfast available at school is a good one.

Just get the kids who want to participate fed, and by "fed" I don't mean Poptarts and chocolate milk with Fizzies.  I mean real food (Total cereal, milk, a small glass of OJ, something with meat in it, a slice or two of fruit) that won't cause them to alternately bang into walls and then crash in a post-sugar-rush heap. 

Learning starts with nutrition. Empty stomach = empty mind.  And I think if you put a few "grown-up" chairs into the mix, you'd be surprised how many parents would join their kids.  Many working parents would welcome the idea of someone else doing the prep and the dishes.

But it should absolutely NOT be free.

Roark
You're just jealous because the Voices only talk to me...

Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2009, 08:34:21 AM »
in the same vein.  The state wants to release 50,000 prisoners because they have no funds for care!
Can you imagine what the crime rate will be?
Jerry
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2009, 09:21:31 AM »
I had forgotten all about that Jerry.  I remember transporting a shoplifter to jail and while en route I asked where he worked and he responded, "I'm on the County".  Translation: "I don't work.  I receive welfare."  I made some comment that he needed to get a job and his response, "What for?  Whenever you guys arrest me I get three squares a day and free medical."
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Offline Roark

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2009, 04:39:23 PM »
Re: 50,000 prisoners being released:
 
It's a tragic situation, but maybe California will re-consider their stance on weapons. :) 

Put another way: You turn 50K offenders loose in California and it'll be a grand media event complete with it's own "danger" soundtrack and talking spokes-heads.  Turn those same 50K offenders loose in MY town (in rural Texas, population 1600, hehehehe), and we wouldn't be calling it anything except "skeet without a bag limit".  Understand that every kid from about age 12 on up knows how to use a rifle... and generally owns more than one. 

Funny thing: the REALLY deadly guys are the grandfatherly-types sitting in rocking chairs on the front-porch and looking harmless.  They grew-up in an era where survival wasn't elbowing their way to the front of the welfare line.  Instead, it was spending some long, cold hours in a deer blind so you could feed your family the honest way.

Roark
You're just jealous because the Voices only talk to me...

Offline Jerry

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2009, 05:07:26 PM »
Yeah Rorak  I can't even buy a sword cane let alone brass nuckles.  I can get a sap cap that is like a sap but seems to be a baseball cap.
Check out the Bud K site.
i ASSURE YOU THOSE 50,000 CAN GET WHATEVER THEY WANT
Jerry
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Offline HOWELL

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Re: Can You Believe This...Proposed Amnesty Bill!
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2009, 05:18:58 PM »
Hey ya'll?
I have been away so long due to my hard studing. lol
Well college is so hard.
But then came back and found this again hahaha, lol.
Anyhoo lou dobbs is crazy, I would not trust him not even a bit.
BTW nice debate ya'll.
Scott I'll miss you buddy... :(

 

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